A Different World?

[Dave44]

Dave:

Bill did a great job with the summary. You've gone from simple posting into cup of coffee/beer at a bar territory. I've posted a bit about serial killers in the past. I'll see if I can dig any of it up. Make sure you are not confusing sympathy with empathy. Sympathy can be taught...

Crispin

Dave:

I found it. Good place to start. Oddly, Hvacker started both threads...let us continue this conversation in that thread. Poor Hvacker, we are always hijacking his threads...lol.

Respectfully Crispin,, The point I was driving at is to investigate the premise of THIS thread. I had hoped you would chime in,, But that thread has a different impetus?

 

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[Dave44]

Agree with Dr. "C"; WIFE has Developmental EMPATHY... BAD! ALL due to TRAUMAS in her life, makes it hard for her to "comfort" others, who are going through Trauma... she is BURNED OUT! Based on HER response, it is ALL about Pain & Suffering. Jewish AND Buddhist literature is MOSTLY about PAIN & SUFFERING; it is a mental/cognitive "thing" manifesting in PHYSICAL "results" (bad AND good); Victor Frankl is an example of good/positive "result" of the TRAUMA of the Holocaust.

BUT, Thanks to Crispin, He dug up THIS point that I made in Jan 2013. Now that does tie the 2 together, but it makes it extremely hard to follow.

I may be dislexic, as some state,, but to me that means I have to let go of one slightly different topic to drill down on the one that interests me more.

 

[Backbacon]

I spent thousands of extra dollars putting hurricane shingles on my roof after the last hurricane stripped my roof, they are wind rated 120 mph. Was I "waiting for the storm," or was I preparing for the worse incase it happens? I may never get hit by another hurricane.

People spend thousands on health insurance, car insurance, flood insurance, home owners insurance and never need it, your not buying it because you know your going to need it, you buy it only in case of the off chance a day may come when you do need it.....

It is called being prepared, it is called protecting your family because if you don't no one else will.....I prepare for the worst, pray for the best and still enjoy life.....




We will NOT go quitely into the night!

I agree with you I know about the extra expenditures when it come to the household and the insurance. We had a crazy hail storm pass through my camp and then through town so I got nailed twice, both properties. I was prepared and I agree with your last line 100%. I don't know about where you live, let's just say the local Police's response time isn't as soon as you pick up that phone to call for help, my family is protected.

 

[Backbacon]

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

"If you absolutely had none(empathy),, you would be a monster, what would regulate your behaviors?"

I would tend to think, one that is without empathy, their behavior may be predicated upon a reward/punishment system.
If it feels good, do it. Especially is there are no consequences or "punishment", as to having harmed others.
When there is no reward or punishment for bad or good behavior, anything goes, doesn't it?

If you constantly see(by example), ppl that exhibit bad or criminal type behavior, praised and lavished with attention, money, and power, one could exists without empathy, in a society that rewards the one without it. (I would think that would also indicate a breakdown in societal values, that what was once bad or criminal behavior, now becomes the societal norm). At one time in history, infanticide was considered horrible, but was accepted, same as the church torturing Christians, was accepted, and even today, in some countries female babies are killed, because they are not valued and that is THEIR norm.

It seems, much of our behavior is conditioned, by the acceptance or non-acceptance, of others.

(I'm trying here Dave, LOL! BB, meet ninjacat! LOL! I know, it was a feeble attempt, LOL!)

 

[Dave44]

Duke Nukem?

 

[Dave44]

Thanks PATkr!
I guess my thoughts are that empathy makes me feel for your plight, or your pain. If you were not able to feel the emanations another may have, you could do a lot of damage. HMM. I feel that the power of empathetic feelings would at least mitigate that damage? A natural moral boundary to inflict harm.

I tend to think that most people have empathy, Some are taught to ignore it through different techniques to either make the monster they need, or by accident.

Hmm. Any sense here? So what is it that makes one go out and say.. "I want to cause real destruction",, Not a blind rage burst, but in a long thought out unfeeling and callous way.

 

[Backbacon]

Duke Nukem?

Either Duke or a Dude from a older arcade game called Bad Dudes.

 

[Frankn]

Hay, It goes back and forth in this world. But the facts stand out. The more pressure you put on people, the more they react. Some even break down. The result is what you see. Look at our government now, forcing more control on our lives. The land of the free, we will see! Frank...

 

[Backbacon]

Empathy, empathy, empathy hmmmmm, probably has something to do with the anterior insular cortex of the brain.

 

[Dave44]

Hay, It goes back and forth in this world. But the facts stand out. The more pressure you put on people, the more they react. Some even break down. The result is what you see. Look at our government now, forcing more control on our lives. The land of the free, we will see! Frank...

View attachment 895304

This makes a lot of sense! Along those lines,, pressure is being applied, now more than ever! Are some people more susceptible( or sensitive) to the change in oscillation than others? Why does it seem the occurrences are growing? Will they be multiplying in the future?

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

I tend to think that most people have empathy, Some are taught to ignore it through different techniques to either make the monster they need, or by accident.

Hmm. Any sense here? So what is it that makes one go out and say.. "I want to cause real destruction",, Not a blind rage burst, but in a long thought out unfeeling and callous way.

Think of ppl that have really hard jobs. Prison guards, policemen, combat infantry, investment strategists/bankers/investors, sometimes within their jobs, they are required to hurt ppl. They may be a total pacifists(in their norm world), but sometimes a job can dictate that a person go "against his/her moral compass". This can give rise to inner conflict, in sometimes ppl cannot live with things they know they have done, in their compromising of morals. Some ppl are able to justify it. It is not easy to live, when you are divided within yourself.

The ones that plot, plan, and think out a way to bring destruction? That's a tough one...... My mind has difficulty just trying to go there.
I could only assume, it may be for reward or attention. Coupled with improper thought processes....... Total lack of love(positive perception) for their object of (negative)attention. A disconnect in cause and effect, how their actions will have consequences.

This makes a lot of sense! Along those lines,, pressure is being applied, now more than ever! Are some people more susceptible( or sensitive) to the change in oscillation than others? Why does it seem the occurrences are growing? Will they be multiplying in the future?

When the pressure is on, some ppl just having better coping mechanisms than others. They have usually practiced techniques, and trained themselves to not resort to impulse and emotion. It's kind of like learning patience, it usually doesn't just happen overnight, it is a process of living and learning(or training ones' self).

I believe these things occur, as an externalized problem of mans' internal chaos. Both individually and collectively.
Will these things multiply? If man does not learn to conquer and control his inner world, it will be difficult to conquer and control his outer world.

We have many books and studies on understanding the fundamentals of the mind, learning how to operate your brains, and all kinds of tips, tricks, and techniques to master our thoughts and actions. The sad part is, few care to know these things, which give long term pleasure and security, because it does not trip our 'automatic gratification" triggers.
It's boring, no NOW reward in it. We crave the endorphins and dopamine of what boosts our adrenaline NOW, with no thought of tomorrow, or how we are conditioning ourselves, to be adrenaline junkies.

Like someone that cuts themselves. They may not be thinking of the long term scars and implications of what they are doing. They are feeding off the momentary rush of brain chemicals. Just like someone that seeks death defying dangerous sports/hobbies, they are trying to feed off the chemicals it creates, and the feelings those chemicals cause. (could be the same with drug use).

(you may want crispin to show up soon, before I mess us all up!) LOL!

 

[Crispin]

Thanks PATkr!
I guess my thoughts are that empathy makes me feel for your plight, or your pain. If you were not able to feel the emanations another may have, you could do a lot of damage. HMM. I feel that the power of empathetic feelings would at least mitigate that damage? A natural moral boundary to inflict harm.

I tend to think that most people have empathy, Some are taught to ignore it through different techniques to either make the monster they need, or by accident.

Hmm. Any sense here? So what is it that makes one go out and say.. "I want to cause real destruction",, Not a blind rage burst, but in a long thought out unfeeling and callous way.

Dave,
The first line in red is the definition of sympathy. Sympathy is feeling for somebody's pain or problem. Empathy is actually FEELING the pain itself. Having empathy does not mitigate the pain and suffering of others unless one chooses to absorb part of that person's pain. Although empathy is not something that can be turned on or off; it is something that empaths can adjust the dial on so they do not burn out. To give you a recent example from a conversation with PTC that I had in person:

"Who is it that you have to talk to?" asks PTC.
"I have friends that I vent to...family." answers Crispin.
"Yes, but who do you have to really talk to when you are in need, at the level you need?" PTC responds.
"There is no one. No one can absorb what I see and deal with." answers Crispin.

At that point in time the conversation stopped because PTC gave me a hug and then grabbed my hand. She is a remarkable empath and absorbed part of the emotions and feelings I was experiencing. She chose to do that but not everybody has the skill. Words were of no more use. When she did that she did two things. The first was that she eased my burden and took some of my pain. The second was that she caused herself pain my absorbing mine. This is exactly why Bill told PTC to give me a big hug the second she saw me. Bill is an empath as well...and he is one that has absorbed some of my pain in the past and will again in the future.

Most people do not have empathy. You cannot teach somebody to ignore empathy. Empaths can learn coping mechanisms or they can isolate from others. We can dial it down at times but sometimes we instinctively react without choice. How we doing so far?

Crispin

 

[Dave44]

You are sympathizing with me Crispin,, but you are not actually FEELING what I said. I put Feel in there for a reason. And guess what, I put my explanation on the wrong thread because They are so similar I went to the other one.

I will also offer this,, Some think they are being picked on when a reply or post is typed out, because they are trying to read the others responses, and there is nothing to see. I have a very thick skin, it may come with age, I don't know. But some misread intentions in a reply because the language is not flowery enough?
I never, ever, learned to type. I try to make a point in the shortest amount of characters.(I am a dinosaur?)

I say this so that, in this thread, you will know I am not attacking. I hope Hvacker reads this post too.

 

[Dave44]

Actually Patkr( I have to find a short way to type your handle), I think I agree with your post,, I might have to read it a couple more times.
I am still trying to absorb Crispins post too though.

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

Dave, pat or ptc works just fine. Read and re-read. There are some books, I have read a dozen times, throughout life.
With each reading at a different stage in life, I am able to find meanings and lessons, that I may not have been matured enough in the past, to be able to understand.

Kinda like watching a movie again and again, you pick up on things, you may have missed, the first time around.
Do feel free to pm me anytime, if I may can be of help. You gotta realize, I'm a circle cat sometimes, too! LOL!

Wow crispin, I didn't really know, I did all that. I mean, I was sure hoping I was..... I know it's not always easy.......
Your words are very flattering. but more importantly, is the fact, I'm here for you man! We all need each other. Thank you, too!

 

[hvacker]

We probably don't need to worry about a person with the gift of empathy will ever go nuts with an assault rifle. Empathy IMO, is the mind of God.
For most of the rest we depend on legislation. We then will be left with the few that hurt the many.

Years ago I read a couple of books about Edgar Cayce the man that would go into a type of trance and cure people with visions. W/o comment about validity, if memory serves he was told in one trance that if he continued, the process would kill him. These gifts are not with out dangers but what else can one do when their nature demands using it.

I know of some that have empathy ( or something) for all living things but have a problem when it comes to people. Not much tolerance for their own kind.
Maybe they find other people a challenge, an entity creates situations they can't control. Some have fantasies about doing harm.

In dealing with the few that commit the killing I remember being in grisly bear country hiking and I had my jingle bells on my boots feeling ok. Then I realized how venerable I was against a griz. We know in most States we can CC and maybe have a sense of security. I don't think there is anymore security against a mass killer than the griz. They have the element of surprise.

 

[Red James Cash]

Try to do just what you said Red and get out and enjoy life a little bit.

What makes you think I dont?

 

[Backbacon]

What makes you think I dont?

Judging from your on-line activity and assuming that you actually read and watch everything that you post may lead one to believe that you don't get out much. Of course that is just an assumption.

 

[bill from lachine]

Pat,

If you're anything like me I believe it's more of an instinctive reaction than thinking it through like our buddy Crispin does
because of his training....

I know there was a point several months back when he was down in the dumps and I insisted he call me and have a chat....I just felt it was the right thing to do at the time to ease his pain.

You did the same thing by giving him a hug when you did.

Regards + HH

Bill

Dave, pat or ptc works just fine. Read and re-read. There are some books, I have read a dozen times, throughout life.
With each reading at a different stage in life, I am able to find meanings and lessons, that I may not have been matured enough in the past, to be able to understand.

Kinda like watching a movie again and again, you pick up on things, you may have missed, the first time around.
Do feel free to pm me anytime, if I may can be of help. You gotta realize, I'm a circle cat sometimes, too! LOL!

Wow crispin, I didn't really know, I did all that. I mean, I was sure hoping I was..... I know it's not always easy.......
Your words are very flattering. but more importantly, is the fact, I'm here for you man! We all need each other. Thank you, too!