accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

[ivan salis]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

the scatter pattern of the cannons helps to tells us the path of the storm * they were trying to go north to "escape" the storm --thus the straight line of cannons lost -- but were held back by the south blowing winds which were counter to what they needed (hard to sail north with southerly winds coming at you ) -- they could not turn south and go with the wind or go to the west -- which would place them in the path of the oncoming the storm -- the storm was to the right lower side (southwest) ---to the east was land -- so in effect they were "boxed in" -- with no where to go and no where to hide --so they tried as best they could by trying to ride it out ( which was all they could do really) - as it approached their location --one by one they got blown ashore , slowly but surely--

the records show that at the time of the storm st augustine took serious damage as well so the storm had to go north as well --logic says as it appoached land (after all the veseels were already wrecked --it turned northward -- running to st augustine --either over land or slightly offshore following the coast line ) hurricanes often run along the coast .

there are records of a big storm in santo domingo --one powerful enough that it flattened all the plam trees (so it had to have very strong winds ) -- there are several accounts of a "strong storm" at various locations ---signemups charting of the 1715 storm is very possible given known damage reports and scatter patterns of wreckage

 

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[GOHO]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

The scatter of cannons that you see above happened after the ship was already in many pieces. This scatter is in shallow water near shore and it shows how the wind rolled and tumbled the hull structure across the bottom and onto the beach. The Capitana started breaking up more than 3/4 of a mile farther out to sea than these cannons.....

 

[mad4wrecks]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

I remember in 92/93, Kane did quite an extensive survey in this area with the Dauntless. They had a system of spar bouys set up starting about the cannon/ballast area and heading to the southeast for at least a 1/2 mile or more.

 

[billinstuart]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

I would like to thank EVERYONE who has contributed to this thread. This has been/is a great discussion!

I'm especially interested in the possibility of a ship close to Stuart. I've spent time on the beach in the area of the power plant. Tommy Gore has an urn he found south of the power plant.

A couple nagging questions for me is...1) what affect do the storms have on the underwater artifacts? Are they moved significantly? I have personally picked a ballaststone on the beach after a hurricane .. 2) does the lack of coins/ballast at certain sites indicate that they were either heavily salvaged earlier or wrecked so close to shore the debris was washed to shore and salvaged?

 

[Salvor6]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

Hey Bill, I camped out at Sandsprit Park and dived off Stewart for lobsters (and treasure) almost every year since 1986. I found out 2 things; (1) the storms and hurricanes that hit the E. coast have spread shipwreck debris for miles along the shoreline. (2) The lack of artifacts at a certain site means that it was heavily salvaged at the time of sinking (especially if it was in shallow water) AND the debris was moved by later storms. Also if there is any ballast , modern day divers have picked over it. I never heard of any remains of the 1715 fleet being found that far south.

 

[OldGold74]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

Hey Greg maybe this is the term for your anchor? áncora de salvación ......

 

[itmaiden]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

Salvor, it is all in the research. I find a lot of TH's don't like to do the research, just the treasure collecting. As far as Ballast stones for that area debris. I know about the ballast stones and where they are at, but I'm not talking on this one.

itmaiden

Also if there is any ballast , modern day divers have picked over it. I never heard of any remains of the 1715 fleet being found that far south.

 

[billinstuart]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

Making note to self: Have Guido make IT an offer he can't refuse...............

You'll be singing like a canary in no time!

 

[itmaiden]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

IT is a "she" and "she" doesn't sing well. I do peep out a few notes now and then just to make the treasure hunting more fun and competitive to everyone. But this ....nada.
If I gave away all my secrets there would be no treasure left for me ! And you boys don't like to share. I've tested some people from this board already to see who is smart and who is trustworthy among other things. Some are just plain liars ! There are others I respect.
First impressions are usually right, but some TH's are fooled by others. There are no loyalties among pirates/thieves and TH's.

itmaiden

Making note to self: Have Guido make IT an offer he can't refuse...............

You'll be singing like a canary in no time!

 

[Sorroque]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

The "El Carmen"! Sunk off Rio Mar golf course 100V's.
Everybody is looking for the ships offshore.
It was or was it not,?, The El Carmen that was wrecked onshore and the entire contents were found onshore . If it was not the El Carmen, near the Regla, what was it?
It took 10 dumptrucks running around the clock for 2 weeks to unload the treasure from a ship.
Treasure in body of water . Circle. Hoard of treasure ,Anchor .
Box with circle around it means treasure in lake. So, why not in another sort of body of water? Such as a river,?
Since the pictograph was found at the "Regla" site I think it must have been for it. 'Or another treasure either buried or dumped into the river', is my other idea on it.
When I get my P.I. detector watch for a little bald 50 year old man scanning in the river adjacent to the Regla .
That'll be me .
And here's another theory to back up hunting in river.
Hurricanes can pick up and hurl things long distances. Imagine over the hundreads of years these things hurling scattered coins on the beaches over the barrier islands and into the rivers!

 

[billinstuart]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

Apologies to IT for the gender mistake! Yer point is well taken. I have a ballaststone recovered at Colored Beach(I think) after the hurricanes, which tells me they are moved by wave action, and may be scattered.

Have ballaststones been found in indian middens or camps? did THEY recover them to use?

 

[signumops]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

I said I had a story about Dirk Fisher and bronze cannons, but I got sidetracked a few days back and did not add it. Sorry then, but here it goes...

In 1970 the Derelict seldom strayed from the Cabin Wreck, but on a few occasions we would sail down to Corrigan's patch to dig. I believe there was some sort of agreement between Treasure Salvors and Real 8 to that effect. Anyway, the trip took the biggest part of the day because the Derelict was so slow, but, the diving was usually great, so the Derelict crew could stand the trip. At that time, there was NOTHING along the beach south of Wabasso except the original Green Cabin (and it was a deserted shell used for weekend partys). You did not see anything until you arrived in the vicinity of the newly franchised John's Island development. The first thing built was the John's Island Club facility and it was just going up that year. Mel had the Gold Digger working in that area, right at the beach (I mean like 30 feet from the beach!)

So, anyway, we had the Derelict setup and digging. Rex Stocker was at the wheel. John DeBry and I were on the bottom. I was looking earnestly for the shine of gold, since they were finding some small stuff in the neighborhood. John disappeared. In a minute or so, he stuck his hand in front of my face holding this sizable gold ring with an escudo mounted in it. This was a typical ploy that John favored when we dove together, so, I immediately assumed it belonged to somebody else and that he did not find it on the bottom. I played the wet blanket.

When we surfaced, I could see that Mel, Deo and Dirk had pulled up along side in a small cabin cruiser. There may have been more people in the boat, but, I just remember those three in particular. The ring belonged to Deo. Anyway, as we schmoozed between boats, Dirk said that "I found a bronze cannon over there" and he pointed to the E.S.E. . Now, frankly, after all these years I did not think too much of it, but, I do remember approximately where the Derelict was at the time because the clubhouse had a cupola on top of it and we were in front of that, and that building was about the only thing there at that time. So, for laughs, today I downloaded the aerial tile for Indian River County shoreline in the vicinity of John's Island, shot in 1970. You can get this yourself from the UF historic aerial web. Get tile number 90. I then overlaid that onto Google Earth and came up with this illustration:



The view is northward and the red polygon is the general indication from Dirk regarding the "bronze cannon". The roadways were used to register the 1970 aerial clipping onto Google Earth. Good match.

So what? Well, I am not real familiar with the Corrigan's Wreck so I decided to see where the John's Island Clubhouse is, in relation to what is generally thought to be the honeypot of the Corrigan's wrecksite, specifically the Sterncastle. I pinned that down and produced a plan view. Carumba! Considerable distance from the alleged cannon to the Sterncastle.




I wonder if that gun is still in place, or, if there is a gun for sure.(?) I am going to plot the lease boundaries on Google next.

 

[signumops]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

I have a CAD file based on the State Plane Coordinate System which uses the USG Digital Line Graph boundary and road layers for the Fisher lease areas and I have plotted their lease boundaries on it. I clipped the Corrigan's Patch (COR) lease portion and laid it over the previous illustrations. The radius is elliptic instead of true round because the State Plane system is equal-area while the Google map is basically UTM, so I rubber sheeted the fitting, but the true radian value is adequate for the illustration. When you look at the grid in Google Earth you will notice that the distance in Y is greater than the distance in X, which is more noticable the farther you move away from the equator.

The cannon Dirk mentioned may not be in the Fisher lease as we know it today. Back then, the lease was held by Real 8 and I do not know what their boundaries were.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

You do see where that is going, don't you? Now you understand why Taffi has desired HRD's exploration area for so long. It fits with the direction Kane was searching in the early 90's.

Besides encompassing 5 miles of Vero Beach shoreline between 2 major 1715 shipwrecks, HRD's E132 also covers the deep water areas outside of both Corrigans and Rio Mar.

Tom

 

[signumops]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

The only thing I know about the HRD area is that the Gordy's went to a wreck in the area of the radar site many years ago and did not pay much attention, and, I believe that was the area where Billy went "fishin". Otherwise, I have no idea what the story is with that lease. What happened to it?

 

[GOHO]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

HRD presently has the lease and i have been surveying the area for them over the last two seasons..... Their lease is only exploration at this moment but HRD has been "assured by the State" that if they find a "Ballast Pile" that they would get a salvage contract... Their area goes out to the 3 mile limit and connects to Corrigans to the north and Riomar to the south.... We have many targets and will start checking them this season....

 

[mad4wrecks]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

I found the first eggrock ballast stone on that site, it's been logged...however it was up near Beachcomber Lane and I really feel it was an "intrusion" from Corrigans. Nothing else in that area except for the WII airplane.

Jim Whitaker did an excellent mag survey on E110/E132 but unfortunately, 99% of those anomalies have never been verified in over 10 years.

 

[itmaiden]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

Anyone know anything else about that WWII airplane ? I would like to know more.

itmaiden

Nothing else in that area except for the WII airplane.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

Bob Marx first found it back in the 60's. Unfortunately, it's been pretty well picked apart. Last time I was diving on it, the Indian River Shores fire dept or police dept. dive team were conducting training dives there and some members were bringing up pieces of it.

 

[SFLOcenEng]

Re: accounting for the 1715 fleet vessels by their own " offical records"

Great post and thanks to the people that have obviously put in quite a bit of time and effort and were nice enough to share it.

Nice work people.