American exceptionalism

[spartacus53]

Too bad the Battle of Bunker Hill was actually fought on Breed's Hill

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel, in my wife's family almost all of them are too lazy to work and will tell you that themselves....in between visits to the doctor for made up sicknesses. And they are certainly not unique!

Are they on "the dole" (Welfare)? What ya gonna do, then? Gonna report 'em to Welfare Office where ya live? MIGHT cause a family rift... divorce? Thank you for being honest...

 

[dieselram94]

What ya gonna do, then? Gonna report 'em to Welfare Office where ya live? MIGHT cause a family rift... divorce?

No, not going to report....no sense welfare office likes it, as it is more job security for them. As far as divorce my wife hates welfare even more than I. As far as a family rift....they know full well how we feel, therefore it is a topic we all leave alone, as they will not change.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I have several friendships that have ended over this and I no longer talk to one family member for same reason

 

[dieselram94]

Very hard to discuss this with receipients without it ending very badly for sure.

 

[releventchair]

We have exceptional fishing and can eat them too. As a youth i had the fun of taking visiting English youth fishing.
Fun became more appreciation years later discussing our fisheries with an Englishman met during spring who emotionally told us we did not realize how good we had it here. After researching their fishing and regulations, visiting fisherman getting excited over large carp alone made more sense.
Other cultures before it recently was stopped, (the camping) would camp and fish the near river,everyone got along,despite language and culture barriers due to resources induced smiles, we all had it good!.

 

[Red James Cash]

Too bad the Battle of Bunker Hill was actually fought on Breed's Hill

Very good spart,you know something about history after all.

Hmm well, you're right about me not understanding about American exceptionalism. Not for the reason you stated, but purely for the fact that you lost that battle! (and the odds wern't that great.)

Whether the battle was won or lost became irrelevant.The British elite military were taught a hard lesson by a bunch of farmers.The odds were that great considering that the breeds hill fortification was under the guns of the Royal Navy. Considering that the British were left with roughly 500 or so men completely untouched the rest dead or wounded out of 1550 at the outset of battle,how many would of been untouched if the patriots didnt run out of powder.Though the patriots were driven from the hill,the British were under put siege and driven from Boston.

 

[Dano Sverige]

Very good spart,you know something about history after all.




Whether the battle was won or lost became irrelevant.The British elite military were taught a hard lesson by a bunch of farmers.The odds were that great considering that the breeds hill fortification was under the guns of the Royal Navy. Considering that the British were left with roughly 500 or so men completely untouched the rest dead or wounded out of 1550 at the outset of battle,how many would of been untouched if the patriots didnt run out of powder.Though the patriots were driven from the hill,the British were under put siege and driven from Boston.

Lol, once again the American passion for portraying the British as much more competant than they really were raises it's ugly head!

"The British troops were indisciplined and disorganised. The guns for which the wrong ammunition was provided were almost certainly battalion weapons manned by foot rather than Royal Artillery."

As for your picture:

" The illustration of the line of grenadiers given below is misleading. It is likely that the soldiers could not be brought to press the attack properly until the final assault, for which they were ordered to leave their packs and to advance without firing. It is unlikely that the British troops were capable of drill of the precision suggested by the picture or even the smart turnout illustrated.
The use of the flank companies (grenadiers and light infantry) is a suggestion that these companies may have been the only parts of the battalions considered reliable. It is an understandable feature of accounts of the American Revolution that the British forces are portrayed as more competent and disciplined than in fact they were. One of the causes of discontent in New England prior to the war had been the indiscipline and oppressive behaviour of British regular troops."

" The battle was at the time considered to be an American defeat but has since been lifted to the ranks of a heroic stands against forces of oppression." - Hmm.Not like Americans to twist a defeat into a glorious something else is it? lol

 

[dieselram94]

Lol, once again the American passion for portraying the British as much more competant than they really were raises it's ugly head!

"The British troops were indisciplined and disorganised. The guns for which the wrong ammunition was provided were almost certainly battalion weapons manned by foot rather than Royal Artillery."

As for your picture:

" The illustration of the line of grenadiers given below is misleading. It is likely that the soldiers could not be brought to press the attack properly until the final assault, for which they were ordered to leave their packs and to advance without firing. It is unlikely that the British troops were capable of drill of the precision suggested by the picture or even the smart turnout illustrated.
The use of the flank companies (grenadiers and light infantry) is a suggestion that these companies may have been the only parts of the battalions considered reliable. It is an understandable feature of accounts of the American Revolution that the British forces are portrayed as more competent and disciplined than in fact they were. One of the causes of discontent in New England prior to the war had been the indiscipline and oppressive behaviour of British regular troops."

" The battle was at the time considered to be an American defeat but has since been lifted to the ranks of a heroic stands against forces of oppression." - Hmm.Not like Americans to twist a defeat into a glorious something else is it? lol

Dano, the last part of your statement: like Americans to twist a defeat into a glorious something else is just more of your American bashing you take such pride in. I think you like to try to bash America just to try to make yourself feel better for your abnormally small parts of your body.

 

[Red James Cash]

"The British troops were indisciplined and disorganised. The guns for which the wrong ammunition was provided were almost certainly battalion weapons manned by foot rather than Royal Artillery."

Actually thats a false statement,the brit troops were disiplined,but they were disorganized due to the tall grass and the fences that they had to climb over.The Royal Navy still had 128 cannon brought to bear on breeds hill from the ships of the line in Boston harbour,regardless of the field artillery bringing the wrong ammo,it wouldnt of helped anyway.Flanking was the brits plan but the flanking companies had the crap shot out of them by waiting militia.That stalled the flanking and frontal assault turned out to be the only way.

 

[releventchair]

Hmm no bite on fishing then.
Troop disposition a factor too. many British were not chasing glory and some sentiments were to be a dog before a soldier. Not a disrespect for crown or country but how they wound up with military as an option in life.(often short).
Evolution of tactics starting to drift from Napoleonic another factor. While usually common practices followed,cowpens no quarter at waxhaws and cannon at close quarters somewhere?(sorry)had some individuals changing things up to a more savage than civilized fighting,much as our guerrilla tactics were viewed by the British. The odds of getting struck when in formation over open ground would require fortitude that had to be hard to muster for all.

 

[AdDicted2Ag]

Dave, drones save American lives...Targets are a threat to our troops, or country, and most countries don't have the ability to use them, Israel uses them to name one.

Our bases are there to protect American interest and to be able to be used if needed in the future as a jumping off point to a hot spot....

No we don't provide universal health care, look at the countries that do, Canada being one, why do people living in Canada come to America for major operations? Because they have to wait forever to have it done there, the health care is stretched to the limit. I had a roommate from Canada, he was constantly complaining about health care in Canada and how much better Americas was. His father need major operation and waited over a year for it, he gave up came to America and got it here. He was afraid he was going to die waiting and he was in pain. When you need an operation do you want to have to wait in line for a year or longer?

I have no problem about a single penny of my taxes going to the military, the world is a scary place I prefer we have the capability to defend ourselves and to make any attacker know the price to attack us is 1000 times what they do. Hit us with a rock, we hit you with a missile. My problem is my tax money going to parasites who contribute nothing to our society except a constant drain of resources because they are too lazy to work. The parasites who feel we owe them money to sit home do nothing. We do not owe them because they made poor life choices....

Listen treasure hunter, this is not a personal attack against you and please know that I completely respect your opinion, but you really need to turn off FOX news for a moment and take a look at reality.. What a lot of Americans do not understand is that there is a big difference between national defense and nation building via the military industrial complex. I have no problem with my tax dollars going to defense programs, but I have a huge problem with my tax dollars going towards more meaningless wars so our government can profit from them. We have been propping up military dictators in the middle east since the 50s and still we wonder why the so desperately hate us.. The United States trained Bin Laden and provided him with weapons long before the attacks of 911.. Also, those WMDs we found in Iraq that were ordered to be destroyed by Bush before we invaded.. How do you think Hussein actually acquired those weapons? The answer is the United States.. We sold the WMDs to Saddam much earlier, then ordered him to destroy them and when he didn't, invaded on the grounds that he still had WMDs.. Absolutely ridiculous but true.. You said yourself that war is for American interest.. All this nation building is not simply for protection from large countries like Russia or North Korea.. Most of it is for profit whether it be the military industrial complex, natural resource control etc.. Meanwhile the mentality that you hold, is the same mentality that encourages my generation to join the military and be sent off to sacrifice their blood for a meaningless cause.. We continue to intervene overseas in Libya... We are bombing Pakistan and Yemen and now are debating whether to begin bombing Iran.. How much longer is it going to be until people wake up and realize that the reason we face terrorist attacks, is because we are killing their citizens on their sovereign land.. By 2010, the United States had killed 250,000 people in Afghanistan and Iraq... How many more people have to die until we understand that these wars aren't for the spreading of democracy or America's influencing the world in a positive way? We always here people talking about how bad the economy is.. The real problem that is bankrupting this country is the continuous nation building and military influence around the world.. Look at the Soviet Union and what happened to them.. Our military presence is unsustainable unless we making drastic changes, we are destined for the same outcome as them. While you may believe these drone strikes are for our protection, they are doing much more harm than good.. It is estimated that for every terrorist killed by a drone strike, 49 innocent people die, including women and children.. I wonder how we Americans would feel if China or Russia were doing the same thing here... Once again, I am not attacking you, but I am so tired of seeing my friends come back from meaningless wars emotionally destroyed and in body bags.. My generation is tired of these wars and if you don't believe me, go talk to most people my age and see how they feel about them.. Even try talking to young men in the military.. We are completely fed up and done fighting just so bigwigs can make money off of weapon production and regional power/control.. I would like to close by saying, it amuses me how we have Americans and a British man fighting over who is exceptional and who isn't.. America was once exceptional but those days are quickly disappearing.. America is becoming nothing but a large consumer plantation that will fight and kill by any means necessary to uphold it's military supremacy in the world.. Two of my sisters live in England, so i have a small amount of perspective over there as well and you can be damn sure that the same problems exist in the UK as do in the US.. Our governments are buddies these days and whatever one does, the other normally blindly follows.. So in all actuality, the debate is meaningless, because both of our governments are so corrupt that neither country could be considered exceptional these days.. If anyone cares to watch a video that actually has an answer, maybe you will enjoy this.. Take care everyone and God Bless. Turn your anger away from each other and turn it towards the corrupt bureaucrats who continue to rape us all on a daily basis..

 

[Red James Cash]

Thats one reason i was saying that the brit troops were disiplined.To march in echelon or formation towards an entrenched enemies guns requires a great deal of discipline.Their back luck that they were forced into a frontal assault.If the militias ammo held out it would of been a whole different story.The third attack would of been decimated as were the first two.

 

[dieselram94]

Another American exceptionalism is we are free to take a risk in starting a business and free to work hard so we may uplift our personal standard of living, which in turn always up lifts other peoples standard of living. Being born poor in this country does not mean you must remain poor!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

AG, first I know your not attacking me so there is no problem there at all.

I am not as naive as you may think I am......

I know we trained Bin Laden I have known that since about 1980 shortly after Russia invaded the Afghans in 1979 and established their puppet government. I also know we trained Hussein and supplied him with weapons to help fight the Iraq/Iran war. The old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend addage...." Government used those funds from the sales to Iraq to finance arms to Nicaragua rebels....

Saddam Hussein average killing approx 80,000 countrymen a year for 23 years which adds up to about 2 million people dying at his command... Your 250,000 is a lot less than what was dying before we entered there and your numbers are off in that that is not what our forces have killed but what the total death count is since wars began for both civilian and combatant deaths.... How many of those deaths were caused by the other side?

When I was in the Air-force I worked in Air-force Intelligence (I know some say an oxymoron) on operational war plans, I could read daily CIA briefings and reports, I had full access to the vast Intelligence Library the only place I was required to be escorted was when I entered the military crypto department. I dint know your military background, my clearance was Top Secret, SIOP, ESI.... The SIOP ESI was what counted. (Nothing I say is classified any longer). I know the inter-workings of the military and what is told the general population in relation to what is real. I know the propaganda that comes out ....

I knew the cold war like only someone who has lived it on the inside could know. When I got out it was because I no longer wanted to know what I knew, I turned down a lot of money to reenlist when I got out ( big mistake #1) and I turned down a nice paying civilian job in DC working for the State Department... ( big mistake #2).... I told them I no longer wanted to know what was going on, I was going home growing my hair, smoking dope and going to school. I was tired of playing WWIII.....

Very few people in this country know how many times we were close to WWIII, how close we really were during the Cuban Missile Crisis, or how many times Russia launched a huge fleet of Bear bombers over the Bearing Sea to see where we responded from using their satellites. They do know how many times we launched every B52 we could put in the air fully loaded with nukes toward Russia and had missiles silos open and ready to launch. It was a "game" both sides played to see how the other side responded.....Bad part was neither side really knew when it was a game or if it was real.... People did not know how the war would be fought, the difference between a ground nuke blast and a blast 1000 ft above a harbor and what it would do....

I'm sorry but it is a scary world out there and there are things that have to be done that the population does not know or really need to know. There are people our government needs to take care of now rather than later, we should have taken out Bin Laden 15-20 years prior to 911... We really didn't know if Hussein had WMDs or not any more he siad he did then said he didn't then refuse to allow UN to inspect, he could have opened up and showed the inspectors what they wanted to see and stayed in power, he chose to roll the dice and he lost just like a game Russian roulette...We were afraid he would sell one to terriorists and it would be used here, what would people have said then after 100,000-200,00 people died in an American city, I can tell you, "why didnt we take care of it before they got here".

You ask what would we say if Russia or China was doing these things, they are, Russin in Chechnya and China in Tibet that I can think of just off the top of my head...I currently have family members serving in Afghanistan..... I lost quite a few friends in Viet Nam and a couple in Iraq.....

I do not always agree with what we do militarily, but just like when I was in there are things I/we don't know and don't need to know.

I have one very strong convicition in that I support the Constitution and our Bill of Rights, I do not think it should be tampered with and for me if we are going to interpert it, it needs to be done through the eyes of the men who wrote it and what was going on at the time it was written. We were fighting a war against tyranny, the safeguards in the Bill of Rights and Constitution were put there to fight tyranny within our government in the future if it ever arises.....


Now with all of that said, our rules say no politics and many of the current threads are vearing away from the one political topic we do allow at the moment, (2ND Amendment) into other areas of politics. If threads get locked or if they disappear don't think it is because of something you said or one person including myself said... Our rules still state no politics...

 

[dieselram94]

This is very true the world is a very dangerous place, to think otherwise is foolish. A lot of the rest of the world just simply hates us. Some hate us because we have so much, some hate us because of religion, some just like to hate. The fact that there are so many guns in America for sure has helped in the past and helps now to keep other countries from invading us. The second amendment protects Americans not only from our govt. becoming tyrannical but from other tyrannical governments as well. I like being able to go into a store and buy ammo without having to tell the govt. why.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! What if... the "invasion" is from "within"; OKC Bombing, WACO...

 

[dieselram94]

The bombing is proof that banning guns doesn't prevent people killing people.

HA! What if... the "invasion" is from "within"; OKC Bombing, WACO...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The bombing is proof that banning guns doesn't prevent people killing people.

OK, then... let's look at WACO; stockpiled guns, Christian Cult, NO free speech, charismatic leader, who was a ..... (fill in the "word"); they PROBABLY wanted to be left alone... BUT! LOOK at all the VIOLATIONS of HUMAN rights, freedom, etc. ."provided" by the US Constitution with ALL the Amendments, THEN!

 

[Crispin]

Treasure Hunter: Thank you for serving our country. I am honored to consider you my friend and I consider it a priviledge to treat combat veterans...I saw one today.