Any suggestions for added depth with the 9" coil

[bonepicker]

Hello again, I recently purchased the DEUS with the 9" coil. Still reading the owners manual, and starting to read andys book.
Still using basic1 and turning up the sensi a little. Freq at 8Khz. I finally got permission to hunt this house that was built around 1900. I put several hours in and didn't get one coin from before 1960. Most of these coppers and dimes that I chose to dig were around 7"es. I saw some layers of sand mixed in with the topsoil in some areas, looks like the area could have had a little fill, but it was close to level with the street.
I waited to get permission on this house for a long time, and just knew when I finally did I was gona kill it......
This old house is next door to my mother's, and I was told it used to be in our family.
Someone told me that I would have days where I would love the DEUS and days where I would hate it. Well today I was not lovin it.

Was wondering if someone could give me some advice in order to get more depth with the 9" coil.
Im really starting to regret getting the 9", but I think once I learn the machine I will get more depth.
Would also like to try some new programs, was wondering if someone could tell me where to find some, or possibly share some with me.
Im near the southern coastline, the mineralization is not bad here. Most of the soil is semi sandy, to rich black with earth worms.
The mineralization levels on my remote are very low (2 bars). and my GMI is normally mid/upper 80's to upper 70s.

I hit one 3 coin spill that rang up as a good 92 at 7"es from all directions. I thought for sure this was a silver quarter. It ended up being a 1969 penny, and a 1960 penny and 1965 dime stuck together. Everytime I would get a good deep deep signal, I would rotate 90 degrees and the signal would either change, or if it stayed close to the same, it would end up being some kind of trash.
Was just one of those days..
I almost went home to go get my Whites XLT.

 

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[ggossage]

House hunting in low mineralization....

Try changing basic 1 to:
12kHz
Disc 6
Full tones
Notch 7-30
Reactivity 1
Silencer -1
Sens 90, but if you can tolerate 95, do it.
Audio response 4 or 5 to hear the deepies.
Hunt with this program

Save that as a custom program and call it whatever you want..."DeepYd" perhaps. Next, create and save an identical program adjacent to DeepYd with 4kHz and notch 7-25. That way you'll be able to compare targets with 4kHz. If a target sounds good in 12kHz, check it in 4kHz. If the pitch drops, then you probably have a nonferrous target. If the pitch increases or the volume of the tone weakens, you most likely have an iron target. If the pitch stays strong but has almost indistinguishable tone difference, then, if deep, you should dig it--often times for me however, these turn out not to be coins....but a relic surprise :-)

It sounds as if at this house you'll be digging very deep (over 7-8 inches), so don't trust VDIs. If you find the program is still not going deep enough, then drop reactivity to 0 (be sure to change silencer again because it changes automatically every time you adjust reactivity). You'll have to decrease sweep speed with each drop in reactivity.

This will help you get deeper and find the limits of the 9inch coil...hopefully there's another layer of keepers down there, but if not, you've done everything you can to hear it.

Full tones may be very new to you...if it's overwhelming, then switch back to the number of tones you prefer...but there's been a lot of discussion lately about the advantages of full tones over 5 or less tones.

Good luck!

 

[bonepicker]

Thank you Ggossage for taking the time to respond to my thread. I just finished re-reading the owners manual and it confirms what you and your program says. That Sensitivity and TxGain doesn't seem to have much to do with depth. Which is different from other machines that I have owned.
Seems like depth has more to do with lowering reactivity and lowering silencer.
I have mostly been using 3 tone, but like you mentioned it seems like a lot of people are trying 5 tone or multi-tone and having good results.
I have tried multi tone a few times, but it is a little overwhelming and will probably take some time getting used to.
Looks like im going to be up late tonight programming my remote with the settings you provided. One program in 12Khz and the other in 4 Khz.
I guess I was really hoping to just turn the machine on and take off running, which I was able to do, but it is gona take some time adjusting and tweaking setttings, and listening and learning tones, to really get the deepies and make things happen.
Thanks again bud.

 

[ggossage]

I forgot to mention TX...sorry about that. The Deus factory settings are great for turn on and go hunting....but you've asked for depth so you'll need a little extra oomph I think. Sens settings amplify the barely audible sounds....it doesn't gain you depth, it just enhances the barely audible tones, beeps and blips so you can hear them [at the expense of machine stability]. TX however does put more power into the ground to gain depth, so you should boost that as much as you can get away with...3 for maximum depth. Air tests don't show TX giving much added depth, but I suspect it does give a little extra depth to help reach those deep targets in the ground. Keep in mind that using a TX of 3 will chew up your battery faster...so keep an external charging source handy if you plan to hunt longer than 8 hours or so. Be advised though, that twice in the past year I've bumped TX up to 3 in my 12K program--and while those two times may be anomalies, my battery depleted within roughly 3 hours. This is not supposed to happen, but it did for me. Using TX-2 has never posed a problem.

If there's not a lot of iron at the site, try ground balance = tracking, so you get perfect tracking throughout your hunt. If there's iron though, use manual GB.

Good luck!

 

[bonepicker]

ggossage "If a target sounds good in 12kHz, check it in 4kHz. If the pitch drops, then you probably have a nonferrous target. If the pitch increases or the volume of the tone weakens, you most likely have an iron target. If the pitch stays strong but has almost indistinguishable tone difference, then, if deep, you should dig it--often times for me however, these turn out not to be coins....but a relic surprise :-)"

So if the pitch drops when going from 12Khz to 4Khz, it is probably not iron (most likely coins), and if it rises it is likely iron.?
And what do you mean by a relic, I guess when I think of a relic, im thinking iron. Are you talking about buttons/bullets etc. (Nonferrous non-coin items).
Sorry these questions seem redundant, but I got a little confused..

I picked the 9" coil up because a lot of my areas are hi-trash. Im thinking about getting the 11", but they are pricey, and I read there isn't much difference in depth. I think I read there is like an 1" depth difference in depth, but you get a lot more coverage (ground coverage), with the larger coil.
In your opinion is there a big difference in the depth between the 11" and 9" coil?
Hate to even ask, but the additional coils for the XP aren't cheap.

 

[ggossage]

I hear you on the cost. I started with the 9 inch coil also. I had it for 6 months and ordered the 11 for the extra ground coverage and depth...it's not that there's a huge difference in depth, but it's just enough (maybe 1 or 2 inches) to hear those fringe targets. The 9 does a better job in high volume target areas...just because it's easier to separate signals. It makes sense--if the coil doesn't cover two targets at the same time, it's easier to separate; I see this in the field every time I hunt. Also, if you experience an anomaly like I did where the battery depletes prematurely, then you can simply switch coils.

Yes, if the pitch (and VDI if shallow enough (less than 8 inches) drops going from 12 to 4K then there's a greater chance you have a coin (or some other desirable target) under the coil. The same is true if the pitch (and VDI if shallow enough (less than 8 inches) goes up going from 4 to 12K. On the other hand, if pitch or VDI increases going from 12 to 4K, or decreases going from 4 to 12K, then you likely have a nail, bottlecap or iron or some other undesirable target. All of this is easily reproducible with air testing...get a nail, a bottlecap and some coins and try this out for yourself...it'll save you hours in the field.

When doing this test in the field and you notice for example that in 12K a target reads 87 and in 4K it reads 86, then you likely do not have a coin under the coil....it could be any number of things, but it's usually not iron. In ideal conditions, coins separate much more than a point or two between 4 and 12K. For example, a clad quarter might read 93 in 12K and 84 in 4K...notice there's quite a spread there. If you find a target that reads 93 in 12K and 92 in 4K, you can almost be certain there's not a coin under your coil. It could be a harmonica reed, a skeleton key, a face plate to a door, a hinge, a round, square or triangular piece of nonferrous metal etc.....the list goes on, but it won't be iron and it won't be a coin. I mentioned "relic surprise" because the other day I got a 91 in 12K and an 86 in 4K...this is not normal for a silver dime or even a clad dime. Normal for those dimes would be roughly 91 / 77. So my interest was piqued. I dug up a nice medium-gauge sterling ring...which was a very nice surprise. People say to dig everything...we all know that's not possible, so we filter what we dig--if I get a reading higher in 4K than in 12K I will not dig it. Of course, that means I no longer dig bottlecaps....it also means I won't unmask any desirable target hidden by those bottlecaps...so there's the catch.

I know this is a lot of info to digest, but the more you use the Deus and the more you dig, you'll quickly learn the nuances.

 

[Welgund]

Bonepicker,

Great info from everyone here on how to get depth. I to run the 9" coil and have run the 11" coil and by far don't regret getting the 9 first. Just remember Reactivity and Silencer affect depth more than any other setting. When I switched to full tones it made it a completely different machine. I recommend you go into Basic one, change tones to full tones and silencer to -1. and try that. Forget about the TID after that and dig by sound. if you get a nice repeatable that doesn't register on the TID and is just a blip on the right side of the horseshoe than get out your shovel and start to dig. Anything past about 7-8 inches isn't going to register much if at all on the TID so doesn't matter. Trust in the Deus tones to get you there. You will be very pleased with the outcome.

 

[bonepicker]

Ggossage. We live in an area that has had many major Hurricanes over the years, and some not all, of my sites have lots of trash/debris, so I thought the 9" was a good choice. I do like the idea of having the second coil for added depth, and also its like having a spare battery available.
I do know what you mean about TxGain sucking the battery dry.
The other day I had a full charge on my battery. I hit the beach for a few hours in the morning. Then that afternoon I went to my flat button site for a few hours, sometime during the afternoon hunt I switched TxGain to 3. I did not charge the battery that night, because I read you can get 15 hours on the coil battery. Then next morning I went to hunt a yard, and I noticed my battery indicator on my headphones flashed when I was turning on and it said I only had one bar of life left from a total of 6 hours of hunting. I was thinking anomaly or old/bunk battery. TxGain did it.
I loaded those settings on the machine last night, and then tried some air tests. I did notice some difference in depth, but it wasn't HUGE. Maybe I was just tired (was past my bedtime), maybe air tests and real life digs, aren't quite the same. I will have to try to get out today, or sometime soon and see what happens in the field. But all in all, your advice has been invaluable, and I really appreciate you taking the time to point me in the right direction.

Welgund. Thank you for also posting to my thread and also offering me some advice. I will try reducing silencer, using full tones, and trusting the tones on the deep targets. I guess on other machines I was a VDI or numbers kind of guy. In the past when I tried to go by tones on deep targets, I usually dug iron, but I will do as you say with the DEUS and see what happens. Gona learn this #@&% machine, unless it kills me first .

 

[ggossage]

With my 12K program I rarely use TX-3...and I don't feel like I suffer any depth loss; at least it's not noticeable to me. With targets at the 7-8 inch and less range, TX-1 or 2 work just fine and doesn't eat up the battery. You can test this yourself in the field: Set TX at 1 or 2 in 12K, when you're in the field and you get over a desirable deep target, flip over to the adjacent/identical 4K program and listen for any audio strength/stability differences--you'll notice that there won't be much, if any difference on a desirable target....even though the 4K program is using TX-3. That tells me it's not necessary to increase to TX-3 in 12K. Above I mentioned going to TX-3 for maximum depth...that advice is reserved for the extreme fringe targets when you can afford a battery hit. Using the 11 inch coil will get you there much easier.

+1 on Welgund's full tones / reactivity and silencer comments!

 

[Terry Soloman]

Bare with me here, but sensitivity is extremely important when it comes to depth with the 9" coil. As a rule (not an absolute one), never use more than 3/4th's of your sensitivity gain, even in mild soils and sand. At 80-percent you begin to lose depth with most 9" vlf coils. Just experiment with cutting your sensitivity to around 68-percent and monitor your depth for two-weeks. These are well built machines that need to be tuned correctly for maximum performance

 

[bonepicker]

Bare with me here, but sensitivity is extremely important when it comes to depth with the 9" coil. As a rule (not an absolute one), never use more than 3/4th's of your sensitivity gain, even in mild soils and sand. At 80-percent you begin to lose depth with most 9" vlf coils. Just experiment with cutting your sensitivity to around 68-percent and monitor your depth for two-weeks. These are well built machines that need to be tuned correctly for maximum performance

Wow man, that contradicts what a lot of people are telling me. I have had another person with 30 yrs exp tell me if you run the sensitivity too high it pushes too much signal into the ground and that the signal bounces back and creates interference and causes problems.
At this point im about willing to try anything to make this transition go a little smoother, but don't take this personally, but when I first read your post I thought you might be pulling my leg.
I will try to back off on my sensitivity on a couple hunts and see what happens.
Thank you for replying and offering a suggestion. All suggestions are appreciated and welcome here.
Were getting buckets of rain right now, so maybe I can get out tomorrow and give it a shot.

 

[ggossage]

The Deus is easy to use, but it is a complex machine and there are many nuances one has to learn. In fact, you can learn something valuable about the Deus and then forget it, just as I did. Mr Soloman brings up a good point that I had forgotten, that TX and Sens work in tandem and should be set inversely...if one setting is set higher, the other needs to be set lower. Here's a cut/paste from one of my favorite web pages on the Deus: http://www.metaldetectingworld.com/xp_deus_settings_explained.shtml

Special attention should be paid to setting levels of the Sensitivity/TX Power "tandem" in the same search program. Both settings should not be high at the same time. For example, if you set the TX Power at 2, set the Sensitivity as low as 82. These two settings should be always inversely proportional to one another.

Setting Sensitivity on high levels may increase the Deus' detecting range but may also negatively affect the Deus' performance even more.It depends on levels of mineral content in the ground. If you metal detect on highly mineralized ground, it is best to keep Sensitivity in the 80s and let other key settings - Reactivity, Manual Ground Balance, and TX Power, which are responsible for the detecting range, take care of it.Otherwise, you will have to deal with a lot of iron- and ground-falsing, i.e. the Deus will be annoyingly unstable responding to both the ground and iron with high-pitched tones.
One of the ways to increase the Deus' detecting range is to use another "tandem" - Sensitivity/Manual Ground Balance. The lower the Sensitivity level, the lower you can set the Ground Rejection Level (or Level of Ground Effect Corrections (page 16 of the User Manual)) using the Manual Ground Balance mode - this would allow you to increase the Deus' operational depth range. Another situation when one may also need to lower Sensitivity is when there is too much Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) around - overhead and underground power lines, relay and electrical substations, cellular phone towers, etc.
NOTE: Using too much Sensitivity can cause a lot of iron- and ground-falsing. However, setting the Sensitivity level below 80 may cause substantial loss in the Deus' performance, i.e. the operational detecting range will be greatly compromised.

TX Power is a "simple" feature which can directly increase or decrease the Deus' Depth Potential (not to be confused with the Detecting Range or Operation Depth Range).


The TX Power control allows a user to select an optimal level of strength of emitted electromagnetic field according to one of the following general types of search conditions:1) The ground is highly contaminated with iron (nails and their fragments, melted blobs, large and small fragments of iron roofing sheets, pieces of slag, etc.) - the TX Power should be set at 1 because a)increasing detecting range is out of question due to the superficial iron "blanket" in the ground, b) the lowest TX Power level prevents the detector's audio from overloading with loud responses to abundant iron junk, which can easily block the responses to small and/or partially masked desirable targets, and c)lowering the TX Power improves target recognition. The level 1 should be also used when metal detecting takes place on the highly mineralized ground.2) The ground has moderate levels of iron junk and mineral content - the TX Power should be set at 2 (default setting in most factory preset programs) and will be sufficient for most detecting conditions.NOTE 1:3) The ground is free of iron junk, and a level of mineral content is low - the TX Power should be set at 3 to increase the Detection Depth; however, more battery power will be consumed, hence shorter battery life - almost two times shorter than with the TX Power at 1.

In theory, the TX Power set at 3 increases the Deus' detecting range, but, under real conditions, the increase is noticeable only for medium and large targets (the difference between settings 1 and 3 will be approximately 2 inches). For small coins, the increase is miniscule. This is why, levels 1 and 2 are more practical for detecting small and tiny coins such as medieval hammereds. The setting of 3 is default for the 'Relic' factory preset program which utilizes a low 4 kHz frequency (optimal for deep large targets).NOTE: If you use a Frequency Shift feature (page 39 in User's Manual), you will NOT be able to adjust the TX Power setting as it will not be available in the Sensitivity' EXPERT sub-menu.

 

[Cross Potent]

Sent you a PM. I agree - TX power level doesnt make much difference around here from what I've seen. I keep mine on 1. I keep my freq on 18. Specializing on the small cut silvers and tiny cuff links and other colonial relics I just stay there. I tried other freq's on my sites after using 18 and couldnt find much of anything else. I agree about the sens. I keep mine around 85 and do better that way. Most definitely I have proved to myself that having too high sens will KILL signals. Better off with very low reactivity, no silencer, manual ground at 79-81 and sens on 85 (even as low as 82) for my area. I have all 3 coils but use the 9" most of the time. Have found that I can tweak it more and get the depth - maybe it has to do with less surface area thus it can handle the tweaked settings better.

 

[Cross Potent]

I dont want to scare you with advanced settings but watch this video once or twice a week while you get used to your machine and it may help grasp the settings. It helped me.

 

[Pointman]

I run the sensitivity around 85-90. I keep the audio response at 5 but will turn it up to 7 sometimes and I keep the reactivity no higher than 3. I usually only set it to 2. It makes a major difference in your depth if you run the reactivity too high. For most places I go 2 and it is plenty. I keep silence to 0 or -1 and the TX setting to 2.

I am not sure if these are optimum settings, but I get 8-9 inches on dimes with the 9" coil, although sometimes I can hear deeper things, but the VDI will not show anything. I also mostly run the 13" coil, but I don't know if it very much deeper than the 9", although it covers way more ground per sweep.

Concerning the 13" coil: I was given a super price on it, but If I were to ever go back and pay more, the 11" coil is a better price, I would be surprised if the 13" would go any deeper for the size.

 

[Cross Potent]

I run the sensitivity around 85-90. I keep the audio response at 5 but will turn it up to 7 sometimes and I keep the reactivity no higher than 3. I usually only set it to 2. It makes a major difference in your depth if you run the reactivity too high. For most places I go 2 and it is plenty. I keep silence to 0 or -1 and the TX setting to 2.

I am not sure if these are optimum settings, but I get 8-9 inches on dimes with the 9" coil, although sometimes I can hear deeper things, but the VDI will not show anything. I also mostly run the 13" coil, but I don't know if it very much deeper than the 9", although it covers way more ground per sweep.

Concerning the 13" coil: I was given a super price on it, but If I were to ever go back and pay more, the 11" coil is a better price, I would be surprised if the 13" would go any deeper for the size.

Yep that 13 was great until I learned to set the manual ground down to the upper 70s with the 9". I've even run down to 77 with it at a few places. I can't do that with the 13 round here. To quiet the Deus down I go to ground/ expert and add a couple clicks of ground notch and also set the audio level at 3 if not too windy. Combine that with 1 or 2 reactivity and little to no silencer and the Deus w/ 9" coil goes amazingly deep. I used to keep my audio level at 6 but with these settings the chatter just drives me nuts.

 

[bonepicker]

Thank you for sharing your settings Pointman and Cross Potent. Im going to try and drop down my Reactivity and Silencer some and see what happens.
That is a very interesting video you uploaded Cross.
Im going to have to watch that one along with garys videos about 20 more times, and hopefully it will sink in.
Manual Ground pumping to find my ground. Then run my GB to the provided setting. Then try to offset/ground notch to reduce some of the chatter. You guys rock.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

My 2 cents worth. Max depth is achieved with sensitivity at around 92-95. Reactivity 1 or 0, silencer -1. Reactivity 0 seems to work more in milder soil, in medium mineralization reactivity 1 seems to do better, 0 settings seems to require slower swing speed, and even in medium mineralization soil, it's hard for the signal on a deeper target to sneak through. I have seen no benefit to TX power=3. Now I have seen where a TX power setting of 2 vs 1 helps on the deeper targets (coins).

 

[vabuckhunter]

Are you guys saying to not do the manual pump ground balance but to manually set the ground balance around 80?

 

[Del Digger]

The best advice I can give, is to give yourself a lot of time to get experience with the machine and leave the settings alone! Then get the book by Andy Sabisch read it thoroughly than read it again. In his book you'll find programs that will enhance the Deus experience. You can't really make changes in the programs until you completely understand what each adjustment means. Once you have learned the options available you can then make informed decisions and you'll find a lot more with the Dues.