Archaeologist here - lets chat!

[MinerGirl]

Hi Philvis, Thanks for your reply. I hope it works out too. I think it will. I just started getting concerned when I've read about others finding really cool things and then they seemed to be ignored.

Well, I certainly don't want to "borrow trouble", just wondering easttrail's opinion on this question and it seems that "curiousfinds" has the same question.

I'll keep you all posted and "Philvis"...you are 1/2 right on this "Find"... Oh, and I haven't cleaned it and I've found quite a bit of "charcoal" too if they need it. This site was disturbed first by construction and 25 feet deep of Earth was put on my land so I "own" it and can only give my best guess as to the depth of this find. Between 15 ft and 25ft deep? (the bottom of this huge "hole" they dug is now on top so I've found Lots of neat things) Our whole area and the length of US 12 from Detroit to Chicago was declared an Ancient Mastodon Trail by the University of Michigan , Archeology Department. (sorry U of M, I spelled "The" with a small t...inside joke...

MinerGirl

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[easttrail]

Hi Philvis, Thanks for your reply. I hope it works out too. I think it will. I just started getting concerned when I've read about others finding really cool things and then they seemed to be ignored.

Well, I certainly don't want to "borrow trouble", just wondering easttrail's opinion on this question and it seems that "curiousfinds" has the same question.

I'll keep you all posted and "Philvis"...you are 1/2 right on this "Find"... Oh, and I haven't cleaned it and I've found quite a bit of "charcoal" too if they need it. This site was disturbed first by construction and 25 feet deep of Earth was put on my land so I "own" it and can only give my best guess as to the depth of this find. Between 15 ft and 25ft deep? (the bottom of this huge "hole" they dug is now on top so I've found Lots of neat things) Our whole area and the length of US 12 from Detroit to Chicago was declared an Ancient Mastodon Trail by the University of Michigan , Archeology Department. (sorry U of M, I spelled "The" with a small t...inside joke...

MinerGirl

First, my specialty is not lithic technology, so I'm no expert in that subfield. That said, there's growing acceptance of pre-Clovis technology, so it's a going discussion. Generally, the problem with finds people bring in is that the context is not secure. In this case, the stratigraphy is not intact, so that introduces huge uncertainty. Good luck, and keep us informed!

 

[MinerGirl]

Thanks easttrail, I understand these doubts due to the way the ground was disturbed and wondered if this would be a huge factor...I Hope it's not and this excavation site took place only 2 feet from my property so if the archeologists want to camp out in my backyard and "Dig" some-more they would be welcome... Heck, I want to do it but certainly not with a "Back Hoe"...

MinerGirl

P.S...I now look at my neighbor's huge tree that has a "Mean Lean" to it and wonder if it could be the "Marker Tree" for a Big Campsite! I've found ancient spear heads in the "dirt" side of my basement...and I was only looking for my kitchen fan...Ha

 

[easttrail]

Thanks easttrail, I understand these doubts due to the way the ground was disturbed and wondered if this would be a huge factor...I Hope it's not and this excavation site took place only 2 feet from my property so if the archeologists want to camp out in my backyard and "Dig" some-more they would be welcome... Heck, I want to do it but certainly not with a "Back Hoe"...

MinerGirl

P.S...I now look at my neighbor's huge tree that has a "Mean Lean" to it and wonder if it could be the "Marker Tree" for a Big Campsite! I've found ancient spear heads in the "dirt" side of my basement...and I was only looking for my kitchen fan...Ha

Could be, but I doubt it's a pre-Clovis tree!

 

[MinerGirl]

easttrail...Funny...it was probably those "New" kids on the block...

MinerGirl

 

[Minrelica]

I never met an archeologist that I did not like. No, really.

I like whiskey too.

 

[Philvis]

Hi Philvis, Thanks for your reply. I hope it works out too. I think it will. I just started getting concerned when I've read about others finding really cool things and then they seemed to be ignored.

Well, I certainly don't want to "borrow trouble", just wondering easttrail's opinion on this question and it seems that "curiousfinds" has the same question.

I'll keep you all posted and "Philvis"...you are 1/2 right on this "Find"... Oh, and I haven't cleaned it and I've found quite a bit of "charcoal" too if they need it. This site was disturbed first by construction and 25 feet deep of Earth was put on my land so I "own" it and can only give my best guess as to the depth of this find. Between 15 ft and 25ft deep? (the bottom of this huge "hole" they dug is now on top so I've found Lots of neat things) Our whole area and the length of US 12 from Detroit to Chicago was declared an Ancient Mastodon Trail by the University of Michigan , Archeology Department. (sorry U of M, I spelled "The" with a small t...inside joke...

MinerGirl

Well hopefully there is still some intact context left. Without that, dating will be impossible. Worse case scenario is that the 'site' is truly disturbed and no one is able to date it. Unfortunately the charcoal needs to be in context for a true date to be established. That's the one problem with archaeology...if it's not found in place, there is only so much that can be assertained from whatever you find, as it merely is a guess at that point. Hopefully the hole that was dug isn't too mammoth and there is still some part of the 'site' left intact. Either way, you will have some really nice artifacts. My good friend I went to undergrad and grad school with is a lithics specialist, so if you want an opinion, just let me know.

Phil

 

[John Silvered]

I just do not get the desire to see nobody selling "relics" So metal detector folk work for many hours upon hours...cleaning our land of 14,000,000 beer can tabs and then hit something "sellable" and they should not? Why? We haven't had metal for very long in this nation. Our written history is older than our use of metal in America. So what I am saying...is that you can read about every single stage of the European settlements in the Americas. All the OLD native civilization material...would not show up on detectors (which do not go very deep in the ground to start with) The detectors mechanical limits prevent enthusiasts from going too far back in time.

Universities regularly buy relics off markets and auctions. Why? Because they have money...and someone else invested the time. They make a trade. Time for money. Sounds like the most basic form of human interaction between different groups of people. Trade.

Archaeologists get paid...right? Work for money? Money for work? Imagine that.

 

[N.J.THer]

I'm not able to read this entire thread right now but I wanted to post a quick comment...I will read the rest later.

I have always had a good relationship with the local archaeologists. This goes for state and university. I'm also part of a group that already does the weekend digs on state and private sites normally closed to detectorists. We assist the archeologists by not only locating artifacts, recording their locations and in some instances interpreting the data. Our group is called Battlefield Restoration and Archaeological Volunteer Organization (B.R.A.V.O.). Through our metal detecting we have corrected the written history of certain battles and campsites. Proving certain points correct and others wrong by the location of different artifacts. In the heat of a battle or over the course of time even first person accounts are not always accurate so that is where archaeology can assit in tell the story.

Our work does go much further then just the in field digs. Our group has paid for the creation of the replica French 4lb cannon in front of the visitor center at Monmouth Battlefield. We paid for the professional preservation of artifacts we found at a private site in Valley Forge then paid to have them properly displayed. We often have archaeologists that are told by the state that they can't buy ink for the printer or proper acid free storage containers request us to buy it for them which we usually do. We offer grants to archaeology students to help them with their gradute projects. All of this is accomplished through our metal detecting and the money we earn from it. www.bravodigs.org

We do need some open minded laws like what they have in Europe so everyone knows and understands the rules of the game. We should also have a publicly accessable database like they have. Some sites should be protected and preserved but this should not be a blanket ruling over all state and federal land. Detectorist and archaeologist should work together since we can benefit each other. Much like how the professional fishermen help the underwater archaeologists find good sites, our numbers could help find those sites that should be protected on land but also open up the rest that are just old homesteads or the like with no real historic value. If a site is located then the person the found it should be allowed to help in its excavation and not cut out of the process.

The above is just my own opinion but I feel it is fair to both sides and could help all of us accomplish much more then just banging our heads together like we do now.

NJ

 

[Jon Phillips]

Easttrail, you wrote:


"I've tried to make clear this whole time that I don't think detectorists are "bad". If I thought that, I wouldn't have come here in the first place. For the record, a lot of archaeologists don't consider those old guys real archaeologists - they're called "antiquarians". And there are definitely movements to repatriate antiquities to their countries of origin. It happens all the time. Stuff's constantly getting shipped back from museums to where it was stolen from."


"Those old guys" are a reference to an earlier post on Egyptologists, and early archaeologists, and the grave robbing and looting that was the norm at the time. You indicate that many, if not most, current archaeologists don't consider them archaeologists...but most were. I mean...they actually "wrote the books", right? A lot of them did anyway. They were the state of the art, and cutting edge of research, and field techniques at their time. Now it was a time where the doctor delivering your baby might be smoking a cigarette at the time!

Now it may seem like those days were a long time ago...but... the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act was enacted in 1990....not that long ago. That means it took federal action (and grant money...SHOCKINGLY!!), just a few years ago...on current museums, universities, and state employed archaeologists, to make them return items removed from graves...including human remains. So it's not that far removed...In fact...you can watch NatGeo, the various History Channels, and Discovery, etc., on about any day, and see currently produced shows full of graves being opened, and remains and items being stored in plastic tubs in some university somewhere...just not necessarily American Indians anymore.

And I would imagine most of those other items being returned from museums to their country of origin are more than likely a result of lawsuits rather than "doing the right thing".

My point is....For any archaeologists to label any metal detectorist (that isn't actually breaking the law by detecting at a historical park, etc.), or a point collector (that isn't digging into a grave, etc.), a "looter" or "grave robber", is extremely hypocritical, when it was the cornerstone of the archaeological profession for quite a while!

You don't want that label on you, because it doesn't describe you or your colleagues, right?
We don't want it on us either, but it is freely handed out by many of your colleagues!

Your colleagues can't hold us responsible for the actions of a few criminals any more than we could hold them responsible for the actions of their predecessors, that filled their displays.

When the "powers that be" can stop transferring their guilt or whatever is going on there..."deflection" I guess...to us, and stop worrying about us owning things that they admit that they don't really care about, as far as site information is concerned, maybe we could find common ground like with the paleantologists.

So you see...there is nothing we can do.

The ball is 100% in "your" court. It will take a "change of the guard" I'm afraid. I just don't see those hate spewing, heads of departments, and their brainwashed minions that think a person with a detector detroys stone walls, and the answer to all site preservation is to ban detectors outright instead of fighting developement of the site by construction companies, will EVER, reverse a viewpoint they have rammed home so hard for so long.....

Just as you don't think detectorist are "bad", I don't think archaeologists are "bad". I think many are biased, and mis-informed, and I don't care for the ones that don't "produce" anything...or the ones that try to act like something is newly discovered, or important, when it isn't....just to get grant money.

 

[MinerGirl]

Hi Phil,

Thanks...I'm getting it looked at and see what they say and let you know. When I post a Pic I'd love to hear your friend's opinion.

The "Site" is actually the whole town..Ha...but 2 feet next to where it was discovered is undisturbed...Haven't even planted grass on it...wish I'd studied the Weeds that came up though!! There were some pretty Strange ones for sure! It looked like "Pre-Historic Forrest"..Haha

MinerGirl

 

[Terry Soloman]

Well, that was deep. No wonder you guys act like morons on camera.. You are just being you. Learn to spell, go back to selling detectors, and stay off the airwaves - please.

I have no interest in representing you. You do a good enough job of that on your own. I say I would out hunt you because your detrol and aleve would probably quit working after an hour or so. After reading some of your posts its pretty clear that your just another closed minded geriatric that likes to argue with people more than anything. Mind your words buddy.

 

[montanagold]

I could do this all day but alas it aint worth it. You win. We are idiots and you are awsome. I give in.

 

[ticm]

Well, that was deep. No wonder you guys act like morons on camera.. You are just being you. Learn to spell, go back to selling detectors, and stay off the airwaves - please.

So it's detector guy against detector guy. The posters thread is working just fine for him.

 

[kayden]

Hi east trail ....Boy do I got a job for you...All you gotta do is show up & observe...& hell they might even buy you lunch!

 

[montanagold]

Looks like we got another great member to represent us, and you wonder why you have been banned at other sites. Hey theres a facebook page detectorists agianst diggers you can go on and say all the crap you want about us. I think theres like 40 people that are very colorful and rude, youll love it. Its like heaven for those that feel so awsome about calling us idiots. Enjoy ;0)

 

[DeadElvis]

Well, I've trudged through this entire thread and since I'm new to this hobby, take my words with the spoonful of salt they come with.

I'm not sure MD hobbyists NEED your olive branch. Federal (or state) funded archeologists work on the government payroll. Go dig Gettysburg or the Battle of Sharpsburg (Antietam if you prefer), and other federal or state-seized land. We (I) have no problem with that. In fact, I guess we have no choice.

I find it ironic that a Canadian - God love him - posted the obvious:

This is a crazy thread. I feel bad for detectorists in the U.S.. What's with all the drama down there in the States? I'm so glad that issues concerning detecting in Canada are waaay less intense. You're government needs to relax and focus on more important issues...

Credit: J. Cache

I suspect archaeologists, state or federally funded, are acting out of a sense of self-preservation when they speak out against hobbyists. The truth is, a man digging up shot or dropped minie balls and belt buckles poses no threat to "history". Here's to decreased funding. We as taxpayers can't afford it.

I speak, of course, only for myself.

DE

 

[baspinall]

Knew this was going to be a long one

 

[lookindown]

Your argument would have had a lot of credibility had you not sold out and tried to profit off the rest of us with your lame and ill-thought out metal detecting show. Let's all take a moment to remember what actually set off this firestorm. PAH-LEASE, stop insulting us and trying to be part of this community. You threw that away and brought a lot of stuff down on the rest of us. BOOOOM Baby! Why don't you and Randy Savage duke it out to see who is "The Biggest Loser."

Terry dont speak for me, I like the show. Where do you get off telling someone to stop trying to be part of this community? A lot of people on here dont like you so why dont you take your own advice, stop insulting us and quit trying to be part of this community.

 

[Hot zone]

Archeologists have know about the White River Massacre in Wa state since the early 1900s when bones were discovered. The National Forest Archaes claimed the bones were in too poor of a state to make a determination. Another attempt should be made today. Metal detectorests would be invaluable in determining how the mass murder was accomplished. We owe it to the. Yakima Indian Nation to investigate, protect and acknowledge a real historically significant site, while the house pits are still in tact. It ain't gonna happen. You will continue to mess with someone picking up an arrowhead in a plowed field.