Archaic and Paleo

[ink-a-alot]

I have found a site here in East Texas area, and all I find mostly is real crude points and blanks that im told are
from the Archaic and paleo period; I have found One Real nice point at this site, and hundreds of crude blanks.
Most are the same style, I have only found 1 pot sherd there aswell. What i would like to know is what kind of camp
this was and if they were pre Caddo? The place im researching is up on a bluff that is about 15 foot high and below is a small creek that mostly is dry except a few small spots that hold water. I would also like to know what kind of homes these
Paleo indians lived in so that I can imagine in my mind how they looked on this bluff. Can anyone here tale me more or give
me some information and their opinion about what I'm finding here?? Could there be Pottery or are these a people that didnot
make pottery? I have found some charcoal about 3 foot down. The flint is mostly red but sometimes i find black and white flint that could have been traded and ended up at this place.. could this just be a pit stop for hunters or what. The first point is the
best that i have found at this place can yall help me ID these points, and I hope yall can see the pot sherd well and hopefully I
can learn more about the time frame im looking at here.

 

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[Tnmountains]

You are probably on an early woodland maybe late Archiac site. For it to qualify as paleo just a few things happen. Later cultures many things happened one being pottery. If you pull a lot of unifaced items that still will not mean paleo unless you find it in context with a paleo style piece or part of one. You have asked some good questions I also wonder about. Identify your points and start with the time frame from there is my humble opinion. Good luck on your site and keep us informed.
TnMtns

 

[Jonnyreb]

Good to see you again Josh. I'd have to say that is definately "Pre Caddo". The serrated point looks to be Moltley related. The other stuff there looks like Gary related. Its just like Tenn. said, its Late archaic/woodland. In E. Texas and what was later Caddo country, that culture would be called "Fourche Maline". The potsherd is of course typical of that early pottery type. As far as dwellings, they would have been circular, but probably not as refined as the later Caddoan ones. There is a website called Tejas Caddo Ancestors that will help you a lot in your questions. That is a NICE point btw.
My scanner dont work right now or I'd be posting those two BIG spears I found the first part of June.

 

[bravowhiskey]

ink-a-lot,

Could that top one be a Gary? Looks similar, don't know context. I like what you are turning up in the Piney Woods.

BW

 

[ink-a-alot]

Good to see you again Josh. I'd have to say that is definately "Pre Caddo". The serrated point looks to be Moltley related. The other stuff there looks like Gary related. Its just like Tenn. said, its Late archaic/woodland. In E. Texas and what was later Caddo country, that culture would be called "Fourche Maline". The potsherd is of course typical of that early pottery type. As far as dwellings, they would have been circular, but probably not as refined as the later Caddoan ones. There is a website called Tejas Caddo Ancestors that will help you a lot in your questions. That is a NICE point btw.
My scanner dont work right now or I'd be posting those two BIG spears I found the first part of June.

Thanks for the help, my Buddy stepped right over that top Gary Point lol. Do you think I should keep digging this spot?
Ive never seen so much flint its all over the place. Ive found a bluff about 50 yards away and it looks suspect I might try it.

 

[Atlantis0077]

Afternoon,

Yep late to middle archaic site. Gary points and a nice stemmed Lange perhaps. Pottery wont be a paleo marker as paleo artifacts predate pottery by several thousand years. Not to say you wont find pottery and paleo points together as indians tended to use the same sights over many years so overlapping occurs. If the soil is right, you can actually find paleo points and pottery in the same shovel of dirt. I have done it in more than one site...has to do with how artifacts stratify.

As for houses, the paleo indian tended to move about more than more recent peoples. So conventional wisdom says they didnt have permanent or semi permanent structural homes, but rather mobile dwellings that could be set up and taken down and moved with game and seasons. The Caddo people on the other hand did have houses and permanent village areas as evidenced by post holes for houses and numerous burn and trash pits.

Your bluff overlooking a creek is perfect positioning for a site. I know you are going to be able to find some more artifacts there. Fan out from your location also...go down to the creek and look for rises near it, you may find some more sights down lower.

As a general rule paleo sights are more difficult to find because there are simply less artifacts to be seen...no pottery, fewer chips and fewer points. I was fortunate in my younger years to find a site with a strong paleo component. Quite by accident....it was a hillside on which I found a few points....it was only years later I found out they were OLD points....I went back and did more extensive excavations of the sight and found quite a few points. But even with a good paleo site, you are likely find your "dirt moved" to "points found" ratio is skewed in the dirt's favor....LOL.

Happy Hunting,

Atlantis

 

[ink-a-alot]

Afternoon,

Yep late to middle archaic site. Gary points and a nice stemmed Lange perhaps. Pottery wont be a paleo marker as paleo artifacts predate pottery by several thousand years. Not to say you wont find pottery and paleo points together as indians tended to use the same sights over many years so overlapping occurs. If the soil is right, you can actually find paleo points and pottery in the same shovel of dirt. I have done it in more than one site...has to do with how artifacts stratify.

As for houses, the paleo indian tended to move about more than more recent peoples. So conventional wisdom says they didnt have permanent or semi permanent structural homes, but rather mobile dwellings that could be set up and taken down and moved with game and seasons. The Caddo people on the other hand did have houses and permanent village areas as evidenced by post holes for houses and numerous burn and trash pits.

Your bluff overlooking a creek is perfect positioning for a site. I know you are going to be able to find some more artifacts there. Fan out from your location also...go down to the creek and look for rises near it, you may find some more sights down lower.

As a general rule paleo sights are more difficult to find because there are simply less artifacts to be seen...no pottery, fewer chips and fewer points. I was fortunate in my younger years to find a site with a strong paleo component. Quite by accident....it was a hillside on which I found a few points....it was only years later I found out they were OLD points....I went back and did more extensive excavations of the sight and found quite a few points. But even with a good paleo site, you are likely find your "dirt moved" to "points found" ratio is skewed in the dirt's favor....LOL.

Happy Hunting,

Atlantis
[/quote took your advice and hit another spot looks good, flint all over the top of the ground.

 

[Atlantis0077]

Excellent......I only take a 10% override of relics found for my advice...LOL.

Good luck, perseverance pays off.

Atlantis

 

[ink-a-alot]

Excellent......I only take a 10% override of relics found for my advice...LOL.

Good luck, perseverance pays off.

Atlantis

thank's to all that has helped me on this post

I think I will realy look this place over in the next few days and I will keep yall posted on my finds. thanks again

 

[Th3rty7]

Excellent......I only take a 10% override of relics found for my advice...LOL.

Good luck, perseverance pays off.

Atlantis

thank's to all that has helped me on this post

I think I will realy look this place over in the next few days and I will keep yall posted on my finds. thanks again

I'd hit that spot hard Ink, you pulled some nice out of it, thanks for sharing your finds.