Are these what I hope they are? And any idea on the rest?

[DownEast_Detecting]

So as soon as canonballguy made my day, by informing me I had found a US army shoulder belt plate. Needless to say I went back to the exact lot in this large abandoned town and starting searching. On my very first plug I pulled #1 out and when I went to check the hole before filling it in. #2 was staring up at me. Obviously they must of come off the same jacket, pants, shirt, etc. looks like the original thread/string is still on #2. I?m hoping these are military? And related to the eagle breastplate found 10 feet away. I already found someone with the same last name from the lot on the topo map, from the same town who was in the 16th Maine regiment. Was really hoping for the 20th and little round top. Although looks like the 16th was at Gettysburg and many other notable battles of the civil war. But I would need to do a lot more research to link everything. And still never know for sure if it was this person who dropped or through away their war stuff. It?s definitely a house lot with the same last name and same town. But are these buttons civil war era? Everything else was found on the same property lot. Except 6 and 7 which were in the nearby old main road, now a footpath.





I can make out most of the back it?s says something like WATERBUR* something something and SCOVIsomething something. I have only dry brushed #1 and dampened the back to try to make out the lettering. #2 i haven?t touched yet. Best way to clean distilled water and brush? should I clean? Can I get the glint back or will it come off. Excited to find 2 of the same button in the same hole.



Plate for a box or chest? Was hoping there would be some letters or design of some kind.









And as always thank you.

 

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[Lenrac2]

Great finds!! The experts will be here soon!

 

[villagenut]

1 and 2 are scovills waterbury Infantry buttons.......civil war. 4 is a drawer pull escutcheon from house site.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Your buttons (plural) backmark saying "Scovill Co./Waterbury in indented lettering dates from 1840 to 1850. according to the best book on time-dating button backmarks... "American Military Button Makers and Dealers; Their Backmarks & Dates" by McGuinn & Bazelon.

That being said... in this case, I must disagree with McGuinn & Bazelon's time-dating, for two reasons:
1- Besides being written in indented lettering (instead of raised lettering), the backmark is encircled by two rings of dots -- a characteristic on Scovill buttons made from the 1850s-to-1875 -- never on 1840s Scovill buttons.
2- The very-precisely-symmetrical shape of the spread-winged eagle is the 1854-1874 version for US Army eagle-buttons.

ID of the buttons themselves:
They are cuff-size US Army Infantry officer buttons. You might want to (gently) clean them, because being officer buttons would have been goldplated. I recommend soaking in a 50/50 mix of ammonia and water for about 3 minutes, then use a toothbrush dipped in the ammonia to gently scrub the button's face. Might need a second soak. Then rinse them THOROUGHLY under running water.

The fact that your two US Infantry officer cuff-buttons, found in the same hole, with thread still in the loop on one, strongly indicates they were indeed on the uniform's sleeve when they were discarded. I suggest you do some research on that house-site's past owners. to see if one was an Army Infantry officer.

Being officer's buttons means they are not associated with the US Army Enlisted-man's shoulder-belt "eagle breastplate" you found a few feet away. (Officers did not wear that particular version of shoulder-belt plate.)

 

[DCMatt]

Number 6 & 7 look like an old "link and pin" coupler. Used to hook railcars together back in the 19th C. However, yours are way too small for a railcar. Maybe they used a similar set up for wagons? I don't know...

 

[DownEast_Detecting]

Your buttons (plural) backmark saying "Scovill Co./Waterbury in indented lettering dates from 1840 to 1850. according to the best book on time-dating button backmarks... "American Military Button Makers and Dealers; Their Backmarks & Dates" by McGuinn & Bazelon.

That being said... in this case, I must disagree with McGuinn & Bazelon's time-dating, for two reasons:
1- Besides being written in indented lettering (instead of raised lettering), the backmark is encircled by two rings of dots -- a characteristic on Scovill buttons made from the 1850s-to-1875 -- never on 1840s Scovill buttons.
2- The very-precisely-symmetrical shape of the spread-winged eagle is the 1854-1874 version for US Army eagle-buttons.

ID of the buttons themselves:
They are cuff-size US Army Infantry officer buttons. You might want to (gently) clean them, because being officer buttons would have been goldplated. I recommend soaking in a 50/50 mix of ammonia and water for about 3 minutes, then use a toothbrush dipped in the ammonia to gently scrub the button's face. Might need a second soak. Then rinse them THOROUGHLY under running water.

The fact that your two US Infantry officer cuff-buttons, found in the same hole, with thread still in the loop on one, strongly indicates they were indeed on the uniform's sleeve when they were discarded. I suggest you do some research on that house-site's past owners. to see if one was an Army Infantry officer.

Being officer's buttons means they are not associated with the US Army Enlisted-man's shoulder-belt "eagle breastplate" you found a few feet away. (Officers did not wear that particular version of shoulder-belt plate.)

Thank you so much. You are a wealth of information.
Cleaned them using the above method here?s how they look now.


Is this button rare since it wasn?t in your book? And only officers wore the coats with this on them? I?ll definitely be doing more research on civil war soldiers from this abandoned town and the specific house site where it was found.

 

[DownEast_Detecting]

Number 6 & 7 look like an old "link and pin" coupler. Used to hook railcars together back in the 19th C. However, yours are way too small for a railcar. Maybe they used a similar set up for wagons? I don't know...

Thanks.. I figured they had something to do with a wagon, ox or horse since they were found in the old Main Street. I was just hoping someone had seen them before or knew exactly what they were. #7 did have another small piece of metal going through it. Like a nail size, that was bent in a way that looked like the bigger oval piece could of been hanging from it.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

> Is this button rare since it wasn't in your book?

1- The only books I've written were about civil war (and earlier) artillery projectiles.
2- The best book on American Military uniform buttons was written by Alphaeus H. Albert. (So, almost everybody call's it simply "the Albert button-book.) It contains many hundreds of closeup photos of American uniform buttons (including Confederate). But Mr. Albert chose not to include photos of the cuff-size buttons, because their front is identical or very-nearly-identical to the coat-size version. Unfortunately, that means he also usually does not mention the backmark on cuff-size buttons.

> And only officers wore the coats with this on them?

The "eagle-with-shield-on-chest" US Army buttons first appeared in 1821. From then until 1854, both officers and Enlisted-men's ranks (private, corporal, sergeant) wore buttons which had the initial of their branch of service (Infantry, Artillery, Cavalry, etc.) in the shield. But from 1854 onwward, only Officers wore the shield-with-initial buttons. (For Enlisted-men, the shield showed only stripes, no letter.)

> Is this button rare [...]

Comments on "Rarity":
1- There were (of course) far fewer officers than enlisted-men. So officer buttons are much rarer than enlisted-men's buttons.
2- The Infantry greatly outnumbered the US Army's other branches of service. So, an Infantry officer button is not nearly as rare as an Artillery officer, or Cavalry officer, etc.

> I'll definitely be doing more research on civil war soldiers from this abandoned town and the specific house site where it was found.

Please do that. When you find answers, please come back and report them to us. Some people here (including me) really love to hear the "provenance" of a dug Military relic... such as, what specific unit was using it at the spot where it was dug. Historical records on a house site could even indicat6e WHO (the specific soldier) who used it.

 

[Retired Sarge]

> Is this button rare since it wasn't in your book?

1- The only books I've written were about civil war (and earlier) artillery projectiles.
2- The best book on American Military uniform buttons was written by Alphaeus H. Albert. (So, almost everybody call's it simply "the Albert button-book.) It contains many hundreds of closeup photos of American uniform buttons (including Confederate). But Mr. Albert chose not to include photos of the cuff-size buttons, because their front is identical or very-nearly-identical to the coat-size version. Unfortunately, that means he also usually does not mention the backmark on cuff-size buttons.

> And only officers wore the coats with this on them?

The "eagle-with-shield-on-chest" US Army buttons first appeared in 1821. From then until 1854, both officers and Enlisted-men's ranks (private, corporal, sergeant) wore buttons which had the initial of their branch of service (Infantry, Artillery, Cavalry, etc.) in the shield. But from 1854 onwward, only Officers wore the shield-with-initial buttons. (For Enlisted-men, the shield showed only stripes, no letter.)

> Is this button rare [...]

Comments on "Rarity":
1- There were (of course) far fewer officers than enlisted-men. So officer buttons are much rarer than enlisted-men's buttons.
2- The Infantry greatly outnumbered the US Army's other branches of service. So, an Infantry officer button is not nearly as rare as an Artillery officer, or Cavalry officer, etc.

> I'll definitely be doing more research on civil war soldiers from this abandoned town and the specific house site where it was found.

Please do that. When you find answers, please come back and report them to us. Some people here (including me) really love to hear the "provenance" of a dug Military relic... such as, what specific unit was using it at the spot where it was dug. Historical records on a house site could even indicat6e WHO (the specific soldier) who used it.

I agree with TCBG.....

Being able to hold history in your hands and connect a relic to a person or specific unit and time in history is what makes history and this hobby fun.

You are walking in the foot steps of history, what better way to get an education.

 

[erfranks]

Great Saves!!

 

[DownEast_Detecting]

Thank you SO much for taking the time canonballGuy. I really appreciate all the info.
That’s what I meant when I said “your” book. Just the one you owned I didn’t think you had written it. But that’s awesome that you have written one on artillery projectiles. I’m really into history, thats the reason I do some much relic hunting. i would love to connect them to a specific soldier. im going to do my best, but am already surprised by how little info there is on this once upon a time village on top of a hill. Only place I’ve even heard it mentioned is in old county newspapers I’ve found online. But that won’t stop me, I can just use the bigger township that this village is in. I’ll be heading to the library soon.

My question now is how to keep you updated if I do. I don’t want to bump this thread in a month. Isn’t that frowned upon?
Another question, is it is okay to post things that were in this ”what is it” in today’s finds now that I know what they are?

 

[Riverbum]

You folks on the east coast & much of Central America have it made when it comes to Metal Detecting. You have choice area's to search in. Out west here you have to plan and research everything before you start detecting because civilization didn't make it out here,generally , for about two hundred years before the east coast and central plains. Here we can't just start detecting anywhere because that's a waste of time unless you actually know a place has been occupied at one time . Minerals are something we find a lot of but nothing substantial. Every once and a while an old mining town is a great place but you'd have to find out where they are.

 

[DownEast_Detecting]

You folks on the east coast & much of Central America have it made when it comes to Metal Detecting. You have choice area's to search in. Out west here you have to plan and research everything before you start detecting because civilization didn't make it out here,generally , for about two hundred years before the east coast and central plains. Here we can't just start detecting anywhere because that's a waste of time unless you actually know a place has been occupied at one time . Minerals are something we find a lot of but nothing substantial. Every once and a while an old mining town is a great place but you'd have to find out where they are.

Yes I agree that we have much older history on the east coast. And New England is a great place for relics. But I can assure you we still have to do our research. I didn?t just stumble onto this old abandoned town. I spend hours looking over old topographical maps, historic aerials, and lidar and comparing them all to modern maps. And then sometimes I do all that just to have the property owner say there?s no way I?m letting you metal detect at my place. The only way to great finds is research.