Armchair Quarterbacking LDM Legend.. even Experts are guessing

[Azquester]

If you are correct it's a much larger story and telling it on TNet is only going to result in critical review which, is obviously frustrating you. It shouldn't. This is a great place to propose ideas as long as you have thick skin.

Go big or go home is what someone once said. So, go BIG. On not.

The story is larger. I can show some more within reason. I can take hits all day and keep standing. There lies the problem with the information I have. I never gave all of it to the Archaeologists that would have been giving away the store. My problem is that I started from a final site and worked my way outward. Or at least I hit on the final site after just a few years by accident while riding my quad one day. The juicy stuff is to sensitive to tell openly and a lot of the other info is related to the juice. Although I have posted some of the final site carvings on here they're mixed up with other photo's of various rock formations. I believe just to be open I labeled them as such to Aric. No one has even asked me about those photo's so I haven't responded to any questions on one of the most fantastic creations made by a Jesuit Warloc. Like one of my first dates when I was a young man asked me quite politely "Please ask me Questions".

And as far as going Big, I did, with shadow signs as huge as the Mountains your reading them from. It was to unbelievable for the masses.

What was it that you said?

"Unrealistic"

 

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[Hal Croves]

The story is larger. I can show some more within reason. I can take hits all day and keep standing. There lies the problem with the information I have. I never gave all of it to the Archaeologists that would have been giving away the store. My problem is that I started from a final site and worked my way outward. Or at least I hit on the final site after just a few years by accident while riding my quad one day. The juicy stuff is to sensitive to tell openly and a lot of the other info is related to the juice. Although I have posted some of the final site carvings on here they're mixed up with other photo's of various rock formations. I believe just to be open I labeled them as such to Aric. No one has even asked me about those photo's so I haven't responded to any questions on one of the most fantastic creations made by a Jesuit Warloc. Like one of my first dates when I was a young man asked me quite politely "Please ask me Questions".

And as far as going Big, I did, with shadow signs as huge as the Mountains your reading them from. It was to unbelievable for the masses.

What was it that you said?

"Unrealistic"

I also said that it was possible but not probable.
I never mocked your ideas or belittled you for having them. I only encouraged you to present a complete story with supporting evidence. You are either unwilling to make the effort or simply can't.

If people are disinterested in what you have to say then you must either forget about them or try another approach. Last time, it's a fascinating story that if true, deserves a well thought presentation.

I have not seen that yet.

 

[BuffaloBob]

I quoted the text as written in 1898. If you are asking me to guess I would guess it was the crude dam that fed the irrigation canals. It can not be any of the current dams.

I have a note of a Limonite Dike...
Jesuit Treasure Found Here 1943

Is this what you guys are looking for?
BB

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

LDM = Lotsa Dramma Momma

 

[Azquester]

I also said that it was possible but not probable.
I never mocked your ideas or belittled you for having them. I only encouraged you to present a complete story with supporting evidence. You are either unwilling to make the effort or simply can't.

If people are disinterested in what you have to say then you must either forget about them or try another approach. Last time, it's a fascinating story that if true, deserves a well thought presentation.

I have not seen that yet.

No Hal, you never mocked me you shot me straight for what you can see. The story complete that's in the hands of the Vatican I would assume.
You actually did believe the drill hole sites and the possibility they were Massacre sites which I appreciated. They most probably are with no documentation of support. Even though there may be something somewhere in history or Archives of the Indies.
The evidence I presented even shocked me as I had never before gave it any thought about the unusual drill sites being related to the Indian Attacks.

Since this is the lost History of a secret religion or cult of free masons with a Knights Templar theme they taught by word of mouth only. So it explains the lack of the documents we both so desire as I'm sure everyone would love to see. All I have proof of is the aftermath of those secret documents written in a language other than ours and taught in a system utilizing the Sun as a writing tool. Unwilling to make the effort? Apparently you don't realize or know the amount of time it takes to highlight, crop, cut then shrink the photos for presentation. Then do the magic without giving out to much saving the good from the evil.

I have tons of those already done to some degree I can dump them on here if you like? You may not see it well and it may be a sloppy and a informative presentation but I have made a gallant effort to caption with circles the area's in question on my photo's just for that purpose.


If you look at my photo's I've posted so far it's almost 100 I think that's a good presentation I believe you're the one that's not making the effort to look and read beyond this Lost Dutchman thread at what I've already posted under signs and symbols.

Modern equipment like a GPR or VLF survey uses data converted into a two or three dimensional image on a computer screen. They simply used the three dimensional world we live in to create a two dimensional effect. I wonder how Archaeologists would produce documents from Chaco Canyon or other civilizations that have vanished with no known documentation or writing. They don't because there is none. They reverse the sites from within just as I have attempted to do. Through study, survey photographs, interpretation, and patience they learn what transpired thousands of years ago. You probably wouldn't give it any thought to believe their findings as being official documentation of what transpired and what happened to that ruined city.

Why Not I?

 

[Hal Croves]

No Hal, you never mocked me you shot me straight for what you can see. The story complete that's in the hands of the Vatican I would assume.
You actually did believe the drill hole sites and the possibility they were Massacre sites which I appreciated. They most probably are with no documentation of support. Even though there may be something somewhere in history or Archives of the Indies.
The evidence I presented even shocked me as I had never before gave it any thought about the unusual drill sites being related to the Indian Attacks.

Since this is the lost History of a secret religion or cult of free masons with a Knights Templar theme they taught by word of mouth only. So it explains the lack of the documents we both so desire as I'm sure everyone would love to see. All I have proof of is the aftermath of those secret documents written in a language other than ours and taught in a system utilizing the Sun as a writing tool. Unwilling to make the effort? Apparently you don't realize or know the amount of time it takes to highlight, crop, cut then shrink the photos for presentation. Then do the magic without giving out to much saving the good from the evil.

I have tons of those already done to some degree I can dump them on here if you like? You may not see it well and it may be a sloppy and a informative presentation but I have made a gallant effort to caption with circles the area's in question on my photo's just for that purpose.


If you look at my photo's I've posted so far it's almost 100 I think that's a good presentation I believe you're the one that's not making the effort to look and read beyond this Lost Dutchman thread at what I've already posted under signs and symbols.

Modern equipment like a GPR or VLF survey uses data converted into a two or three dimensional image on a computer screen. They simply used the three dimensional world we live in to create a two dimensional effect. I wonder how Archaeologists would produce documents from Chaco Canyon or other civilizations that have vanished with no known documentation or writing. They don't because there is none. They reverse the sites from within just as I have attempted to do. Through study, survey photographs, interpretation, and patience they learn what transpired thousands of years ago. You probably wouldn't give it any thought to believe their findings as being official documentation of what transpired and what happened to that ruined city.

Why Not I?

Masonic history is something that I am heavily invested in which, is why I encouraged you to present a conclusive argument. I am not ready to share my thoughts on the topic here, openly, because it is controversial and when I tell that story, I want to tell it in its entirety, and intelligently. Masonry in years past was something wholly different than it survives today and most people, most Masons even don't understand what happen when the Spanish reached the New World.

I encourage you to tell your story but on a much grander scale and complete.
It's a fascinating story that should be told.

People came to the New World by ship long before Columbus.

Hueco Tanks. Texas

 

[Azquester]

Masonic history is something that I am heavily invested in which, is why I encouraged you to present a conclusive argument. I am not ready to share my thoughts on the topic here, openly, because it is controversial and when I tell that story, I want to tell it in its entirety, and intelligently. Masonry in years past was something wholly different than it survives today and most people, most Masons even don't understand what happen when the Spanish reached the New World.

I encourage you to tell your story but on a much grander scale and complete.
It's a fascinating story that should be told.

People came to the New World by ship long before Columbus.

Hueco Tanks. Texas

I'm partial to diffusion of the America's to.

Like you I don't like to discuss the deeper aspects of Free Masonry openly which is part of what I'm presenting. So you see my point.
It seems you would like me to openly show the early free masonry that I've been posting but you won't talk about it yourself? Controversial to say the least! Showing how brutal Free Mason's were in those days working hand and hand with the Vatican to plunder all the riches of the West Indies with Indian Slaves would be very upsetting to a lot of people. Today Free Mason's are part of the good in society without them my oldest Daughter would have been a cripple most of her life as she was born with a birth defect and the Shriners operated on her saving her from a wheel chair.

Back then they were slave masters that drove the indigenes populations of conquered lands almost to extinction.

A lot of my work as I uncovered has found it's way purely by accident but there none the less from Chuck Kenworthy's work.
One photo in particular shows a stairway cut into the bedrock leading up to what could possibly be a Treasure room or Gold mine.
Chuck's book has the same and if I remember what Tiger told me I believe they removed a large amount of gold from that sealed room high on a peak. If that's true I may have snapped a photo of another Treasure Room in a different area removed from Chucks mountain in the Superstition's.






View attachment 1129787

 

[Hal Croves]

I'm partial to diffusion of the America's to.

Like you I don't like to discuss the deeper aspects of Free Masonry openly which is part of what I'm presenting. So you see my point.
It seems you would like me to openly show the early free masonry that I've been posting but you won't talk about it yourself? Controversial to say the least! Showing how brutal Free Mason's were in those days working hand and hand with the Vatican to plunder all the riches of the West Indies with Indian Slaves would be very upsetting to a lot of people. Today Free Mason's are part of the good in society without them my oldest Daughter would have been a cripple most of her life as she was born with a birth defect and the Shriners operated on her saving her from a wheel chair.

Back then they were slave masters that drove the indigenes populations of conquered lands almost to extinction.

A lot of my work as I uncovered has found it's way purely by accident but there none the less from Chuck Kenworthy's work.
One photo in particular shows a stairway cut into the bedrock leading up to what could possibly be a Treasure room or Gold mine.
Chuck's book has the same and if I remember what Tiger told me I believe they removed a large amount of gold from that sealed room high on a peak. If that's true I may have snapped a photo of another Treasure Room in a different area removed from Chucks mountain in the Superstition's.






View attachment 1129787

Openly, not now. If I started I would only receive the same response that you are experiencing. Which is why I am waiting. But I will say this. While some people here dismiss what you are writing about, I can say that some of your ideas are correct. I can't explain your Terrascaping evidence but the lineage that you are alluding to is very real.

I will leave it at this. There was a form of Masonry in the New World long before the arrival of the Spanish. This is the next chapter in our history that's just now beginning to be understood. Which is why people like you and I must cross our I's and dot our T's.

 

[BuffaloBob]

Finally, we say, it is clear that the roots of Freemasonry stretch back to the Order of Templars, and that the Masons have adopted the philosophy of this order. Masons themselves accept this. (For further reading, see "Global Freemasonry" by Harun Yahya)

y Harun Yahya

The common perception of the majority of historians of Freemasonry is that the origin of the organization goes back to the Crusades. In fact, though Masonry was only officially established and recognized in England in the early eighteenth century, the roots of the organization do reach back to the Crusades in the twelfth century. At the center of this familiar tale is an order of crusaders called the Knights Templar or the Templars.
​

​

I have a few Masonic Friendss. who volunter their time and money to help the community. I have no other connection or knowledge about Masons than what I read.
Almost every successful politician, are 33rd degree masons. Not certain how that differs but there seem to be common rules:
Never Tell The TRuth
Never testify against a fellow member.
The higher you go the more is revealed.
BB
The Origin of Freemasonry: The Crusaders & Templars (by Harun Yahya) - Media Monitors Network

 

[Azquester]

I have a few Masonic Friendss. who volunter their time and money to help the community. I have no other connection or knowledge about Masons than what I read.
Almost every successful politician, are 33rd degree masons. Not certain how that differs but there seem to be common rules:
Never Tell The TRuth
Never testify against a fellow member.
The higher you go the more is revealed.
BB
The Origin of Freemasonry: The Crusaders & Templars (by Harun Yahya) - Media Monitors Network

Lost History Buffalo Lost History.

The Masons were once great and followed what we now know to be a Christian order by day and Satanic order by Knight.

Someone should start a subject line on here for that very story.

Other Legends come to mind like the Mine with the Iron Door and the Treasures of Tumacacori both older legends then the Dutchman.

Your right though most modern Masons have ties to shady deals but still some are good hearted.

 

[deducer]

A kickstarter project to find the LDM for you

 

[sdcfia]

A kickstarter project to find the LDM for you

What, another LDM map? Well, at least she's guaranteeing "rewards".

 

[Hal Croves]

A kickstarter project to find the LDM for you

Not a good sign when you start using other peoples images commercially without due credit.

 

[deducer]

What, another LDM map? Well, at least she's guaranteeing "rewards".

Another Google-earther, as well.

Trying to make money off these kind of maps just like Julia Thomas did; some things never change.

 

[Hal Croves]

Another Google-earther, as well.

Trying to make money off these kind of maps just like Julia Thomas did; some things never change.

Poor Google Earth. It's just a map program, like any other "paper" map. The advantage is that it is time based and allows one to view seasonal and man made changes.

Will it lead you to the DLM? No, but it will help you to understand the geography at a distance and if you already know where the DLM is, as so many people here claim, then it can be used to plan you way in and your way out.

A word of caution here. Summer heat will be here soon. The television exposure this legend is getting will most likely drive a few poorly prepared hopefuls into the SWA. If you are reading this, and that is you I am describing, PLEASE, Please, study your maps (digital or paper) and then study them again. One mile of SWA trail on any map is more like three. Water is limited in the summer and you must carry your supply to be safe. Don't underestimate the difficulty involved and don't go it alone. A locator device is a sound investment but hiring a guide is even smarter.

Be kind to the fauna and flora and leave no trace. It's one of the most beautiful places in the world to explore.

 

[Cubfan64]

A couple things I would add based on Hal's suggestions and based on the first trip I took to the Superstitions 9 years or so ago (hard to believe it's been that long now!).

1. If it's your first trip in the desert mountains, stay on the trails or at least don't wander out of sight of a trail.

2. If you can do it, go out the first few times (especially if you are planning on going off trail) with someone who's been out there before - don't go alone.

 

[BuffaloBob]

A couple things I would add based on Hal's suggestions and based on the first trip I took to the Superstitions 9 years or so ago (hard to believe it's been that long now!).

1. If it's your first trip in the desert mountains, stay on the trails or at least don't wander out of sight of a trail.

2. If you can do it, go out the first few times (especially if you are planning on going off trail) with someone who's been out there before - don't go alone.

On a high country, solo Grouse hunt, left my maps and compass in the car. Only going up a small flattop mesa. Half hour.. get a bird and go home. Winter time snaow covered but I knew the area well. Closest peaks alway told which direction was to the car. Untilll
\
Blizzard started while I bas beyond the aspens in a meadow. Headed back but then peaks disappeared. Low cloud cover... No sense of direction. Panickeddd and began running though back tracks. Till they covered with snow.

I did know that panic is never good. Found a latge Spruce with overhanging branches, crawled under and was quite comfortable from the storm. Had a candy and smoked a cigar. Relaxed enought to realize the mesa was rounish. Walk ttttany direction and I will find an edge. I did, recognized where the horse trail was,and survived. No more lone trips of any sort. That was long ago and in another snow covered hills, went with my isial hunting buddyu. Smarter..

We usually hunt each perimeter of black timber hoping a bird or two will spook. I got to my end but Joe never shows up? So I double back on side to find him stuck. Snow covered a coyote den hole. His foot and boot slid in and jammed pretty tight. Wether he could have dug himself alone I don't know. **** just happens. Best lesson we both learned was never hunt alone. Or when we do, leave a note and direction you are haeding. Maybe dogs can smell your body..

Wait it got worse:
Solo Rabbit hunting around the PAWNEE BUTTES Area, I parked on top. Usually a good place for coyote hunters. Passed a couple..

Parked the car, went to thje eastern edge for a look-see and fell. Fell backwards dowj a steep slope thta ended in a straight drop. Hit my head, lost my glasses and ended up close to the edge. Hurt all over.. Checked my legs for damage, no breaks. I have fat bones.

Managed to crawl uphill to the car. Got a spare pair of glasses and some minor first aid. Head slightly split. Then the twp dog hunters pulled. They watched me caertwheel down the cliff and were certain it was a fatality. No I was OK to drive to the nearest hospital for insrance purposes. Got sewed up and went home. Other tha my near drowning with another buddy, that's how it goes sometimes. Campfire stories GROW a little but these were a fact.
BB

 

[Azquester]

A couple things I would add based on Hal's suggestions and based on the first trip I took to the Superstitions 9 years or so ago (hard to believe it's been that long now!).

1. If it's your first trip in the desert mountains, stay on the trails or at least don't wander out of sight of a trail.

2. If you can do it, go out the first few times (especially if you are planning on going off trail) with someone who's been out there before - don't go alone.

You don't need to go off trail Cuban, Joe, just use my handy new invention the worlds longest metal detector!

View attachment 1130458 View attachment 1130459

Just like Hal always says go big or don't go at all!!

Size does matter!

 

[BuffaloBob]

JESUIT TREASURE DEATH TRAPS...
Treasure Map Facsimile

The treasure was found in 1943. Presumedly safe to check the area but I do not guarantee it.
The LIMONITE DIKE crossed from north to south, damming water behind it. This is a WATER DEATH trap. After locating the entrance the water must be drained. Into the river. Then excavation could start. IMHO there are always more traps inside. Check out GE and the old map here and use your imagination...http://www.minersgallery.com/product/native-silver-in-limonite-from-arizona/

N 33.44581 W 111.37912
See the high water mark in the canyon?
See the origin of the fill material
See the trail above the mine.
When persons disappear you just don't know. A few legends have people falling through cave ceilings.
One treasure site I'm looking at talks about 240 donkey wagonloads, filled with Gold and Silver entering the Superstitions and never came out or came out empty. That is the real treasure worth looking for.

Big enough to be protected. How much money would you spend to gusrd the treasuire? Unknown value but certainly Billions.

Ask yourself could they manually haul 240 wagons of gold to higher
ground? Or dig complex caverns in places the casual hiker never goes? If govt knows (as I believe they do) treasure may still be stored. Danger everywhere. A fun mind game fopr me.

BTW anyone interested documenting the Black Top Mesa mine?
BB

 

[BuffaloBob]

You don't need to go off trail Cuban, Joe, just use my handy new invention the worlds longest metal detector!

View attachment 1130458 View attachment 1130459

Just like Hal always says go big or don't go at all!!

Size does matter!

LOVE IT.. Mine is not as long but way fatter. Great idea thought. Like PVC Pipe?
BB