Attention Archeologists, Museum curators. Could be the holy grail. You tell me.

[sonofmitch]

I found this several years ago near Victoria Texas on the San Antonio river. It's made of brass or bronze and is about 11 inches across and is approximately 1/8 thick. It stands 5 inches high and has a center hole that is 3 inches in diameter. There are six other 5/8 inch holes with one in each corner of its hexagonal shape. These holes are made such that if something were inserted into them that object would stand vertically and not at any other angle than 90 degrees. It appears to be Spanish or French just 'cause I want it to be.
The way it was made was by making 6 identical pieces that were bent to the same shape to make each of the six sides and joined with rivets through the decorative strips that cover each seam. I would say that it's off of a ship, from a mission, or off of a carriage. Surely not a hubcap. Maybe a decorative base for a flagpole Then why the little holes. Six flags over Texas?? Looks hammered into shape. Each of the six pieces at one time had other pieces riveted to them which would have stuck our from the edges that you see now.

Any ideas?? Anyone

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

sonofmitch -

Just to help you out a little, I put together the following list ...

Question : Of the following, which are magnetic?

1. Bronze? ... No
2. Brass? ..... Slightly - contains about .3 of iron in alloy
3. Copper? .. No
4. Iron? ...... Yes

Additionally, I learned the following that I never knew before.

Take a crisp bill.
Fold it about 55% of the way along its length.
Lay it on a table as shown with the longer portion on the table, the shorter portion sticking up.
Bring the magnet close to the edge of the bill.
Watch the bill spring toward the magnet.
The reason for the attraction is that the ink on the bill has some iron particles in it.

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I promise, this is my last post until something substantial turns up.

But I just couldn't resist sharing this with everyone.

The link takes you to a Flicker site that shows dozens of photos of every Mission in the state of Texas. I've only scratched the surface at viewing them myself, but if the item in question is mission related, there should be some evidence of it here. If nothing else, it's a fun site to thumb through for those interested in Texas missions. I hope you enjoy it.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/texasmissions/


SDBB

The photo below is especially for Breezie and DCMatt.

 

[sonofmitch]

Maybe the 5/8 holes held candles or candle holders which in turn held candles.

Mitch

 

[sonofmitch]

Dodabob etc.

I took me an hour to find a magnet until it thought of refrigerator magnet. Besides brass is copper and zinc and bronze is copper and tin, right? Neither one would be magnetic. But I checked anyhow, no attraction.
The rivet in the photo that looked like a screw is in fact a rivet. No attraction to them either. Although they do seem to be a slightly different metallic composition. No so much green patina.
The picture of the San Antonio river I presume is near San Antonio. This was over 100 miles from San Antonio.
You know I'm beginning to like the chandelier idea pretty well as well. Still think from a mission though.
Also, you do know that this thing is hollow from the bottom. That is to say it's basic shape is like that of a hat. It's not a solid brass object. You can see that from my third picture. It could be optically confusing though. It weight 9 lbs.
Mitch

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

sonofmitch -

Thanks for the information. I realized from your photos that it was hollow. My primary curiosity (Which you answered for me with the 9 lb. factor) was whether it was cast-in-a-mold-type-heavy, or hammered-sheet-type-heavy. It's now apparent to me it is fitted sheets that were rivited together. And by "solid" bronze/brass, I only meant that it was entirely made of one of those substances as opposed being part iron, part tin, etc. And the fact that you've determined it to be non-magnetic and either bronze or brass, leads me to believe it was "possibly" intended for exterior purposes. In other words, a roof fixture, chimney cap, weather vane base, etc. etc.
Not that it couldn't still be a chandelier part, which is as good a suggestion as any of the hair-brained ideas I've come up with. And speaking of being hair brained, we forgot to acknowledge DCMatt who was actually the first to mention (with photo) that it might be a chandelier canopy.

In any event, I have to admit I'm stumped on what it is! It definitely has a Spanish look to it, and if you hold your mouth just right it even looks a little bit like a crown. But one thing is certain, whoever made it sure knew what it was for, and spent a great deal of time forming it. Too bad that guy isn't around now, because I can just hear him saying, "My amigo, don't you know nothin'? I make these all day long in my little shop over there. They are very popular with all the people, and I sell many of them. In Spanish they are called ... "

Thanks for allowing me to come on board, and I hope I didn't sink your ship.

My advice is to take it to a San Antonio area museum, meet with a curator, and keep your fingers crossed. If it is mission related, even if it's an antique trash can cover, it still has some value.

Thanks again to all, and I will continue to watch with interest and even post if I stumble onto something of interest.

SODABOB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

? MAYBE ?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

? MAYBE NOT ?


http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/90145/mission-san-jose-cross-zoom-out-pan-hd.html

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

? Of course, there's the "finial" on the bell tower to consider ?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Let's take another look at the original photos. Especially no.3
Notice on the edge where the narrow, one inch strip has been attached.
Although I have not acertained from sonofmitch the true nature of this feature, it "appears" to me that the item may have had a collar or plate attached to it at some point. This suggest to me a form of "flashing" often seen in roof applications where a collar or plate was used to secure the fixture to a roof, possibly with nails, and then shingled or tiled over afterwards.

I realize this is pure speculation on my part, but can we deny it appears that "something" used to be attached to the underside? But what baffles me most is; 1. The three inch diameter hole. (Large enough for a vent pipe, but too small for the average chimney flue). 2. The six 5/8" holes. (I keep shaking my head thinking they were not for bolts or screws - but for some other purpose - possibly ventalation or drainage).

In conclusion :

Although at this point I have no solid evidence (photo) to support my claim, my gut instinct tells me it is quite old, appears to be Spanish by design, and that it went on a roof, and was possibly one of three things ...

1. A vent or chimney "shroud," or "cap."
2. A "finial" of some sort, possibly a base to a cross, weather vane, lightning rod.
3. A "cupola," or part of a gable or steeple feature.

I will, when time allows, continue my search for "proof on the roof," and will post what, if anything, that I find.

Good luck to all - I hope someone Identifies it soon!

SODABOTTLEBOB

 

[sonofmitch]

Re: Attention Archeologists, Museum curators. Could be the holy grail. You tell

I did send a couple of pictures to the curator at the Alamo. Will see if I get a response
Mitch

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Thanks Mitch - and thank your dad too since your the son of ...

It's too bad that someone here on TreasureNet wasn't able to "positively" identify it, (at least not yet), as there are some pretty sharp ID'ers here. (Myself not included).

Hopefully you will hear back from the curator soon. I can't wait to hear what he has to say!

Thanks again for sharing a most baffling query.

"Remember The Alamo!"

Bob

 

[BuckleBoy]

I don't know where the hell all the comic book photos, Alamo photos, Texas state maps, Church photos, New Years Cards, and other UNRELATED CRAP came from...but it makes it VERY hard to ID anything in this section forum! To have to wade through pages of photos and ravings that have nothing to do with what was posted here to ID (magnets and dollar bills!!)--PLEASE!

I will start reporting unrelated posts for deletion by the moderators if you keep flooding the threads with your replies.



The item is the top from a chandelier as was said above--likely an early gas one. Google images of old gas powered lighting from the Victorian Era and you'll see comparable examples that are the same size as the item posted up top.


Regards,



Buck

 

[Wild Boulder Bill]

light fixture correct . each one of those holes held a metal rod and sandwhiched between the rod was apiece of glass. hard to tell from the photo weather it was gas, incandscent or gas converted to incandscent. when working on one of the converted ones there is nothing more fun than explainin to the boss that one of the pieces of glass fell out and broke.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Suggestion: Please post photos with claims of identification!

This thread has been ongoing for several days, and no complaints from sonofmitch that I know of. He even had to go to an outside source via an Alamo curator for help, and is still waiting to hear back on that. Whether right or wrong, I respect the owner's personal observations.

The reason for the additional unrelated postings was because the thread seemed to be getting stale with very little input, related or otherwise. Plus sonofmitch, who started this thread, seemed fairly certain it was/is Spanish related, and I was just feeding off of that. I'm sorry if anyone took it personal. And I guess I should apologize for wishing everyone a Happy New Year, but I won't! That still stands!

Respectfully,

SODABOB

P.S. If someone feels any complaints should be filed, they should consider the Freemason Lighthouse thread with 4463 views and 233 post!

 

[sonofmitch]

With all do respect ... (I Repeat), With all do respect, I just spent the last hour Googling and Binging every word combination of "Victorian - Gas - Era - Chandelier - Lighting" that I could possibly think of, and was unable to find a single thing that looked like the item I found. I would appreciate it if someone is already aware of on that they would be so kind as to post it or it's location

Thank you.

sonofmitch

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

sonofmitch -

I second your request for assistance on finding images of Victorian gas chandeliers on Google. I just spent the last two hours hoping to find something to help you out, but came up with zilch!

I'm not saying it's not chandelier related, I'm just saying I can't find an image similar enough to your's to claim it as positively ID yet. Like you suggested, maybe someone else can fill in the blanks here and help us out.

Thanks,

SDBB

 

[BuckleBoy]

Suggestion: Please post photos with claims of identification!

This thread has been ongoing for several days, and no complaints from sonofmitch that I know of. He even had to go to an outside source via an Alamo curator for help, and is still waiting to hear back on that. Whether right or wrong, I respect the owner's personal observations.

The reason for the additional unrelated postings was because the thread seemed to be getting stale with very little input, related or otherwise. Plus sonofmitch, who started this thread, seemed fairly certain it was/is Spanish related, and I was just feeding off of that. I'm sorry if anyone took it personal. And I guess I should apologize for wishing everyone a Happy New Year, but I won't! That still stands!

Respectfully,

SODABOB

P.S. If someone feels any complaints should be filed, they should consider the Freemason Lighthouse thread with 4463 views and 233 post!

If sonofmitch wants an Exact match, this thread will not be over for some time. I feel pretty certain that the piece is a chandelier piece. And yes, there are Comparable examples to be found online. I have been looking through google patents for a few hours and have found some comparable pieces, of comparable size, and of comparable age to the piece in question. Note the piece which fit snug against the ceiling in the first diagram, as well as the tops of the "cannisters" in the second diagram:







Now as for you, Bob--Don't depend on a new member with less than a dozen posts to complain when they've had enough of your off-the-wall replies. This is certainly not the only thread here in the "What is it?" section where you have posted on and on about several different topics besides the topic of the original thread.

When you do this, it makes it difficult for any of us to figure out what information has something to do with the topic.

The purpose of this section of the forum is to Identify Items for members. It is not the place to wish everyone a happy new year on someone else's thread. It is not the place to spew out everything you happened to learn while google searching for something someone else posted. And it is not the place for wild conjectures that have nothing to do with the topics at hand.

If you'd like to specialize in Wild Conjecture, might I suggest the LRL or dowsing threads? And perhaps "Everything Else" for everything else?

Here in this section of the forum, we have work to do. And some of us take a lot of pride in helping others--myself included.

In the future I will ignore your replies. If you do happen to ID a find, I will neither see nor read your ID of the item. I have better things to do than wade through unimportant information online. I do not think that I am not the only person who is perturbed with your lengthy, off-topic replies. But if I am the first person to speak up, then so be it.

And in terms of "proof" of an ID--I do a good bit of ID work around here, Bob. So far, I haven't seen much from you.


Now how about you send me a PM so we can get this conversation off this thread.




-BB

 

[sonofmitch]

God, you people really get hostile, don't you. Can't we just all get along. No wonder there's wars on this planet. This isn't about God or politics.

OK, here's the reason I don't think that it's a chandelier like the ones pictured at least. It's not machined, or cast. It has no screws or threaded holes. There is no sign of anything being bolted through the six holes like the footprint left where one piece of metal was pressed against another for a long period of time. There are no markings on it like would be left by an manufacturer. It is imperfect in symmetry. By that I don't mean overall but for example the six holes are not all the same. They are formed by the junction of two of the pieces. On some the holes they appear to be formed by half coming from one piece and half coming from the other piece. Others have a majority of the hole being on one piece and a small part coming from the other piece.
Plus where I found it is rural. No where near present day civilization. 1820's - 1850's civilization at the latest. Ok, yes I found a pull tab that day as well but that's all.
And by the way. I've been on treasurenet for a lot longer than is implied by my posts. Probably as long as there has been a treasurenet. Just been distracted for the last 10 years or so.

Mitch

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

BuckleBoy -

What conversation are you referring to? It sounds fairly one sided to me!

And as far as PM's are concerned - you had that option yourself, but it's obvious you wanted the whole world to know how you feel. Plus your last post with the chandelier drawings is as solid an ID of sonofmitch's item as is a bowl of pudding!

If anyone is offended by anything I've posted, and who honestly believes that my intent now or ever was other than to bring a positive, educational, fun aspect to any TreasureNet thread, please post it publicly here for all to read. I have been nothing but sincere in my participation, and take such insults personal. I don't care if you do have 10,000+ post and think you're the top dog, you don't own this site, and I have every right to be upset. In all honesty I believe you owe me a public apology!

And while the jury is out, perhaps you would like to explain the half dozen or so replies you posted to the Freemason Lighthouse thread, one of which (#175 to be exact) was the photo of a big bowl of pudding you posted. I didn't hear you complain about any of those post that included everything from "Whammy Cloths" to "Bloody Zombies!"

Come on man! Let's call an ace an ace, and not the pot calling the kettle black!

I apologize to all who would rather this went away, but I didn't start it!

Sincerely,

Bob

P.S. Happy New Year!

 

[Justice70]

Personally, I happen to have enjoyed re-learning about the dollar and magnet trick. Thanx Bob Keep it up