Attention Archeologists, Museum curators. Could be the holy grail. You tell me.

[sonofmitch]

I found this several years ago near Victoria Texas on the San Antonio river. It's made of brass or bronze and is about 11 inches across and is approximately 1/8 thick. It stands 5 inches high and has a center hole that is 3 inches in diameter. There are six other 5/8 inch holes with one in each corner of its hexagonal shape. These holes are made such that if something were inserted into them that object would stand vertically and not at any other angle than 90 degrees. It appears to be Spanish or French just 'cause I want it to be.
The way it was made was by making 6 identical pieces that were bent to the same shape to make each of the six sides and joined with rivets through the decorative strips that cover each seam. I would say that it's off of a ship, from a mission, or off of a carriage. Surely not a hubcap. Maybe a decorative base for a flagpole Then why the little holes. Six flags over Texas?? Looks hammered into shape. Each of the six pieces at one time had other pieces riveted to them which would have stuck our from the edges that you see now.

Any ideas?? Anyone

 

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[Justice70]

It seems most people are leaning toward the street lamp. Not a bad guess in my estimation considering it was found on the San Antonio river which has the world famous river walk. Architect Robert Hugman who designed the river walk did use old fashioned lamps to light the walk.

Found this pic of one of the lamps on the river walk.Not a match. I do not know if the lamps are original however.

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

sonofmitch -

First of all ... Welcome to TreasureNet. I just realized this is your very first post.

You said it was found near Victoria, Texas. I just did a virtual tour of the town and it looks pretty darn historic to me! I realize that Victoria is about 100 miles Southeast of San Antonio, but still on the river.

Question: Do you live in the area of Victoria, or know someone who does?

It seems that an item made of brass or bronze, (both of which are extremely heavy), might suggest the item was at some point in time a permanant fixture of the town itself. I.E., Lamp post base, weather vane, roof cap, etc.

If you do live near there or know someone who does, maybe a walk around the downtown area might reveal something.

Thanks again,

SODABOB

 

[thrillathahunt]

Well, if it is the holy grail, somebody put holes in it.

 

[Broken knee]

sonofmitch when i said roof cap . I should have said to a church, the framing for the steeple would be larger ie. the larger holes. BK

First of all ... Welcome to TreasureNet. I just realized this is your very first post.

You said it was found near Victoria, Texas. I just did a virtual tour of the town and it looks pretty darn historic to me! I realize that Victoria is about 100 miles Southeast of San Antonio, but still on the river.

Question: Do you live in the area of Victoria, or know someone who does?

It seems that an item made of bronze or copper, (both of which are extremely heavy), might suggest the item was at some point in time a permanant fixture of the town itself. I.E. Lamp post base, etc.

If you do live near there or know someone who does, maybe a walk around the downtown area might reveal something.

Thanks again,

SODABOB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Please notice in my previous photo (Which clearly shows 1949ish cars, but was not dated) that the street lamps are present, whereas in this next photo, (Which was dated 1939) all except one of the lamps are not present. Thus, the other two lamps were installed sometime between 1939 and 1949!

I wish I had a close-up of the lamps! (Not to mention all that stuff on the roof!)

Anyway, just some more potpouri to throw into the mix.

SDBB

 

[Breezie]

Re: Attention Archeologists, Museum curators. Could be the holy grail. You tell

It looks like a Victorian chandelier ceiling canopy. They were made to hold 1, 3, 4, or 5 chains or crystals; in this case, yours had 5 chains. Breezie

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I like Breezie's fresh perspective of a chandelier canopy.

And here's some food for thought for us lamp post theorist ...

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the 3" wide hole is no bigger than the diameter of your average coffee cup. Which would make for one spindly looking lamp post! And of the dozens upon dozens of lamp post I've been looking at today, I don't think a single one was less than six or eight inches in diameter. Of course, there are many varieties of post, such as a flag post just to mention one. But as for myself, I'm leaning away from it being a lamp post base, and in the meantime plan on getting ready for the "party" tonight, which may very well wind up with me literally hanging onto one of those lamp post I've been babbling about!

Have fun - don't drink and walk - and don't wait up for me!

SODABOTTLEBOB

 

[vhs07]

Victoria county certinally has a lot of french and Spanish history associated with it, but I dont think there's much chanch of it being french. The spanish had a mission and a fort on the SanAntonio river in next door Goliad county. Back in the 30's someone found a brass cannon that had been sawed in half and a large copper pot on the riverbank towards victoria. These items are on display at the LaBahia museum.
Now even though the mounting holes are 5/8", I dont think the item could hold much weight upright on a shaft. The pieces are held together by rivets, so it's not built for strength.
How far were you from the mission?
What about a floor holder for a flag, or if a church, one of those crosses on a wooden pole the priest carry up the aisle?
Now the 3" hole might be awfully large for a pole, but there might of been wooden "bushings" inserted inside to allow for different size poles.
Just a guess.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

vhs07 -

Welcome to TreasureNet. There seems to be a lot of new members with the New Year.

Personally, I really like your suggestion about it being a base or stand of some kind. And the more I look at the photos and think about it, the more I'm beginning to think the 5/8" holes are not for mounting to a surface at all, but rather that the item is heavy enough to be free standing, and the six holes were for supporting something like small flags around a larger flag in the center like you mentioned. It definitely looks Spanish, and may very well be church or even politically related. The owner of this thread himself said something about "The Six Flags of Texas!"

It's only 6:00 PM here in California, and still about an hour or so before this evening's guest arrive. (Mostly family).

Have fun.

SDBB

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: Attention Archeologists, Museum curators. Could be the holy grail. You tell

Looks to be off a carriage lamp. I have a whole one that was later converted to gas. I will try to shoot a picture of it. Looks like the top part.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

sonofmitch -

I see you are currently online.

Question: How much would you say the item weighs?

Your measuring tape shows it to be about a foot square. I suspect it's quite heavy!

Thanks.

SDBB

 

[sonofmitch]

Ok, here goes. First of all I would like to thank you all for responding. I think that we (collectively) are on the right path. A path we wouldn't be on if it weren't for the participation of everyone here.
Also, I didn't mean to imply that I found it actually in Victoria or San Antonio. I was on the San Antonio river but not near San Antonio. 100 miles from San Antonio and 20 or so from Victoria. Lots of mission activity within 50 radius.
Anyhow, I think 72cheyenne finally focused on it's probabal origin. Then I think Sodabob posted a picture of it. That top of a church with the weather vane on it looks like it. The part immediately under the bird or dragon or whatever that thing on top is. It's like my piece turned upside down under the bird. If a shaft went trough the middle and sealed tightly it could collect water that would pour out the 5/8 holes. Not that there would ever be a reason for that to be necessary. Just thinking.
where did you get that picture BOb?
Mitch

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

sonofmitch -

I'll tell you where I found the photo if you tell me how much the item weighs!

Lol ... Just kidding!

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure. I only remember Googling the exact words "Weather Vane" , which was suggested by 72cheyenne, and then went from there. I do recall the photo was of a church, I believe in Spain. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right this moment, but will back-track when I get a chance. I've looked at so many websites today my brain is Googled! Or perhaps that's just the Champagne I've been drinking.

SODA"TINYBUBBLES"BOB

 

[sonofmitch]

SodaBob,
I found it. It's a cathedral in France. Looks similar but now exact of course. Probably the Spanish version. Will let you know weight soon as avaliable. Poor guesser.
Mitch

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

sonofmitch -

I thought I would add these maps to the mix to give some perspective on the Spanish mission idea that you suggested. Although I have to wonder if an old adobe type of church or mission would have such a large and ornate fixture sitting atop their structure. Of course, some of the more recent turn of the century and later churches certainly may have.

SDBB

P.S. If you are a map freak like me, this link to a zoom feature Texas map is a lot of fun.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/photodraw/missions/raw/mis074.html

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Although this mission, established in east Texas in the 1700s, may have been renovated over the years, I stand corrected that they were obviously more ornate than I previously thought.

This mission was originally established on the Angelina River in East Texas in 1716 as Mission Nuestra Señora de la Purísima Concepción de los Ainais.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I apologize for bombarding this thread with a ton of photos, but I for one suspect that sonofmitch may be onto something with his idea that the item may very well be Spanish mission related. Which, for me, adds a whole new perspective to the item if it can in fact be identified as such. And let's not forget that those old missions also had some pretty ornate interior fixtures, including massive Spanish chandliers as suggested earlier by Breezie.

"Hey, sonofmitch! Does this river look familiar?

Only one small section of the San Antonio River has survived in its natural state. It is behind Mission San Juan and can be visited via an accessible trail that meanders from the Mission through the forest and down to the River. This section survived because instead of straightening and widening the natural channel, a flood control ditch was dug just to the west.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

My next photo, if one exist, will be a close-up match of the item in question, or nothing at all!

SDBB

~ * ~

Mission San Juan Capistrano (originally christened in 1716 as La Misión San José de los Nazonis and located in East Texas) was founded in 1731 by Spanish Catholics of the Franciscan Order, on the eastern banks of the San Antonio River in present-day Bexar County, Texas.

 

[dg39]

75% sure it is a celing light fixture ..early oil or gas. My guess...
DG

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

sonofmitch -

I realize you are probably not an expert on hand forged items, nor am I, but if you could give us a little more information on the construction, it may be of considerable help toward dating and identifying the item. For example, in the second initial photo that you posted, right at the very bottom, I see what appears to be a slotted screw head. Is this correct or just an illusion?

If it is a screw, and doesn't appear to be added at a later date, I'd say it would definitely push the date much closer to the mid 19th century or later. But if it is not a screw, please tell us as best you can about the rivites and other construction features. And have you magnet tested it, or done anything else to try and determine exactly what form of metal it is? I guess this is where the weight factor comes into focus again. If that thing is solid bronze or brass, it must weigh a ton. Which, for me, would shed a whole new light on the subject!

And in your photo no.3, on the left and top of the item, are those thin strips on the underside "folded over," or "applied separately?"

Thanks.

SDBB