AZ Unknown Mines

[sgtfda]

$1300 gold market is the break even point for most gold mines. Need I say more. Unless you are on the Discovery Chanel and living on show money.

 

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[chlsbrns]

$1300 gold market is the break even point for most gold mines. Need I say more. Unless you are on the Discovery Chanel and living on show money.

I was hoping that posters would deal in facts not just make statements that are easily verified as incorrect.

Gold mining companies will mine 1ppm gold. (one part per million/one oz/ton) They do not stop mining at $1300/oz. They may require 2ppm instead of 1ppm if the price drops below a certain mark. If the price dropped to $700/oz they would require more ppm they wouldn't stop mining.

I'm starting to think there is some truth to the LDM curse and that all it takes is to believe any of the numerous fairy tales to loose it!

 

[chlsbrns]

As I recall, those USGS records were public records. You can believe they've all been looked at by experienced hands. Very few people who follow this TNet category are experienced miners. Some are though, and some of these seem to be the most skeptical.

Yes the USGS records are public records. They sample and explore all over looking for all minerals & pollution. They test each sample to analyze each sample. Their figures are correct. When they find a vein and other types of gold deposits they record it. They do not just sample mines they sample stream sediments as well as soils.

I agree! Very few here have mining experience.

Who is more experienced than the USGS? They test for a whole lot more than gold.

Aluminum, Antimony, Arsenic, Atomic absorption analysis, Atomic emission spectroscopy, Barium, Beryllium, Bismuth, Boron, Bromine, Cadmium, Calcium, Carbon, Cerium, Cesium, Chlorine, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Dysprosium, Erbium, Europium, Fluorine, Gadolinium, Gallium, Geochemistry, Geospatial datasets, Germanium, Gold, Hafnium, Holmium, Igneous rocks, Indium, Iodine, Iron, Irridium, Lanthanum, Lead, Lithium, Lutetium, Magnesium, Manganese, Mass spectroscopy, Mercury, Metamorphic rocks, Molybdenum, Neodymium, Neutron activation analysis, Nickel, Niobium, Osmium, Palladium, Phosphorus, Platinum, Potassium, Praseodymium, Radon, Rhenium, Rhodium, Rubidium, Ruthenium, Samarium, Scandium, Sedimentary rocks, Selenium, Silicon, Silver, Sodium, Strontium, Sulfur, Tantalum, Tellurium, Terbium, Thallium, Thorium, Thulium, Tin, Titanium, Tungsten, Uranium, Vanadium, X-ray diffraction, Ytterbium, Yttrium, Zinc, Zirconium

 

[Springfield]

... Gold mining companies will mine 1ppm gold. (one part per million/one oz/ton) They do not stop mining at $1300/oz. They may require 2ppm instead of 1ppm if the price drops below a certain mark. If the price dropped to $700/oz they would require more ppm they wouldn't stop mining. ...

Mining companies take years or decades sampling and defining ore bodies. Soil and stream samples are only that - snapshots of what's on the ground surface, not below. Minable ore bodies usually lie underneath the ground, beneath uneconomical tonnage that has to be removed before the paying ore is exposed. The companies develop mining plans that look years into the future. If the price of gold drops, they don't 'move to better ore'. If better ore was available, they'd mine it first. Sarge was about right - most mines spend $1000 or more per ounce to recover gold from open pit/leach gold mines, which most are nowadays. If gold dropped to $700, guess what? The company would not move to better ore because better ore isn't sitting there waiting for them. Like I said above, if it were, that's what they'd be mining to begin with. At $700, they'd be losing money, and yes, if the numbers were bad enough, they'd quit mining and wait for the price to come back.

 

[sgtfda]

Not talking about huge company's but a small operation. I have friends in the business and they are hurting. I buy gold from these guys for my club and the supply is drying up. Everyone is shutting down.

 

[chlsbrns]

Mining companies take years or decades sampling and defining ore bodies. Soil and stream samples are only that - snapshots of what's on the ground surface, not below. Minable ore bodies usually lie underneath the ground, beneath uneconomical tonnage that has to be removed before the paying ore is exposed. The companies develop mining plans that look years into the future. If the price of gold drops, they don't 'move to better ore'. If better ore was available, they'd mine it first. Sarge was about right - most mines spend $1000 or more per ounce to recover gold from open pit/leach gold mines, which most are nowadays. If gold dropped to $700, guess what? The company would not move to better ore because better ore isn't sitting there waiting for them. Like I said above, if it were, that's what they'd be mining to begin with. At $700, they'd be losing money, and yes, if the numbers were bad enough, they'd quit mining and wait for the price to come back.

Show me something in writing to back up your statements. You can't because you are incorrect.

What about copper? According to your thoughts they would not have mined copper for decades if ever.

The USGS does not just sample what's on top. That have found billions of dollars worth of gold deposits. Large & small un-mined deposits!

Who cares what it costs the big mining companies anyway? I'm talking about the little guys like us.

 

[chlsbrns]

Not talking about huge company's but a small operation. I have friends in the business and they are hurting. I buy gold from these guys for my club and the supply is drying up. Everyone is shutting down.

I've done it for years will do it again next spring/summer/fall and would do it at $700 per oz. My small setup can do 2-3 tons/hour. Last year the ground I was on was 63ppm, over 2 ounces per ton. At $700 an ounce = $1400 to $2100 per hour.

If their supply is drying up move to another location where there is gold.

 

[txtea]

Mining companies take years or decades sampling and defining ore bodies. Soil and stream samples are only that - snapshots of what's on the ground surface, not below. Minable ore bodies usually lie underneath the ground, beneath uneconomical tonnage that has to be removed before the paying ore is exposed. The companies develop mining plans that look years into the future. If the price of gold drops, they don't 'move to better ore'. If better ore was available, they'd mine it first. Sarge was about right - most mines spend $1000 or more per ounce to recover gold from open pit/leach gold mines, which most are nowadays. If gold dropped to $700, guess what? The company would not move to better ore because better ore isn't sitting there waiting for them. Like I said above, if it were, that's what they'd be mining to begin with. At $700, they'd be losing money, and yes, if the numbers were bad enough, they'd quit mining and wait for the price to come back.

Springfield is correct.
One example of a profitable mine shutting down until gold/ silver prices come back up is the Presidio mine in the Shafter Mining District in west Texas. Between 1884 and 1942, the Presidio mine produced 32.6 million ounces of silver and 8400 ounces of gold. The mine closed because of falling silver prices in 1942, but in Dec. of 2012, it was reopened due to silver prices soaring over the last few years.
It does happen.

 

[chlsbrns]

Who cares about big mining companies?

Large mining companies can do over 1,000 tons per hour. There is a huge difference between 1ppm and 2ppm and 10ppm. If they are in a spot with 10ppm there isn't a chance they would shut down. If they are on ground that is less than 1ppm and can not process thousands of tons daily they may shut down. It's the amount of gold per ton, the size of the deposit, the amount they are capable of processing and ppm gold that matters a whole lot more than the price of gold matters.

You can't put a blanket expense of $1,000 per oz on mining companies. If there were two mines with the exact same equipment and one had 1ppm gold and the other had 5ppm gold the one with 1ppm would have to rum 5x the amount of material to get the amount of gold that the second company got running the same amount of material.

Another thing to consider is that the mining companies do not necessarily sell right away. Many hold on to their gold and sell at a later date when gold rises. Many are traded on the stock exchange with people buying shares when the prices drop due to gold prices falling. They have capital no matter how you look at it.

 

[chlsbrns]

But as prices fall, others are actually increasing output to maintain revenue and profit levels. In some cases, they are targeting higher grade ore to keep marginal mines operating and generating cash, at the expense of future production. Gold mine output set to reach record, disappoint bulls | Reuters

Gold Miner ETFs Rake In Assets As Prices Plunge

Cramer: Golden opportunity in gold miner?

Hummingbird Seeks $200 Million to Build Liberia Gold Mine - Bloomberg

Gold Mining Executives: “You Have To Be Able To Survive The Lows In Order To Reap The Benefit Of The Highs”

 

[sgtfda]

It depends on your fuel and equipment costs and location. I don't have time for this. I need to keep Mary's sons from dying in the mountains. It's my fault if something happens.

 

[chlsbrns]

Is there such a thing as the Lost Dutchman's Mine syndrome? Or is there really a curse that affects the mind? Or something else?

It costs the same to run a ton of material no matter if it contains 1ppm gold or 5ppm or 100ppm. It's the ppm and the amount that you can run that matters a whole lot more than the spot price of gold.

 

[Springfield]

chlsbrns, good luck with whatever it is you're doing. I don't really have time to respond to your posts anymore.

 

[txtea]

Is there such a thing as the Lost Dutchman's Mine syndrome? Or is there really a curse that affects the mind? Or something else?

It costs the same to run a ton of material no matter if it contains 1ppm gold or 5ppm or 100ppm. It's the ppm and the amount that you can run that matters a whole lot more than the spot price of gold.

Obviously.

 

[Cubfan64]

chlsbrns, good luck with whatever it is you're doing. I don't really have time to respond to your posts anymore.

I couldn't figure out what it was he's doing here either which is why I had to put him on ignore - didn't have time to try to follow the logic and purpose behind the posts. The constant attitude is no help either. "Ignore" is rarely used by me, but it's there for a reason

This whole thread belongs under the Hard Rock Mining, Arizona or maybe Prospecting sections anyway.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Chribrn; Ihate to say this,but you are soooo wrong.

Incidentally just how many of these move on to a better property are there? If they are available why not go there first?

And on---?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[chlsbrns]

The thread was taken off topic by some sort of syndrome. It was taken off topic when I suggested that people should search for real gold deposits instead of chasing after lost gold mines.

Many of the Unknown Mines are claimable and contain gold. Many are unknown because there is no claim associated with them therefore they have no name. (unknown)

It seems no one wants to deal in facts or logic.

 

[chlsbrns]

Chribrn; Ihate to say this,but you are soooo wrong.

Incidentally just how many of these move on to a better property are there? If they are available why not go there first?

And on---?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Your opinion is noted now can you back it up with facts?

I posted news from a gold mine that is doing as I said can be done. That's not good enough?

"But as prices fall, others are actually increasing output to maintain revenue and profit levels. In some cases, they are targeting higher grade ore to keep marginal mines operating and generating cash, at the expense of future production. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/20/gold-mine-output-idUSL5N0J44T720131120 "

Again, I was speaking of every day people not large mining companies. It was misdirected to large mining companies. I know that I can still profit at $700 an ounce. Many others can profit at $700/oz. At $700/oz is it worth looking for the LDM? NO! At $100,000/oz it's not worth looking if it is in a Federal Wilderness area where you can't mine.

 

[chlsbrns]

Why does everyone disappear when I ask for facts that can be verified?

 

[Oroblanco]

I couldn't figure out what it was he's doing here either which is why I had to put him on ignore - didn't have time to try to follow the logic and purpose behind the posts. The constant attitude is no help either. "Ignore" is rarely used by me, but it's there for a reason

This whole thread belongs under the Hard Rock Mining, Arizona or maybe Prospecting sections anyway.

Agreed. This forum is literally,
[h=1]Forum: Treasure Legends[/h] Legends of lost treasure, mines, shipwrecks, and other caches are usually based on historical fact. Use this forum to discuss various treasure legends.

That is the description of the forum - and just for the record, I seriously doubt that any of us believes every word of any of the various stories of the LDM or any other lost mine. The story may well be based on facts, yet in the re-telling, errors and falsehoods have gotten mixed in. This is part of why we discuss the in the first place to try to sort things out. Anyone that wants to "stick to provable facts" ought to stick to the known gold districts and known gold deposits, or look into criminal case law. Of course even in those fields, there are unsolved mysteries and "facts" open to interpretation.

I would also point out, that while many of our strongest skeptics are also very experienced, it is also true that some of our strongest skeptics have NEVER once gone looking for the Lost Dutchman. Kind of changes the color of the skepticism. A simile is how do you explain what it is like to catch a big fish, to a person that has never gone fishing? It is healthy to keep a skeptical view, but wise to keep the door open to new information. I think most of our skeptics here are of that view.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco