Blowing The Cast Iron Lids Off Of Beale

[Rebel - KGC]

There is NO "J" in Thomas Beale, Sr's name of Botetourt County, Va.; NOR Thomas Beale, Jr...

Don't know about the "one that moved WEST"... MORE, please.

 

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[bigscoop]

Born 1823 in Richmond, Thomas J Beale who became Jackson Ward Alderman married Sophia Pemberton, October 1, 1851.
They had five children, John T (1852), Charles (1855), Edward(1857), Anne E (1858), and Sarah(1859).
While Thomas J Beale's parents are unknown, it is obvious that Dr John Charles Beales of England, later New York, married Dolores de Soto 1830 in Mexico and raised her daughter from a previous marriage.
Much of the Dr John Charles Beales information is in the links I provided above.
There is NO connection between the Alderman and the Dr and NO connection to Ward's copyrighted 1885 Beale Papers...

So what do you know about John T., the one from Texas? For instance, where was he born, etc.? The more we learn about him the more we learn about the alderman. Yes? Where were his other children born, etc.?

 

[ECS]

There is NO "J" in Thomas Beale, Sr's name of Botetourt County, Va.; NOR Thomas Beale, Jr...

Thomas J Beale , born 1826 in Botetourt county, Virginia is not Beale Sr or Jr, nor Jackson Ward Alderman Thomas J Beale, and it appears he was not directly related to either.

 

[ECS]

Born 1823 in Richmond, Thomas J Beale who became Jackson Ward Alderman married Sophia Pemberton, October 1, 1851.
They had five children, John T (1852), Charles (1855), Edward(1857), Anne E (1858), and Sarah(1859).
While Thomas J Beale's parents are unknown, it is obvious that Dr John Charles Beales of England, later New York, married Dolores de Soto 1830 in Mexico and raised her daughter from a previous marriage.
Much of the Dr John Charles Beales information is in the links I provided above.
There is NO connection between the Alderman and the Dr and NO connection to Ward's copyrighted 1885 Beale Papers...

So what do you know about John T., the one from Texas? For instance, where was he born, etc.? The more we learn about him the more we learn about the alderman. Yes? Where were his other children born, etc.?

Why don't you tell us what you know, or suspect, it is ,after all a part of this current theory of yours.

 

[bigscoop]

Why don't you tell us what you know, or suspect, it is ,after all a part of this current theory of yours.

If you'll go back to the beginnings of this thread you'll see where that is exactly what I was intending to do, and doing so, but you weren't going to have any part of it. Good lord, man, I've lost count of the number of wasted post you've exhausted on this thread alone just trying to prevent me from posting what you now say you want to hear? In fact, you've tried everything in your power to prevent this thread from progressing forward....... .....thank heavens there's still emails and PMs for those who really do want to know, hear it.

 

[ECS]

If you say so.

 

[bigscoop]

If you say so.

Not me who says so, it's you. Good lord, just count you're post in this thread and then see how many of them actually pertained to the subjects being discussed. In fact, just go review the last hundred or so threads in this forum and do the same thing...... You're just all about the pursuit of argument, even baseless ones, anywhere, anytime.

And if you're satisfied with all of your Beale research then so be it. Probably nothing more of any true interest to you out there anyway.

 

[bigscoop]

ECS, you need to read your absolutely ridiculous summation in bold below, as it is absolutely ridiculous in every way.....

Born 1823 in Richmond, Thomas J Beale who became Jackson Ward Alderman married Sophia Pemberton, October 1, 1851.
They had five children, John T (1852), Charles (1855), Edward(1857), Anne E (1858), and Sarah(1859).
While Thomas J Beale's parents are unknown, it is obvious that Dr John Charles Beales of England, later New York, married Dolores de Soto 1830 in Mexico and raised her daughter from a previous marriage.
Much of the Dr John Charles Beales information is in the links I provided above.
There is NO connection between the Alderman and the Dr and NO connection to Ward's copyrighted 1885 Beale Papers...

Do you see it, I even underlined it for you so you can realize your obvious blunder in the following; "There is NO connection between the Alderman and the Dr and NO connection to Ward's copyrighted 1885 Beale Papers..."

Now just about everyone who has read this statement/summation of your's wants to know how you can conclude that there is no connection between the Texas Beale/Beale's and the alderman Beale if you don't even know who alderman Beale's parents were? Crystal ball, again? Local lore and romance? Was alderman Beale from some alien species that controls both reproduction organs and thus he is his own mother and father, perhaps? Just another completely baseless attempt at pursuing pointless argument at all cost, even your own.

 

[ECS]

Once again, tell us who were Alderman Beale's parents, it is already been established that they were NOT the Englishman Dr John Charles Beales and his Mexican wife, Dolores de Soto Beales whom he married in 1830 and neither were ever in Virginia or Richmond where the Alderman was born in 1823 (he is not the Thomas J Beale who was born 1826 in Botetourt county), and finally, HOW is any and all of this current historical grab bag theory of your connected to Ward and to the story that he copyrighted and publish in 1885 Lynchburg.
You are very good at deflecting this question by blaming me as an obstructionist, but as many have observed, it is just one of many ploys employed at avoiding posting the answer that you do not possess.

 

[bigscoop]

Once again, tell us who were Alderman Beale's parents, it is already been established that they were NOT the Englishman Dr John Charles Beales and his Mexican wife, Dolores de Soto Beales whom he married in 1830 and neither were ever in Virginia or Richmond where the Alderman was born in 1823 (he is not the Thomas J Beale who was born 1826 in Botetourt county), and finally, HOW is any and all of this current historical grab bag theory of your connected to Ward and to the story that he copyrighted and publish in 1885 Lynchburg.
You are very good at deflecting this question by blaming me as an obstructionist, but as many have observed, it is just one of many ploys employed at avoiding posting the answer that you do not possess.

Once again,.......who said that Charles Beale/Beale's and his wife were the alderman's parents? I've certainly never suggested that. All I've suggested is that the two families were possibly related. Not sure where you're getting your info but it ain't from me.

 

[franklin]

Once again,.......who said that Charles Beale/Beale's and his wife were the alderman's parents? I've certainly never suggested that. All I've suggested is that the two families were possibly related. Not sure where you're getting your info but it ain't from me.

I don't know but this marathon ping pong is getting to bore. Someone post a dagger in this murder case or find some new evidence?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

AGREE!

 

[ECS]

... Thomas J. Beale of Richmond is a direct descendant of the Thomas Beale that took part in the Mexican rebel struggle for Independence. Thomas J. Beale of Richmond, while a freeman of color was not black, but rather he had Mexican blood, his mother most likely being Dolores de Soto Beales, wife of John Charles Beale...

In 1886 John T. Beale and his wife traveled from Texas to visit John's father, Thomas J. Beale of Richmond. This was the critical link that everyone was missing...

First you state that Dolores de Soto was "most likely" the mother of Jackson Ward Alderman Thomas J Beale, who was born 1823 in Richmond, now you deny that statement.
Are you having trouble keeping your versions straight?
As Franklin noticed, there is a whole lot of ping pong in your historical grab bag version of the 1885 Beale Papers.

 

[bigscoop]

First you state that Dolores de Soto was "most likely" the mother of Jackson Ward Alderman Thomas J Beale, who was born 1823 in Richmond, now you deny that statement.
Are you having trouble keeping your versions straight?
As Franklin noticed, there is a whole lot of ping pong in your historical grab bag version of the 1885 Beale Papers.

...."most likely" isn't the same as "is".........what I have suggested is that there is a connection between the Texas Beale and the alderman Beale, this having been established by the tracing of the alderman's children, etc.

But I'm so glad you and Franklin and others are in support of each other as you are.....this explaining why you can post, with 100% certainty, that there is no possible connection between these two families when you don't even know who the alderman's parents were, and then Franklin and others so on board with your battle that it completely blows over their heads that there is no possible way you could draw that conclusion without knowing who the alderman's parents were. I figured they'd at least catch that obvious blunder but apparently not.

 

[franklin]

...."most likely" isn't the same as "is".........what I have suggested is that there is a connection between the Texas Beale and the alderman Beale, this having been established by the tracing of the alderman's children, etc.

But I'm so glad you and Franklin and others are in support of each other as you are.....this explaining why you can post, with 100% certainty, that there is no possible connection between these two families when you don't even know who the alderman's parents were, and then Franklin and others so on board with your battle that it completely blows over their heads that there is no possible way you could draw that conclusion without knowing who the alderman's parents were. I figured they'd at least catch that obvious blunder but apparently not.

There is no blunder by Rebel KGC, ECS or myself. You started this thread that you were going to blow the cast iron lids off of Beale. Then you come up with a connection that you can not establish and you want us to establish it or believe that there is a connection. Sorry but you need to keep on blowing.

 

[bigscoop]

There is no blunder by Rebel KGC, ECS or myself. You started this thread that you were going to blow the cast iron lids off of Beale. Then you come up with a connection that you can not establish and you want us to establish it or believe that there is a connection. Sorry but you need to keep on blowing.

So you can determine the alderman's bloodline without knowing who his parents were? And again, the connection has already been made if only you look for it.
What you need to do is to go back through some of these threads and review some of the statements that you've blindly supported, then you need to research some of those statements for yourself.

By the way, I'm still curious as to how you searched the Spanish Archives without ever going there and without ever paying anyone to conduct those searches for you? I'm also curious how you managed to do all of this without being able to translate the numerous languages encountered there? Can you elaborate on this for us?

And while we're touching on curiosities, I'm curious as to how ECS can deduce that Ward and others wrote the pamphlet using various materials from grandpa Risque's fabulous library when he can't even place those people and those materials in that alleged fabulous library? I'm also curious as to how, and why, you all have managed to convince yourselves that "it's all a local thing" when St. Louis ain't in Virginia and Richmond isn't in Lynchburg, the author himself even informing you that some in Beale's alleged party were from the Richmond area and that the alleged key was being held in St. Louis. And I can go on and on and on............obviously all a local thing, for sure.

 

[franklin]

Same ole message. I believe you have posted about 10,000 times. As for the Spanish Archives---------The last time you asked I told you they are on line. Find them? I had to get them through Inter-Library Loan. They are translated into English just like everything else these days.

As far as a local thing it is local because the "Job Print Pamphlet" was wrote in Lynchburg, published in Lynchburg and sold in Lynchburg. The agent for the author lived in Lynchburg. Now the story in the "Job Print Pamphlet" hints at St. Louis and Sante Fe connections. We all have searched these locations over 25 years ago and found no connections. So the story was made up to make money at fifty cents a copy. Local merchants and dignitaries complained about their names being in it the book was ceased from sale and most copies burned but a few escaped through family owned copies and thus the search today. The search was started by family kin such as the Hart Brothers which married into the family of Senator Isaac Otey. Another of his daughters married Paschal Buford the owner of the tavern where TJB said he stayed but they had already passed away before the publication or fiction story. Still there were family that complained such as Roland Buford son of Paschal Buford and Clerk of Bedford County. If anyone knew that TJB stayed at his father's tavern he surely would have known and would have told the world that. But since he was silent he wanted the story silenced and the pamphlets were discontinued.

If you search the storyline from Lynchburg to Bedford and then to St. Louis and all points west to Sante Fe, NM you will find no story to authenticate the "Job Print Pamphlet" NONE WHATSOEVER so how can the story be true.

The deciding factor that makes the Beale Treasure a Mystery to me is the "Job Print Pamphlet" itself.

The decoded message is wrong as stated in the "Job Print Pamphlet"
He accidentally found the DOI as a "KEY" to C2 yet he numbers the words wrong but still gets the decipherment right.
If he trusted Robert Morris as honest why did he not place the names of his associates in the box?
Why did he place such a long story in the box about gold being found?
Why did he mail or send the late letter from St. Louis telling of the importance of the ironbox?
Why did he use the DOI to place alphabet strings in C1?

All of these reasons and more make the story fiction. You can not decipher what is a pile of made up ciphers. And you can not find a treasure when the story is made up. I am ashamed I worked on the codes and the story for so long without seeing the above reasons that I should have seen in the beginning. For me the Beale Treasure is non-existent and I will not pursue it any longer. You and others can keep searching from India to New Orleans to Galveston Island and into the far southwest and all other histories of Sam Houston, the Revolution, the Battle of New Orleans and the Mexican War, Civil War and all the rest. I am leaving it alone as the author suggested. And I will post on this subject no longer. Good Day.

 

[ECS]

... I'm curious as to how ECS can deduce that Ward and others wrote the pamphlet using various materials from grandpa Risque's fabulous library when he can't even place those people and those materials in that alleged fabulous library? ...

I'm curious why you keep making that ridiculous statement about "Grandpa Risque's fabulous library" while ignoring all the other family connections to the Beale story that I have posted?
Is it because that you can not disprove these connections and the only rebuttal you can employ is misrepresentation and dismissing actual connections to the fictional Beale dime novel story that can not be denied?
So far, you have taken this historical hayride way down the lost highway that the wind has blown the last straw of credibility off onto the wayside.

 

[bigscoop]

I'm curious why you keep making that ridiculous statement about "Grandpa Risque's fabulous library" while ignoring all the other family connections to the Beale story that I have posted?

ECS........what in all of your fantastical magical family connections theory can you actually directly connect to the pamphlet? Ward, perhaps, who is only described as being just the agent? Where does all of this other family connection come into play in the pamphlet, exactly? Might it just all be "creative speculation and conjecture?" Yes, that's all it is, period! So please, and here we go yet again, another paddle-around within the same pond, something you've just not grasped yet, "can you show us all of your directly connecting evidence?" As far as I know you still don't have any..... "Quack! Quack!" Trust me, I'm not ignoring anything you post as being fact.....just I didn't ignore your previous "factual summation" regarding the alderman's parents, or lack of.

 

[bigscoop]

Same ole message. I believe you have posted about 10,000 times. As for the Spanish Archives---------The last time you asked I told you they are on line. Find them? I had to get them through Inter-Library Loan. They are translated into English just like everything else these days.

Really? I think you need to check again.....