California: Can I dredge on a Native American Res?

[NeoTokyo]

Ok, I am part Native American myself but it doesn't really show. lol

Hypothetically speaking, if I were invited to dredge a fishing hole to make it deeper and was allowed to keep what I found in return for returning the fishing hole to its once great glory, would it be legal?

I have been told from regular folks, mining folks and people on the reservation that they are their own country and that California dredging laws have no jurisdiction there.
As long as I have the counsels approval, I am legal.

Again, purely hypothetical.

This hypothetical spot is virgin, never dredged and has been in the same family since the beginning of the Res.

There is between 3'-10' of overburden in this area and the back half has a sand bar that is crazy is size, like a soccer field PLUS in size. Again, purely hypothetical.

Thanks for any replies.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[rodoconnor]

Interesting .They are a nation onto themselves and completely disregard F&G laws all the time.[ gill nets e.g.]

 

[russau]

stumps me! im not familiar with the laws that pertain to Indian reservations as applied to U.S. mining laws VRS. state laws.

 

[Peyton Manning]

from my massive store of knowledge ( mostly from tv) if the natives ok it you are golden

 

[enamel7]

Yes you can. Just like fishing. I can get a state license here in NC, but it's no good on the Cherokee reservation. Have to buy a permit from them.

 

[winners58]

If the tribe has Section 401 Certification authority if not you would get it from EPA
then just get a 404 Nation wide permit from USACE
http://www.spk.usace.army.mil/Missions/Regulatory/Permitting/NationwidePermits.aspx

 

[NeoTokyo]

If the tribe has Section 401 Certification authority if not you would get it from EPA
then just get a 404 Nation wide permit from USACE
http://www.spk.usace.army.mil/Missions/Regulatory/Permitting/NationwidePermits.aspx

I just googled the tribe, yup, they have a section 401 Cert.

I kinda figured since they use gill nets, can do anything they want, record ownership of fishing holes through the counsel and Fish and Game never dares to come through that I would be ok dredging.

While test sniping I had a drift boat fishing guide ask me if I was dredging, as if it were the norm.

 

[NeoTokyo]

btw, the folks that I know in this tribe that use gill nets, they keep all the fish, they don't pick and choose which ones to throw back to decay in the river.
They are good people and don't fit the mass waste image that others are guilty for.

 

[Hefty1]

Hypothetically speaking, Now they want are help?

 

[Hoser John]

I'd tune my radio to a F'M' station and blast it loud and clear. John PS-just saw your pm-what size engine on that unit ? as that depth will put a strain on smaller engines and a t-80 is ABSOLUTE minimal at that depth mentioned without modification. You'll need a gast and a 8 hp engine with a keene/proline/dahlke/precision pump. Res is a nation upon itself and council approval is mandatory and kalif can go pound sand. I would starve to death first as feeding the enemy is not my way and that tribe IS the self proclaimed enemy of dredgers so would not ever lift a finger for any amount of money-not a lawyer so not for sale-John

 

[Oakview2]

If it is the Karuks, don't know that I would trust that bunch in farther than I could throw them. JMHO

 

[NeoTokyo]

Nope, not the Karuks.
As far as I know, this tribe has never taken a negative stand against dredging.

I have two (well 3) dredges but the 2.5" is for sale.

1.) 2.5" 6.5hp Briggs setup. Gold King Pump, Keene Box, T80 Air, Power Nozzle.
2.) 4" 8hp Briggs driven Dredge. 100% Keene setup with T80 air, Jet style.
3.) 4" Underwater sluice/transfer box, not really what I would want to use though. I bought this to make an underwater electric dredge like the Aussie ones.
OPTIONAL: I also have available to me a 6" version of the above, but don't ever intend on buying it from my friend because its just too massive to make into an electric dredge.

So yeah, I have been collecting some gas powered toys.

 

[uglymailman]

I think every Tribe has it's own Rules/Laws. Some have Tribal Land and some have private ownership. Guy tells you it's ok to dredge there and later you find it's Tribal land it might not be so pretty. Good luck.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Hypothetically Speaking....

Its tribal land that he has ownership of through the counsel, I don't think he needs to have it OK'ed because I am cleaning the hole out for better fishing.
If he does though, I doubt it will be a problem to get it cleared as it is their responsibility to maintain those area's.

 

[NeoTokyo]

yeah, he said he's not going to ask, no need to.

Of course, all hypothetical. lol

 

[Reed Lukens]

That's going to be a lot of sand to move with the possibility of getting very little gold for all of the work, so I would say no. If they want their swimming hole cleaned out then come up with a price because it's going to take the right machine along with the right operator. Plus do they want a 50' hole or what. Your moving sand from a place that has had it removed again and again and you will probably want at least 75'of hose for a 50' hole because of the slope underwater. Your going to need more motor and a mid-jet for added suction.

 

[Armchair prospector]

It would be interesting if one tribe would let you dredge and another like the Karuks would not. This could create a very interesting problem between the tribes. Need pro dredging tribes to support our stand and let us dredge their land. Why do the Karuks have all the say?

 

[NeoTokyo]

The hole is pretty large, not entirely deep, but wide.
Honestly I think a Mini 6" would be the bare minimum there.

The first section that he wants me to work on is also probably the best paying section.
Its about 75' across but only about 10 or so feet deep. The immediate hole is probably 40' of the total 75'.
This is the whirlpool area where EVERYTHING that gets caught takes a lazy, slow oval ride inside this hole.
The Whirlpool area's length is much longer than it is wide, about 120' long but 40' wide.
At the back of this is where the huge sand dune starts.

Directly across the river to the fast flow is a HUGE riffle in the river, about 8' down and continues down behind the backcutting bedrock riffle much further than I can see. This spot sucks things down into that natural riffle, this is also probably going to be a good pay area too, but with much higher risk of something going wrong.

I am pretty sure that this tribe is Pro-Mining, they had a large gravel operation in town with washplants to take the gold out.

I am sure a lot of you can guess what River here in Nor-Cal I might be talking about.


If I manage to find enough right away with the 4" I will be looking at a mini 6" or mini 8" to finish cleaning out the hole.

 

[NeoTokyo]

And yes, I understand that there is a lot of resentment to Native American's in general because of the anti-dredging campaigns, but please keep in mind that these are not the Karuks and are not affiliated with them.

 

[dredgeman]

HELLO
river and channel maintenance is not covered by the dredge laws. So you are maintaining the river.

anything recovered is just maintenance.