California Claim Staking Questions

[robbieg]

Hello Everyone,

I'm in the process of trying to stake my first claim in California and was hoping I could get some help from people experienced with claims in my state.

My first question is regarding the California laws regarding the monuments and corner posts. I have searched extensiveley and can find a bunch of stuff for other states but nothing for CA. Can anyone tell me where to find the CA laws. I have the information that I got from the BLM office which has the federal requirements but it says to check state law as well. Do you need corner posts in CA? I ask because there are claims on both sides and I haven't seen any posts. I'm going to go search again after this next round of storms.

My second question is regarding the use of GPS for claim boundaries. Is it ok to use lat. and long. to find the corners of a claim? My plan is to get the coordinates from mylandmatters and map those on a GPS unit.

Last one. What can you do if one or more of the corners is in a dangerous location (steep/cliff), Is it ok to post a monument with directions to the corner?

Thank you so much for your help.

RG

 

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[winners58]

Cal. Pub. Res. Code § 3900
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/...&division=3.5.&title=&part=&chapter=&article=

erecting at the point of discovery thereon a conspicuous and substantial monument, and by posting in or on the monument a notice of location...
...
Where the United States survey has been extended over the land embraced in the location, the claim may be taken by legal subdivisions and no other reference than those of the survey shall be required, and the boundaries of a claim so located and described need not be staked or monumented. The description by legal subdivisions shall be deemed the equivalent of marking.

 

[robbieg]

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much. Don't know why I couldn't find that.

So maybe a dumb question now. How do you know if the land has a United States Survey?

Thanks again!

 

[winners58]

In mylandmatters claim maps turn on PLSS and PLSS second division, zoom in it will ether be township, range, section or government lot
https://www.blm.gov/or/programs/minerals/files/placer_claim_layout_examples.pdf

 

[mofugly13]

After you get the township/range/section info of the area you're looking at, you need to look up the Master Title Plat of that area. You will probably need to search for the MTP cheat sheet which explains how to decipher what you're looking at. It will show you patented land, the type of survey done, if any, and a whole bunch of other info. Learn to read it. Good luck.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Excellent advice Winners and mofugly.

For ease of use you can download the Master Title Plats at the Land Matters Land Status Map for your State.

To learn how to read those MTPs Land Matters offers Land Status Tutorials.

Keep a copy of the 1872 Mining Act for reference while you study. It's the basis of your right to claim valuable minerals as your own.

For all the California laws regarding mining claims on public lands study the link Winners provided.

If you read and understand those few items you will know more about locating mining claims than all the claims mongers on eBay and Craigslist.

Heavy Pans

 

[robbieg]

Thank you everyone for all the information! You've been a huge help.

I have some reading to do know....

 

[robbieg]

Good morning again everyone,

I found the master title plat (thank you mylandmatters!). The land is unpatented public land managed by the BLM.

So, regarding the CA law with legal subdivisions can you claim, for example, the northern half of the NE1/4SE1/4? Or do you have to reference the entire 1/4 section? I could use my wife as a second locator to claim the entire 40 acres, but I'm concerned that the land could be defined as not mineral-in-character (cliff side). Which from my research shows could be a problem in the future.

Thanks again for everyones help. I'm getting excited. I just wish the rain would go away =)

 

[Clay Diggins]

Make your placer claim descriptions in increments of 5 or more acres as equal and adjacent contiguous portions of the aliquot. If only a corner of the portions are touching it is not considered contiguous.

For instance if your discovered placer covers the northern 20 acres of the 40 acres represented as the NESE quarter quarter you would describe it as:

The 20 acres consisting of the N 1/2 of the NESE of XXX Meridian and Baseline, Township XX N (or S) Range XX E (or W), Section XX, County of XX, State of XX. Replace the Xs with the actual values for your location.

The NE 1/4 SE 1/4 you wrote implies an and which could be misunderstood to describe the East half of a section (80 acres). You could write it as the NE quarter of the SE quarter but it is proper and common notation to refer to the quarter quarter aliquots by their combined designations of NESE or SWNE etc. The first half of the quarter quarter designation (NESE) is the smaller portion of the last half of the designation (NESE). The maps describe which quarter quarter is which but it's a good idea to get familiar with how the notation is structured before you write a legal land description.

This stuff can be confusing at first so go slow and don't be afraid to ask questions.

Heavy Pans

 

[Hoser John]

Go directly to BLM.gov as the PROPER information is free under Claims Staking. Also the complete manual is cheap at most BLM offices. John

 

[Hamfist]

I am learning a ton from this thread. Thanks for the great information!

 

[robbieg]

Thank you Clay and John. I'm getting a handle on this now. I read the BLM manual several times now. So for twenty acres I would list it as (example):

20 Acre Placer Claim (1 locator) S1/2 NE1/4 NE1/4 SEC.20, T.10S., R21E., MDM

Right?

As far as the form goes does anyone know where I can find the latest version of CA 3800-01. I can find everything else on the BLM website except this one?

I did find this one thanks to google: http://desertphile.org/gold/ca3800-01_rev11-99.pdf

So, my plan is to erect a discovery monument. They say you have to post a location notice on the monument. What do people typically do? I found the aluminum signs online but what I read is you should put a copy of the location notice on the monument. Does that mean a photocopy? Maybe a laminated version?

Also, on the notice form if you're using the US Public Land Survey what do you fill in on #6A, 6B, & 6C?

Thank you so much. Sorry for all the questions but all the help is greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Clay Diggins]

There is no approved "form" for locating a mining claim. If there was it would have an OMB number on it. Government agencies can neither "conduct or sponsor a collection of information" without a full review process and issuance of an OMB control number with an expiration date for the form. The OMB number, date and notices must be printed on the form by law.

The DOI/BLM has not and will not sponsor a location notice form for two overriding reasons. The location of a mining claim is an individual claim of right based on the discovery of valuable minerals by a citizens own efforts - it is not a government required "collection of information". The prescribed method of locating a mining claim is in the hands of the State where the claim is located supplemented by the rules of the mining district it is located in.

In my experience the mining location notice forms circulating on the internet are all deficient in some way. No single form can fit all the different state's requirements or each location situation. For years the Arizona BLM office supplied a sample location notice that was missing several elements required by Arizona State law. The California forms I've seen are no better.

There is no federal regulation or approval for a mining claim location other than that found in the Mining Acts. There is no federal description or regulation of what a location notice must contain beyond what you find in the Mining Acts. Like so many things in mining you will have to look at your state's laws regarding location notices before you can form a proper public record.

Between the Mining Act and your State laws you will find everything you need to form a proper public record of your new location. The two exceptions to that will be if your claim is located in a powersite withdrawal or it's located on Stockraising Homestead private lands.We prepare all location notices from scratch to fit the location. You can too, it's really not rocket science.

Heavy Pans

 

[Hoser John]

Robie g-to answer your question on cliffs-just post a "witness monument" with exact real location and it's relation to the real corner. AGAIN just follow the manual. Also you never mentioned the first step to a claim which is DISCOVERY as a find is mandatory or just paper claiming in hopes of a find-that is what the discovery marker designates-the original discovery. EZ pz just follow the step by step in the manual-John

 

[Goldwasher]

you don't have to post a corner(s) for a placer claim in a surveyed area. Just description and map on file. After you make your discovery and place your location monument

 

[goldenIrishman]

Even though California does not require corner markers be placed, it's always a good idea to do so as a courtesy to other prospectors. Keeps the honest ones honest and puts the not so honest ones on notice. Signage is not expensive and just might keep that big old nugget on your claim sitting there till ya dig it up.

 

[robbieg]

Thanks guys. Do you think this qualifies as a discovery?

 

[Hoser John]

YAHOO YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS silence is golden as to who, what and where...John

 

[Clay Diggins]

The finding of gold within your location is enough for you to make a mining claim location that will defend the claim against subsequent prospectors and locators. This is known as having a "possessory interest" in minerals within your location. At that point your claim is adequate for you to exclude others from exploring or mining your claim for minerals.

A valid discovery is another matter entirely. Your "discovery" is not adequate to defend your claim against the interests of the United States. For a claim to have a valid discovery you will need to be able to prove that your unmined deposit meets the "prudent man rule" and the "marketability test". Those are all about proving that the valuable minerals that are still in the ground could be expected by a prudent man to be mined at a profit. Without proof of the quantity, quality and expense of mining, processing and marketing those valuable minerals you can not establish a valid discovery. Gold in the pan does not prove the quality or extent of your find is worth mining. Only gold established to be still in the ground to be mined can lead you to that conclusion.

Your finds are sufficient to make a valid mining claim to further explore for a valuable mineral deposit. Your finds do not constitute a valid discovery but they are sufficient to reserve your location for your own prospecting and exploration purposes until you do make a valid discovery.

Here are a few important Supreme Court cases to show you the distinction.

Cameron v. United States

A mining claim on public lands is a possessory interest in land that is "mineral in character" and as respects which discovery "within the limits of the claim" has been made. The discovery must be of such a character that "a person of ordinary prudence would be justified in the further expenditure of his labor and means, with a reasonable prospect of success, in developing a valuable mine."

United States v. Coleman

Minerals which no prudent man will extract because there is no demand for them at a price higher than the cost of extraction and transportation are hardly economically valuable. Thus, profitability is an important consideration in applying the prudent man test, and the marketability test which the Secretary has used here merely recognizes this fact.

The word "discovery" is often bantered around on these forums as if the mere finding of gold suffices to prove a discovery of valuable minerals. It's often been misunderstood that the right to locate a mining claim is dependent on making a valid discovery first. That's simply not true. The discovery validates the claim as required by law but lack of a valid discovery does not prevent one from locating a claim. Here's how the courts have dealt with that all too common misunderstanding:

C. A. Davis et al., Appellants, v. Neal Nelson, State Director, Bureau of Land Management

A common practice in the western states among prospectors who intend more than a casual exploration of an area thought to contain mineral is first to locate, mark and record the boundaries of the claim, and then to expend time, labor, money and energy on the prospect. Such occupation and working of the claim, even before discovery, gives the locator a limited defendable right of possession and a right which is, in some respects, alienable. The right of pedis possessio is one which may be transferred by transfer of possession because it rests on actual possession, accompanied by deed, lease or assignment of the color of title represented by the local location and recording of the claim.

In advance of discovery an explorer in actual occupation and diligently searching for mineral is treated as a licensee or tenant at will, and no right can be initiated or acquired through a forcible, fraudulent or clandestine intrusion upon his possession. But if his occupancy be relaxed, or be merely incidental to something other than a diligent search for mineral, and another enters peaceably, and not fraudulently or clandestinely, and makes a mineral discovery and location, the location so made is valid and must be respected accordingly.'

Whatever may be the rights acquired by a prospector, who locates a mining claim prematurely and before actual discovery of valuable mineral, in the defense of his actual possession against third persons, it is clear under both the mining law and the regulations that a discovery of valuable mineral is the sine qua non of an entry to initiate vested rights against the United States. The premature location of such a claim and the recordation of certificates or notices of location cast a cloud upon the title of the United States to the lands, as the law contemplates that discovery must coincide with the physical location of the claims.

This is not to say that citizens, and those who have declared their intention to become such, do not also have and enjoy a statutory right to prospect and explore the public domain. Nor do we imply that it is an actionable wrong for a good faith prospector to locate a claim in furtherance and in protection of the right of pedis possessio while pursuing his more thorough exploration. But the validity of his title, claimed and asserted by the location of the claim and the recordation of notices, depends upon the resolution of a question of fact, that is, has there been a discovery of valuable mineral within the limits of the claim?

I've given you a lot to read here but my intent is to guide you to the actual facts about discovery and mining claim validity. Read the court decisions instead of relying on the unjustified simplification that a valid discovery is mandatory before making a claim. Neither the law nor the customs of miners demand that you establish a valid valuable mineral discovery before making a claim. On the other hand finding some gold does not establish a valid valuable mineral discovery.

Mining claims are a part of the prospect - locate - explore - discover - mine/patent process. They are not the end result but just a way of securing the minerals against other prospectors so you can complete the required steps to establish a valid valuable mineral discovery.

You found some beautiful gold. Congratulations and enjoy exploring your new mining claim.

Heavy Pans

 

[crumbaker]

Thanks so much for this. Very useful information.