Calling all "clay" haters!!

[Wishbone]

Calling all "clay" hater's!!

Being a new miner, I've always been fascinated at the love/hate relationship between miner's and clay. They do the dance of joy when they find a layer of clay with a bounty of gold sitting right on top, or breaking through the false bedrock of clay and finding the payload there.
Only to curse the very same clay as they fight to combat it's relentless grip on gold and anything else that it comes into contact with! Even the most patient miner's cringe at the dreaded word "CLAY".
Here is what I have found so far.
There are many type's of clay. Which I AM NOT going to talk about because in terms of "fun", I'd rather stick an ice pick in my ear, then get that boring. I have found out that there are things that miner's add to clay, in an attempt to:
1. Settle the clay in the water faster in recirculating systems, to avoid pump burnout and run cleaner water.
2. Make clay release it's grip on our beloved gold and other valuables.
It's the first one that I need help with (to start with)! I want to run a recirculating system with a few tub's, and need advise on settling the clay in my water. I don't want any dangerous chemicals, and right now the best advise I have been given is 1/2 Borax, mixed with 1/2 Calgon Water Softener. The reason why I think this is good advise is because they are both, readily available, cheap, and safe to use.
Is there anyone out there that doesn't fear the dreaded CLAY, I really could use some advise, please!

 

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[Gold Cube]

Have a look at this video, it shows gravel used to break up the clay, just like the crop of a chicken, I call it Gizzard Gold, Mike. https://youtu.be/7tj2NuByBK0?t=706

 

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[chlsbrns]

Ok, I just want to make sure I have a grip on what you are teaching us:
Soda ash will raise the PH level in my water, dropping the clay like a bad habit. Mix the soda ash in warm water (slowly, so it won't clump up) but do not boil the water. Wear eye protection, long sleeve's and mix it standing up wind or in a ventilated area to avoid inhaling. It's better to have "to little" soda ash, then "to much".

Use Lissapol-N as a surfactant to help break surface tension for all the minerals and precious metals (floating gold). Jet Dry will not work as it usually does, because of the high PH level's caused by the soda ash reaction. Again, mix sparingly because you can always add more as needed. Does that sound about right?

Claydiggin's from your experience what is the best source and/or provider of Lissapol-N?

You and everyone else should really do your own research and not take anyones advice without backing it up be verifying the info yourself. You are all excited to try something that is going to do the opposite of what you want.

You want the clay to drop out of suspension and settle. A floculant is what you want! Soda ash is a deflocculant and will do the opposite of what you want.

A flocculant will cause fine particles of clay to come together and drop to clarify the water. A deflocculant will disolve clay and leave it suspended. In other words the water will be a muddy mess.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sod...ourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#q=deflocculant

https://www.google.com/search?q=sod...hrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#q=soda+ash+deflocculant

 

[Asmbandits]

You and everyone else should really do your own research and not take anyones advice without backing it up be verifying the info yourself. You are all excited to try something that is going to do the opposite of what you want.

You want the clay to drop out of suspension and settle. A floculant is what you want! Soda ash is a deflocculant and will do the opposite of what you want.

A flocculant will cause fine particles of clay to come together and drop to clarify the water. A deflocculant will disolve clay and leave it suspended. In other words the water will be a muddy mess.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sod...ourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#q=deflocculant

https://www.google.com/search?q=sod...hrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#q=soda+ash+deflocculant

I would think to break apart clay to release gold you would want to do just that, make it break apart. How would the opposite having it clump up be beneficial to separating the gold from clay? This sounds like the opposite of what you would want and of the correct info everyone else provided, what a surprise..

 

[chlsbrns]

I would think to break apart clay to release gold you would want to do just that, make it break apart. How would the opposite having it clump up be beneficial to separating the gold from clay? This sounds like the opposite of what you would want and of the correct info everyone else provided, what a surprise..

All that you need to do is read the first post in the thread! You were the second one to reply giving your advice! As usual I am correct! What a surprise!

Being a new miner, I've always been fascinated at the love/hate relationship between miner's and clay. They do the dance of joy when they find a layer of clay with a bounty of gold sitting right on top, or breaking through the false bedrock of clay and finding the payload there.
Only to curse the very same clay as they fight to combat it's relentless grip on gold and anything else that it comes into contact with! Even the most patient miner's cringe at the dreaded word "CLAY".
Here is what I have found so far.
There are many type's of clay. Which I AM NOT going to talk about because in terms of "fun", I'd rather stick an ice pick in my ear, then get that boring. I have found out that there are things that miner's add to clay, in an attempt to:
1. Settle the clay in the water faster in recirculating systems, to avoid pump burnout and run cleaner water.
2. Make clay release it's grip on our beloved gold and other valuables.
It's the first one that I need help with (to start with)! I want to run a recirculating system with a few tub's, and need advise on settling the clay in my water. I don't want any dangerous chemicals, and right now the best advise I have been given is 1/2 Borax, mixed with 1/2 Calgon Water Softener. The reason why I think this is good advise is because they are both, readily available, cheap, and safe to use.
Is there anyone out there that doesn't fear the dreaded CLAY, I really could use some advise, please!

He also didn't want to use dangerous chemicals. I gave the info that he asked for and then the usual happened!
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/g...0-calling-all-clay-hater-s-2.html#post4917572

 

[motohed]

Sounds like we have another , more off topic rant going On . Can't we all just get along . I guess this will turn into another locked thread , with the last word twist !!

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I was giving bill a clue to fix the misspellings in his sig! His sig says speck and ruled instead of speak and ruler.

Gezzz... You guys never get it!

I got $10 on it was his language arts teacher

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I want to nugget more and speck less! ;-)

You are already speckless enough! In fact you might be specklesstackular!

 

[Wishbone]

No, chlsbrns is right (I think), I want to drop the clay so it settles in the tub water faster, mining in a acidic environment/soil. So raising the PH level is still the right answer....isn't it??.....gosh darn it, now you got me a confused? I plan to vacuum the clay off the bottom of my tub's with my home-made PVC hand dredge and then test the clay separate. I can crush it, dry it, bake it, pan it or whatever I want, and see if there's any colour to be had.
If not, I'll just consider the clay a bothersome cost of doing business, as a miner. So now I know for sure if I want a "flocculant" it will be soda ash. Not the tainted Walmart soda ash, but pure uncut swimming pool soda ash. I can't believe it, forty years have gone by, and I'm still looking for a hash dealer...sorry...ash, ash.Maybe that's why I'm confused, I'm stoned on ash...lol.
And if I really do want a defocculant, which one is the best for mining/miners?? PLEASE, give me the defocciiinng answer!!!!

 

[chlsbrns]

You do not want soda ash. Soda ash will not clarify the water it will make the water dirtier and cloudier than using nothing.

A flocculant clears the water.

https://youtu.be/WsfWeLApRl0

 

[kcm]

I still like the flushable filter idea - less stress on my last remaining brain cell.

Maybe try things simple to start with. Then if the area looks promising, see if adding the chemicals will show improved results.

KISS - Keep It Stupidly Simple

 

[Asmbandits]

No, chlsbrns is right (I think), I want to drop the clay so it settles in the tub water faster, mining in a acidic environment/soil. So raising the PH level is still the right answer....isn't it??.....gosh darn it, now you got me a confused? I plan to vacuum the clay off the bottom of my tub's with my home-made PVC hand dredge and then test the clay separate. I can crush it, dry it, bake it, pan it or whatever I want, and see if there's any colour to be had.
If not, I'll just consider the clay a bothersome cost of doing business, as a miner. So now I know for sure if I want a "flocculant" it will be soda ash. Not the tainted Walmart soda ash, but pure uncut swimming pool soda ash. I can't believe it, forty years have gone by, and I'm still looking for a hash dealer...sorry...ash, ash.Maybe that's why I'm confused, I'm stoned on ash...lol.
And if I really do want a defocculant, which one is the best for mining/miners?? PLEASE, give me the defocciiinng answer!!!!

I can see what he is saying, I read the original post but still tend to think you want the clay to separate as much as possible and have multiple settling tubs to allow the clay to settle out. Not sure if adding a floculant would cause a coagulation affect or settle out the clay when recirculating, especially without staged separation tubs. I think the key with or without chemical would be staged settling tubs. I know from experience in the automated car wash industry there are stages of "pits" all connected to settle out the dirt and grim washed from the vehicles to allow only waste water to be drained out while the solids stay in the pits. They are settling tanks staged together to allow the separation. Once every 6 months the solids which are an oily clay/dirt muck are sucked out. The city has strict regulations on this to keep oils and dirt from entering the sewer system. I think this is going to be key in a reticulation system.

 

[chlsbrns]

Try pouring some of your clay water thru a coffee filter. See how long it takes for a few ounces to clog the filter and stop the flow of water.

 

[Wishbone]

I posted the video below earlier in the thread, because this is the type of set up that I'll be running. His tub's are twice the size as mine, but his water is running about 2 times faster then mine (mine is 1150 gph). Notice how in the video, he doesn't seem to run very much material in the ol' backyard, yet look how cloudy his humongous tub's are already? Imagine how fast if that were shovel fulls of dirt, and not a scoop full.
At the claim, we don't have a garden hose for water, and try fitting those tub's full of water in a Dodge Caravan...lol. I'm going up to the claim next week, I'm going to bring some material home and experiment with it! Yiippeee, the snow is thawing as we speak.

 

[chlsbrns]

Huh? You plan on carrying three 15 gallon tubs full of water? Plus your equipment?

 

[Wishbone]

Huh? You plan on carrying three 15 gallon tubs full of water? Plus your equipment?

No, mine are just small Walmart type tub's.

 

[chlsbrns]

You said the tubs in the vid are 2 times the size of yours. The tubs in the vid are 30 gallons each. A gallon of water weighs a little over 8 pounds. Thats a whole lot to carry or even unload. Your claim is in BC? With no water?

 

[Wishbone]

You said the tubs in the vid are 2 times the size of yours. The tubs in the vid are 30 gallons each. A gallon of water weighs a little over 8 pounds. Thats a whole lot to carry or even unload. Your claim is in BC? With no water?

LMAO...roughly, ballpark, in the neighbourhood? I have never measured how much water my own tub holds, let alone have a clue how much his does.

 

[chlsbrns]

In the video he says that they are 30 gallon tubs. Do yourself a favor. Bring a few empty plastic 55 gallon drums to your claim and make large funnels or even something like a slick plate. Rain and snow will fill them thru the winter. Add some rock salt to keep the water from freezing! Actually you can cut them in half and they will be filled throughout the fall/winter/spring. The sediments will settle on their own inbetween your trips to the claim and you will have plenty of water to use.

 

[Wishbone]

In the video he says that they are 30 gallon tubs. Do yourself a favor. Bring a few empty plastic 55 gallon drums to your claim and make large funnels or even something like a slick plate. Rain and snow will fill them thru the winter. Add some rock salt to keep the water from freezing! Actually you can cut them in half and they will be filled throughout the fall/winter/spring. The sediments will settle on their own inbetween your trips to the claim and you will have plenty of water to use.

Good one, he did! Must be the ash.

 

[chlsbrns]

Yes It's becoming apparent that the ash also causes problems with the brain. Lol! I think more studies on ash need to be done! Hahaha! Funny!