Can you take over a closed placer mine?

[jvan]

So I was looking at the LR2000 and looking near my area and found a 20 acre claim almost walking distance to my home that is BLM status " CLOSED " last year

09/01/2013
CLAIM ABANDONED/FORFEITED
NO 2014 MTF/WAIVER

under remarks it says " RTN MAIL FOR XXXXXXX NO FORWARDING ADDRESS

So it shows the fee is $155 a year, does anyone know how I can file or take over the rights of this gold claim?

any help would be great

 

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[jvan]

So I just wanted to post a summery of everything and how everything went,

1. Was searching on Google Earth with Mine map overlays, Found a claim walking distance to my property line, so I went on LR2000 and searched the claim status, found out that the past claim owner did not pay his Sept 1st MTF, and so claim was forfeited and July of this year a forfeited decision was issued by BLM.

2. Did some more research with the LLD, and geocomm site, found more precise claim location.

3. Went down to the claim to check for recent claim signs, only found one old marker, I put down a few markers using the best judgement area of the map/claim location.

4. Went down to the county recorders office, they were no help and sent me to the county assessors office, so they were helpful, they gave me the old claim owners Mining Claim Location Notice, and they pin pointed the claim down to almost exact area.

5. Went to BLM, they told me I needed to file with them first then county, but found out filing with the county recorders office is the correct process ( I guess ) So I paid $21 to the county recorders office, and $212 to BLM, got everything recorded and new claim number.

6. Posted 4 signs today on the claim, As far as I can tell I am all good to go besides every Sept paying the $155 fee.

As far as everything I can tell the claim is legally my claim..... It was a headache and much research, I am sure if I get another one it won't be as bad....

Clay Diggins was SUPER helpful, and I am grateful for his knowledge and help..

Few others pointed me in the right direction as well so thank you guys...

It is great to have a Placerville claim that is almost in your backyard and my first 5min sample showed a few colors in the pan... Right on the North Fork...

Thanks Y'all, sorry for the typos, on phone..

 

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[TheGoldProspector]

So I just wanted to post a summery of everything and how everything went, 1. Was searching on Google Earth with Mine map overlays, Found a claim walking distance to my property line, so I went on LR2000 and searched the claim status, found out that the past claim owner did not pay his Sept 1st MTF, and so claim was forfeited and July of this year a forfeited decision was issued by BLM. 2. Did some more research with the LLD, and geocomm site, found more precise claim location. 3. Went down to the claim to check for recent claim signs, only found one old marker, I put down a few markers using the best judgement area of the map/claim location. 4. Went down to the county recorders office, they were no help and sent me to the county assessors office, so they were helpful, they gave me the old claim owners Mining Claim Location Notice, and they pin pointed the claim down to almost exact area. 5. Went to BLM, they told me I needed to file with them first then county, but found out filing with the county recorders office is the correct process ( I guess ) So I paid $21 to the county recorders office, and $212 to BLM, got everything recorded and new claim number. 6. Posted 4 signs today on the claim, As far as I can tell I am all good to go besides every Sept paying the $155 fee. As far as everything I can tell the claim is legally my claim..... It was a headache and much research, I am sure if I get another one it won't be as bad.... Clay Diggins was SUPER helpful, and I am grateful for his knowledge and help.. Few others pointed me in the right direction as well so thank you guys... It is great to have a Placerville claim that is almost in your backyard and my first 5min sample showed a few colors in the pan... Right on the North Fork... Thanks Y'all, sorry for the typos, on phone..

Wow! Congrats! Great story indeed

 

[SHoward]

Good job !!

 

[Underburden]

Geesh, don't wait until September to file your annuals. Sept is the DEADLINE...you can file in June if you want to.
Also, why would you want to pay $155 per year when you can file a small miner waiver and annual assessment form and pay just $10 to BLM.
You've got a little more research to do but congrats on your new claim.

 

[jvan]

Underburden, I know all about the small miner wavier and annual assessment form. I have 9 months before I need to do anything. I know sept is the deadline, your reading my exact words to literal.

BTW: this is just a hobby for me to do....

Considering 60 days ago I did not even know about BLM or how mining claims work, I think I have researched and learned quite a bit as I spent hours upon hours reading... Still learning... thanks everyone

Geesh, don't wait until September to file your annuals. Sept is the DEADLINE...you can file in June if you want to.
Also, why would you want to pay $155 per year when you can file a small miner waiver and annual assessment form and pay just $10 to BLM.
You've got a little more research to do but congrats on your new claim.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Congrats! If you have water running through it, I have a 4 inch dredge. I'm sure we could work out an agreement!

 

[KevinInColorado]

Congrats, well done!

 

[Bonaro]

Sounds like you have it covered but remember on the first year you also have to file a Notice of Intent to Hold in addition to all regular paperwork

 

[fowledup]

"BTW, This is just a hobbyfor me to do."

No, its a part time job you hope to make fulltime! Diggins work, stamp collecting is a hobby! Congratulations by the way, you've achieved the dream - a gold bearing stream in your backyard!

 

[jvan]

Maybe, I can only hope so, point is I am not getting my hopes up that I will pull a good amount of gold out, but hey if I do I will work daily down there, as I work from home from home with my own business and that only takes 1-2 hours a day in the morning, by 10am I am sitting around bored looking to build something or do something!

So yeah would be nice,,, This weekend I am going to try to run a yard or two and see what amount of gold comes my way...

I will keep ya'll updated

"BTW, This is just a hobbyfor me to do."

No, its a part time job you hope to make fulltime! Diggins work, stamp collecting is a hobby! Congratulations by the way, you've achieved the dream - a gold bearing stream in your backyard!

 

[Goldwasher]

Cool. Told ya there was gold in the area. What was the access for the previous leasee? If he wasn't local maybe it was just a pain in the but for him/them. The location notice has his contact info. You may be able to contact him and get helpful info.You only need a location notice in California as long as you follow the plss survey. you don't have to mark all four corners. I can help walk you through the small miner waiver, labor assessment and filings for next year. It was awesome to pay less than $60.00 in fee's this year.

 

[jvan]

Hey man, Yes you were indeed right even though many told me there would be no gold there was... I took 3 sample areas, one from moss down on that river rocks, and then up about 75 feet from the river right from the dirt 6 inches deep and then took a sample from about 100 yards up mountian from the river, all 3 samples showed color the 2 samples samples close to the river is where the most color was found..

The specs were very small, but I don't care it clearly shows me its gold bearing and just need to do more sampling to find good spot and maybe dig deeper.

As far as the last claim owner, I think he had 2 access spots, both I would imangie would take him 2mins to hike down from where you can park off the pull off.

Lucky for my I am renting my house up here and it is 50 acres that backs up right to the claim it's self...

As far as contacting the old claim owner he was from Rancho Cordova, so he was a local but problem is that is how he lost the claim as BLM notices got returned and had no forwarding address...

I can tell you think I think he paid $3,000+ for this claim because I think I spotted some old claim listings that pretty much describe my claim, plus it shows it was transferred before, not a new claim...

But as far as filing yeah man lets stay in touch and if you want to meet up anytime come out to the claim with me let me know I am always looking for people to go down the hill with me, currently I trot it 4-5 days a week alone just to get out of the house..

Thanks ya'll

Cool. Told ya there was gold in the area. What was the access for the previous leasee? If he wasn't local maybe it was just a pain in the but for him/them. The location notice has his contact info. You may be able to contact him and get helpful info.You only need a location notice in California as long as you follow the plss survey. you don't have to mark all four corners. I can help walk you through the small miner waiver, labor assessment and filings for next year. It was awesome to pay less than $60.00 in fee's this year.

 

[SLNugget]

I was going to reply to your PM privately jvan but as I get these questions a lot and there is nothing in my post that involves your location I'm putting it here so others can learn.

I map mineral lands and claims for mining companies. You will need to get a better grip on what a claim is and how the process is handled before you waste your money or your time.

It sounds like you've found a good location that might be open to claim.

The process we use professionally is to:

1. Determine what the Legal Land Description (LLD) is. The LLD consists of the Meridian, Township, Range, Section, Quarter Section and aliquot part of the location. You can determine that description from the Public Land Survey System (PLSS). The PLSS is the Legal Land Description by which mining claims are made by. That's the law and has been since 1789 - no matter what parcel# the tax assessors office call it. You can determine the PLSS of your location by using the Land Status Map and turning on the PLSS layer and zooming in to your area of interest.

2. Take that LLD and look up the land status on the Master Title Plat map for the Township your claim is in. This will tell you if the land is claimable or closed to claims. All restrictions will be noted on the Master Title Plat and it's supplements. You can download a free copy of that Master Title Plat at the Government Land Office website.

If the land you are interested comes up as locatable on the Master Title Plat go to number 3 below. If not you will not be able to make the claim. Just because somebody claimed land before doesn't mean it was claimable. The BLM is well known for accepting claim files and money on claims they will eventually challenge and close.

3. Look up the LLD on the BLM LR2000 database website. This will tell you the current file status for all the claims in the LLD. If a new claim is filed with the BLM it could take anywhere from a week to more than a year before it will show up there. Even so it's a free stop and the information you get on the area claims will help you at the next step.

Just because the BLM shows or doesn't show an open (or closed) claim where you are looking you still don't know the whole story until you do the next two steps.

4. Check for Mining Claim Location Notices for that LLD at the County Recorders Office. If you got a list of the closed claims, with their location date, you can eliminate those claims from your final list - much cheaper.

Most Counties have an online search feature so you can look that up yourself at home. Find the Mining Location Notices, Location Amendments and annual filings for the closed claim and all the claims nearby. You will need the grantors names and the Book and Page each is recorded on.

Mining Claim Location Notice and Legal Land Description are how County Recorder's deal with Mining Claims. They don't keep a map of claims. They do not do searches for location notices without knowing the Grantor name, or the Grantee, or the LLD or the Book and Page. Most Counties charge for record searches that don't have at least two of the above classifications. The County Recorder can help you a lot, treat them well and it can be easy.

Once you have a list of the Book and Page Numbers for the above recordings contact the County Recorder (mail, phone, email, walk in doesn't matter) and order copies of all the pages of each Recording on your list. There will be a charge for this but by having the Names and Book and Page Numbers you only have to pay for the copies - not thousands of dollars in research fees. You do not need the copies certified.

5. Take the information from the claims records you got that are currently active and draw out each claim on a topo map. There should be a map with each claim location. Once you have all the active claims on the map look and see if the area you are interested in is still open (no other claims there). Don't try to "fix" the claim locations if they overlap - that happens and it's one of the things you are looking for on your map. It's entirely possible the claim that was dropped there was an overclaim and there really isn't anything open.

6. If everything looks clear once you've done the above steps it's time to put the boots on the ground. Take your map with you and look around the claim area and see if there are any recent monuments or stakes. LOOK for a new claim there. If it's all good go ahead and put up a monument stake with your location notice and map and mark the claim boundaries.

How you stake and how you describe the claim (aliquot part or metes and bounds) will be determined by what you learned about the area of land you are claiming. In most cases a simple LLD is all you will need as a description. Sometimes you will need to use metes and bounds (distance and direction). You won't know that until you have made your map and checked the location on the ground.

At that point you might have a valid claim. Everyone who locates a claim in California has 90 days to make a public Mining Claim Location Notice at the County Recorder and to give an informational notice, pay fees and obtain a claim number from the BLM. In other words somebody else might already have made a claim there before you but they just haven't made their recording/filing yet. It's all about who puts up the first monument, not when you record or file the location.

Doing these things out of order can waste a lot of time and when it comes to staking, recording or filing your claims it could invalidate them. I've put several links in here to help you along.

Questions are welcome but please be patient - I'm really busy right now and answers may be slow.

Heavy Pans

THIS POST NEEDS TO BE A STICKY - I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS INFORMATION PRESENTED IN A MORE ACCURATE, CONCISE AND UNDERSTANDABLE FORMAT.

Thanks Barry for your willingness to share your experience and knowledge.

 

[jvan]

I agree!
Barry is one smart guy!

 

[fowledup]

Don't waste your sampling efforts log them and chart them on a map, in time you will have a good picture of whats going on with your claim. Also probe the river and chart the bedrock depth as well, it will save you some digging and help you pinpoint where to dig.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Don't waste your sampling efforts log them and chart them on a map, in time you will have a good picture of whats going on with your claim. Also probe the river and chart the bedrock depth as well, it will save you some digging and help you pinpoint where to dig.

Mmmmmmm, bedrock..... You're making my mouth water.

 

[jvan]

Still learning how to sample and map the areas hope i get it down pat..

 

[Jason in Enid]

Still learning how to sample and map the areas hope i get it down pat..

Try to get some depth at each sample point, don't just sample the surface. Keep notes of exactly how many colors your get from each sample and mark each sample location on the map.

 

[jvan]

so each sample location I should dig as deep as I can to hit bedrock ?

 

[Jason in Enid]

Depends on how deep the soil is. A post-hole auger works well if it's not too rocky, but every site is different.