Charged with Vandalism and Looking for Guidance

[jrmazzeo]

I am in the middle of a terrible metal detecting experience that I wanted to share and get some feedback on.

I was recently detecting on the common of the town I live in, something I and others have done many times before and which is not prohibited by the town bylaws. While retrieving a target I was approached by a police office who yelled "Hey a**hole, what the hell do you think you are doing?" I explained to him that I was metal detecting the common and reiterated that it was not illegal to do so. He asked for my license and called it into the station and then told me to leave and that I was forbidden to be on the common and that I should expect a summons in the mail.

Two weeks later I received said summons and was charged with vandalism, which is a felony in my state. I immediately hired a lawyer and waited for the arraignment, which occurred last week. The police report cited damage to the grass and potentially the sprinklers, with the evidence being photos the officer took after I left showing what a typical, neat filled in hole looks like.

I have subsequently taken photos of the area I was digging showing that no damage was done.

Has anyone else experienced this before? Any ideas on how to fight this charge?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

So I checked out your laws. Specifically this explanation:....

Here's another way to look at it: I know this all sounds "scary" . When there's verbiage alluding to "prison" "3 yr jail" blah blah blah. And as you say yourself: Scary to newbies . Who immediately think "the sky is falling" and rush to get everyone's blessing wherever they go "lest this happen to them", blah blah.

But think of it: Can you cite ANY incident of ANYONE ever getting "jail" for md'ing ? Heck EVEN A FINE ? Extremely rare. I'll bet that if ANYONE can come up with any link to someone getting jail, fine, or confiscations, it will invariably always be for someone night sneaking obvious monuments. Or someone being a total nuisance that couldn't take a warning, etc...

On a few rare occasions there's a fluke for someone who honestly didn't know he was at a site crawling with archies perhaps.

But seriously now: Can ANYONE cite an incident of a fine or jail for an innocuous city park ? I doubt it. Therefore incident such as this should be looked at as flukes. By over-zealous cops. No different than how occasionally you might read of a motorist roughed up and ticketed and jailed for nothing but a tail-light out. (yet that doesn't stop any of us from driving). Flukes can happen. The question is: Is it a norm ? Or a fluke ? If we let the rare exceptions rule our lives, is the day we'll cower in fear and never step out onto the sidewalk .

 

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[Denny45]

So I checked out your laws. Specifically this explanation:



Technically, you could be found to have been wanton/careless if your digging caused damage. They'll have to prove that your actions caused damage. This should include photos and testimony from someone able to determine value of losses. ie. A maintenance guy that can explain how much the grass costs, sprinklers, etc.

The unfortunate side is they may blame you for more than you actually did. If other hunters dug there that day or previously caused damage they could try to pin that on you. They'd have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt though.

Your best bet is to let your attorney speak to their DAs and work something out. That's either getting the case thrown out or you pleading to something less.

My recommendation... let things run its course and don't detect there anymore. This is something that is definitely discouraging to people like me (new to detecting). This is why I've been working really hard on my digging technique and I won't dig past 4 inches or so on public property (like parks). I'm also thinking of recording my digs. Or taking a before and after photo. So I can show that my digging left no damage. That doesn't mean that weeks later my digging won't kill some grass or cause issues... but if I can minimize it, I will.

What you won't dig more than 4 inches or so. How do you expect to find any oldies? You'll have to go down 6 inches or more.

 

[boogeyman]

At least get a copy of the irrigation plans for the park or even just the statement of a park worker how deep the lines are for the sprinkler mains. Around here they're 12 or deeper. If you're in areas that freeze below the frost line. To the officer, how long was my probe? Stay away from digger, shovel, etc. Spend a little time checking the area parks with your camera or phone hopefully getting photos with date & time of anyone doing anything close to digging. Your question? Did these individuals get cited? Wouldn't that be selective enforcement? Get your attorney get as many postponements as possible. If the officer doesn't show it should get thrown out. It's like fighting a speeding ticket. You have the right to subpoena any and all witnesses against you into court. You subpoena the officer, his training records, the unit he was in, it's service record, the radar gun, its service records, the survey of the area where you were clocked. Sounds like a bunch of effort, it is! The PD or court looks at $$ n cents! How many man hours etc is it going to take to gather everything together & to the court? More than the fine. So out goes your case and nine times out of ten as a last one finger salute they won't tell you it got dropped. You'll show up and not see your name on the docket. They'll bounce you down to the DAs office and an asst. DA will come out and say "Whoops we forgot to tell you it got dropped" Think costing them more money than it's worth, it's all about generating $$$ for the jurisdiction.

 

[Honest Samuel]

I'd be more concerned with an Officer of the Law addressing a taxpayer starting with, "Hey, A-hole..."

Have your council make his life miserable. Hit him in the wallet and make him cry.

You are correct. Sue for embarrassment, harassment, emotional distress. Complaint to the police chief. Hope that he gets fire. Good luck.

 

[Escape]

MAKE A DEAL!!! There not really interested in you. They want bigger fish. There more interested in suppliers. Talk and tell them where you got your detector before they sweat it out of you. Also don’t show them your trash. Thats liable to really piss them off. The only other suggestion I can offer is tell them you thought you were in your yard detecting and that your not sure how you got there. Just a thought.

 

[PirateLabs]

MAKE A DEAL!!! There not really interested in you. They want bigger fish. There more interested in suppliers. Talk and tell them where you got your detector before they sweat it out of you. Also don’t show them your trash. Thats liable to really piss them off. The only other suggestion I can offer is tell them you thought you were in your yard detecting and that your not sure how you got there. Just a thought.

If you give up your supplier, then you will have to go into the MDWPP. (Metal Detectorist Witness Protection Program) Then you will be relocated to a small village near the Arctic Circle where, due to the temperatures, you can only metal detect 1.3 days/year. I would just clam up and do the time. Besides, a lot of rats get whacked you know. Hard to metal detect while looking over your shoulder.

Bill

 

[Tom_in_CA]

pirate-labs, that was the funniest post of the day on t'net !

 

[PirateLabs]

pirate-labs, that was the funniest post of the day on t'net !

Thanks but, Escape started the idea and I just carried it on a bit more. I burst out laughing when I read his post.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Stoof2010]

Wow. Just read the thread. This is nuts. At first I thought it was out of country but you're in Massachusetts.... That's crazy.
I've been kicked out of parks before and now have permission from parks and rec Dept of a city next to mine to detect in their parks. There are 30+ of them.
I never thought this could happen.

When you say hunting the common.... What is that?

 

[beekbuster]

very sorry to hear your dilemma. i thought california was crazy, Massachusetts is the only state that trumps california on crazy laws. any decent judge would throw out this case. asinine is a a huge understatement.

 

[sprailroad]

This whole thing is absolutely insane, combined with absolute lack of common sense, and sadly that could probably happen anywhere, not just in Mass.

(comment removed for politics)

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Spiralroad, welcome to TreasureNet, your new and may not be aware of our rules but please keep political statements out of posts per our rules, we have a politics forum under charter members if your interested in politics.

Thanks..

 

[Tnmountains]

We used to laugh when we would recover a lead civil war bullet and exclaim we were once again saving the water table from contaminates. I hope that your case goes well and you filled your holes well. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

 

[cudamark]

very sorry to hear your dilemma. i thought california was crazy, Massachusetts is the only state that trumps california on crazy laws. any decent judge would throw out this case. asinine is a a huge understatement.

Hey now, there are a lot of states worse than Ca when it comes to metal detecting. My friend just moved to Idaho and has to get a permit! NY city has permits too, along with many other places. At least we don't have any here that I'm aware of.

 

[Peyton Manning]

sheesh, just go in, tell the judge you demand a jury trial and have an hour video that will prove your innocence!
case dismissed

 

[Tom_in_CA]

sheesh, just go in, tell the judge you demand a jury trial and have an hour video that will prove your innocence!
case dismissed

Hmmm, or how about if he goes in their mumbling, wearing a Napoleon hat, with a hand tucked under his shirt in Napoleon fashion. Mumble and stutter uncontrollably, wet your pants, slobber, and ..... they'll just let you go because you're too much trouble to deal with ?

 

[catherine1]

Tell them the Constitution gives you happiness and liberty to detect......200 years ago. WTF.

 

[Peyton Manning]

Hmmm, or how about if he goes in their mumbling, wearing a Napoleon hat, with a hand tucked under his shirt in Napoleon fashion. Mumble and stutter uncontrollably, wet your pants, slobber, and ..... they'll just let you go because you're too much trouble to deal with ?

I like that as well

 

[rotty23]

I think it would be a shame to have a felony conviction on your record for simply metal detecting...that stupid charge would affect this mans life forever...what a damn shame!

 

[rotty23]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions on this situation. I really like the suggestion from Treasure_Hunter to bring in trash that was removed.

I am a bit torn on what to do if an offer to reduce the charges is forthcoming. On the one hand I want to see this nightmare end. On the other hand I feel quite strongly that I did nothing wrong so why compromise. Next hearing is early May, will keep everyone posted.

If found not guilty that jerk cop should have to pay your lawyer fee