CLAIMS

[IDdesertman]

The stuff posted in the thread about claim jumping prompted me to ask this. I'm fairly new to nugget shooting and I have to say that I find the concept of claims to be very odd. Obviously some folks are passionate about their right to claim mineral rights, but as someone new to the hobby it's strange to me that a guy can't go on public land and metal detect without being nervous about being on someones claim. I can understand the reason for it 150 years ago, but it seems odd in this day and age. I spend alot of time researching areas to go detecting and alot of gas exploring areas (and using geocommunicator), and most often I find nasty signs telling me to keep out. Why does a weekend recreationist have to try so hard just to go nugget shooting on public land? To me everyone should have equal access to public land, including prospecting, but it sounds like I am probably in the minority. Just my point of view from a guy who is fairly new to prospecting, try not to get to heated in your response.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[pippinwhitepaws]

raised in arizona...where every mineral body is pre-claimed, by large and nasty multinational corporations, or the property owner never released the mineral or water rights when the property was sold.
i understand the problem you pose.

the weekend warriors who "claim" mining rights, or buy them on line...and never improve the claim, lose that claim after several years...one must improve the claim..this includes road surfaces, claim markers, safety features...environmental studies and restoration...
many of the people voicing the loudest complaints about claim jumpers, are in the group i just described...

so..if i do not see monuments defining the claim, if i can not find the monument with the "owners" bonfires...it is not a claim..and when the sheriff shows up...that is what he will tell the person making the complaints.

as for the gunslingers who threaten and boast...i spent my life listening to this garbage, going about my business, and have only been shot at in the superstitions...the one place no one has found gold...except for the storytellers dreamweaving.

take care...monuments for claims must be visible to the naked eye. if ya don't see it, it is not real.

 

[Seamuss]

Public land is open to prospectors. First come, first serve. There are public lands set aside for those people that found valuable minerals and did their homework and filed a claim for minerals on that land and they are the only ones that can claim those minerals on that claim. The 1872 mining law grants them the right to the minerals on that piece of land without the ownership of that land. Just the mineral rights.

So for a filing fee I can get a twenty acre claim on Seamuss Hill in the land of Leprechauns and get all the mineral rights to that claim. You can bring your whole family to the public section of property next to my claim and take the minerals away and so can Joe Smoe. Or, you can file a claim and get all the minerals yourself.

A claim is a right to something of value on public land. Like a forester can lay claim to the timber on the land. A licensed fisherman can catch their limit of fish.

 

[barber]

You can also camp on a claim, or coin shoot, as long as you're not getting any minerals. Claim owners only have rights to the minerals,

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

You can also camp on a claim, or coin shoot, as long as you're not getting any minerals. Claim owners only have rights to the minerals,

 

[Seamuss]

You can also camp on a claim, or coin shoot, as long as you're not getting any minerals. Claim owners only have rights to the minerals,

Exactly the point of a claim. You have all the rights to the minerals.

 

[Yellow Hammer]

I just spent 16 hours working on some of my claims because someone thought it would be cool to knock down the corner markers. I had to remove a stove and regraded the road in. Other than that we pulled over a oz of nuggets. I spend almost 120 hours a year improving my claims. As far as anyone that I find on my claims would be charged with trespassing and claim jumping. The La Paz county or Yuma county sheriff in Az has no problem coming out to take them to jail. You would have too prove that you were coin hunting. You need to remember that some owners will pull guns to protect there gold finds. I am not one of those owners thats the sheriff's job. But in the desert you would be an idiot not to have one. The best thing to do is join a club, the SPMA is a great club to join. Look for the white posts they should be no shorter than three feet tall. the newer claims will have a metal tag on the posts and some will have a glass jar.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

guns and gold...sheesh
while i sympathize with your vandalism issue...
jesus...stay out of the desert if you are so afraid you need a weapon...
an idiot? perhaps...but go look at my wrinkles...an i survived, and rarely carry a weapon...

 

[Yellow Hammer]

guns and gold...sheesh
while i sympathize with your vandalism issue...
jesus...stay out of the desert if you are so afraid you need a weapon...
an idiot? perhaps...but go look at my wrinkles...an i survived, and rarely carry a weapon...

Don't get me wrong the gun is full of snake shot. That is why I said idiot. I have already killed three the biggest was 4 ft long and hit my shin. This is why I have snake chaps and snake shot.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

i apologize...snake shot is acceptable...just so many people are afraid of nature...it appals me...

i'm afraid of urban areas...
i do understand the issues of mining in the southwest...
i have watched people play claim games...and they never even visited the mine...you are a rare one to actually mine the property.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

The rights of a claim owner is not quite what some think it is.

We have rights to the minerals, exclusively. We spend many hours and money to keep them current.

Yes, you can camp on my claim - but you may not be around the operating area. Some surface rights DO come with a mining claim.

If you metal detect - we, and the police, are going to assume you are hunting for gold.

The last person we encounter had over 2 ounces of gold from our claim - and that's one we caught.

We want nobody on our claim (digging) that we don't invite.

Many people think that if they knock down the markers, you are good to go for claim-jumping. We have put up monuments almost every year. PVC ones get cracked and knocked down, wooden ones are cut for camp fires, and metal ones have been run over, and even hooked to a truck and yanked out.

We take pictures (with dates on the photo) every year we replace them. We record and photograph every piece of work.

We also have hidden markers. Not for the claim jumper - but for us. We spent money on metal signs, with our numbers, and have had lots and lots shot up so bad you couldn't read them.

You should worry because it is your responsibility to know where you are, and if you are on a claim. If you do not have written permission, you could disappear.

We are responsible for this stuff, so idiots don't go getting hurt and for many other reasons.

Either stay off of people's claims, or get permission.

You get to see the nasty signs because claim holders are sick and tired of jerks stealing their gold, ruining tunnels and adits, bringing their friends to their "find" and throwing garbage all over the place.

It ticks a body off after awhile.

B

 

[Yellow Hammer]

The rights of a claim owner is not quite what some think it is.

We have rights to the minerals, exclusively. We spend many hours and money to keep them current.

Yes, you can camp on my claim - but you may not be around the operating area. Some surface rights DO come with a mining claim.

If you metal detect - we, and the police, are going to assume you are hunting for gold.

The last person we encounter had over 2 ounces of gold from our claim - and that's one we caught.

Well said thank you.

We want nobody on our claim (digging) that we don't invite.

Many people think that if they knock down the markers, you are good to go for claim-jumping. We have put up monuments almost every year. PVC ones get cracked and knocked down, wooden ones are cut for camp fires, and metal ones have been run over, and even hooked to a truck and yanked out.

We take pictures (with dates on the photo) every year we replace them. We record and photograph every piece of work.

We also have hidden markers. Not for the claim jumper - but for us. We spent money on metal signs, with our numbers, and have had lots and lots shot up so bad you couldn't read them.

You should worry because it is your responsibility to know where you are, and if you are on a claim. If you do not have written permission, you could disappear.

We are responsible for this stuff, so idiots don't go getting hurt and for many other reasons.

Either stay off of people's claims, or get permission.

You get to see the nasty signs because claim holders are sick and tired of jerks stealing their gold, ruining tunnels and adits, bringing their friends to their "find" and throwing garbage all over the place.

It ticks a body off after awhile.

B

Well said thank you.

 

[Yellow Hammer]

These are the tags you should see on claims.

 

[beaks]

LOL i check for claim stakes and then just ask the owner if he/she cares if i kick around for the day, most people will let you bum a day on their claim and will usually come along for a day of bar-b-q and panning and invite you back for the weekend as long as you arent a horses ass and you follow their rules.

Most of prospecting is about the fun and friendships, the gold is just an added perk.

 

[JDS]

LOL i check for claim stakes and then just ask the owner if he/she cares if i kick around for the day, most people will let you bum a day on their claim and will usually come along for a day of bar-b-q and panning and invite you back for the weekend as long as you arent a horses ass and you follow their rules.

Most of prospecting is about the fun and friendships, the gold is just an added perk.

Makes this sound pretty easy but I have been nugget shooting in AZ for the past 6 years and it ain't so. Many of the claim markers you can't read let alone dial them up from your cell phone. You need to do your research on the BLM web site or the LR2200. Some of the owners of the older claims just can't be reached. Claim jumping can get you in hot water with owners and clubs. Know where you are is the best advice. I use a ML4000 for nuggets but I use an e-trac to hunt around old foundatins. Most of the old ghost towns fall under somebody's claim so you still have to be carefull.

 

[beaks]

it is pretty easy as long as you do a little research and if you prospect on public lands the claim has to be clearly marked or there is not a hell of alot they can do legally except ask you to leave.(i find out if its claimed and if it is either ask the claimholder for permission or stay off the claim its pretty simple)

If the claim owner (on public lands)calls the police then he has to show proof of ownership and show visable markers or the law wont do anything.(private land is another complicated story)

I was prospecting on public land one time and an old man told me to leave because it was his claim so i did and when i got to my truck i called the real owner of the claim(i had already asked permission of the claimholder) and about a half hour later he showed up with the sheriff and he had the old man locked up
not because he was working the claim but because he didnt ask permission.

i dont blame anyone for getting a little crazy when someone jumps their claim (unless its not posted and thats the claimholders fault)because i would too.

those markers are the claimholders barbed wire and if they arent there then the claimholder needs to do his job and put some up for the protection of his rights.

as far as shooting at people goes, some people shoot back so its smarter to get the paperwork together and call the law.(none of this crap is worth a trip to the funeral home or life in prison and most people now carry a gun for protection)

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

There are very few times that we have not allowed someone to do a little digging on our claims when they have asked.

But, some people either don't care (they think 'public land' means they can do whatever they like, where ever they like), or take advantage (gave someone permission and then he returned with a bunch of people) and people who have walked right past us, ignoring us completely and going into an adit to start working, and someone who came up to us waving a gun, to someone who decided to claim OVER our claim and tried to throw us off our own claim).

You are right - people can certainly shoot back - assuming you don't aim well in the first place

If you know the township, range and section of the area, you can find out any claim - open or closed.

But, I still have to disagree with the posting. People will intentionally remove or damage posters, just for that excuse that it was "unmarked". And, the sheriffs know it, so the "its unmarked" doesn't hold up in court - especially if the claim holders make sure they have evidence that the monuments were indeed there (pictures etc.).

B

 

[beaks]

LMAO i dont like squatters or claim jumpers either but it is up to the claimholder to keep the claim in order which includes permits, epa compliance, markers and anything else the law requires.

if someone enters your unmarked diggings on public lands and gets hurt they can nail you for it unless you can prove they knew it was a regged claim when they entered the diggings.

get some steel pipe and weld the info to them, and then put them in deep with concrete.(something a 4 wheeler or truck cant pull up without breaking something)

if your claim was on private property you would have more rights under the law.

what makes me mad is the way people trash the property and leave it for us to clean up.

 

[Wild Boulder Bill]

This widom of no one should have the rights to file claims is picking up wind. The forest service is withdrawing the abilit to claim in area after area. Most of the western slope of the sangre de cristois withdrawn even though it is illegal. I spent three years tracing down a vein there and now can't claim it. The thing is once the goverment starts taking away rights they don't stop. Not only did they take away the right to claim they took away the right to hunt rocks. You have to have a 15.00 dollar permit to pick up ANY rock in the sangre de cristos. The reason the goverment granted claims was because it is good for the country. It is good to have iron for steel mills and aluminum and titanium and copper and oh yea barite and calcite and those things. The reward for a person spending time looking for these necassary items for our nation is he getys to claim it and henceforth financuil gain for himself.But remember every time you turn on the water that runs thru copper pipe or use that milk of magnesia or calcium fertilizer YOU WAS THE ONE THAT BENIFITED. ?The claimer got paid for his labor but you benifited. Don,t worry they are coming after your metal detectors already. Watch the next attack coming on hunters killing those precious creatures neccassary to the forest ecosystem. As for me I amnot paying to pick up rocks. I've been in colorado 51 years I vlounteered to fight forest fires(back in the days when they did that. I stayed throu thr flood and the alful snowy years inthe 60s I've had to work as much out of state as in state because of our stinkin economy and politicians. I discovered colorado before the california enviromentalists. I was wondering the back woods when nobody else was out there. I was here when colorado springs was a town o 40000. i'm not paying to pick up rocs period. You know under the strict interpretation of antiquies most archeologists consider all of you civil war detectors and all you arrowhead hunters criminals. Anyway thats a side track. It just amases me how many people are losing their rights and not caring about it until it.s them. My claim benifits you as much as it does me. And when I file they,ll put it on geocommunicator and all you guys can jump in your jeeps with your beer and your dogs and swarm over those hills like ants benifiting from waht I did.

 

[Seamuss]

We got what we voted for. Keeping the same Good Ole Boys in office makes them think they can regulate us back to the stone age.

What has your government official down for you to keep re-electing them.

Your deteriating rights brought to you by the extremist people that we elected into office, over and over again.