Cleaning Coins (my opinion)

[urbss]

Okay, let me first start by saying that I don't want to upset anybody. Maybe I'm being naive or stupid (or both). Regardless I would love to hear some other opinions on this topic because I really just don't get it.

I don't understand why cleaning coins is such a bad thing. I know that you can't clean them with sandpaper, that is just common sense. But why not clean them enough to make them look nicer?

Who makes up these rules and why do we have to follow them?? (btw - I feel the same way about "manners" - who is the person that decided on what proper etiquette should be. Someone originally made up these so-called rules and the rest of us just follow along - I don't buy into that) Sorry, I went on a little ramble there!!!

Anyway, I got some old coins off of my Grandmother. They were originally my Great Great Uncles and were then left to her when he died. I'm not about to sell them. I am thinking about cleaning them up, putting them in 2X2's and then putting them into a binder. I would like to eventually hand them to my son when he is older.

The point here is that I want to clean them first to make them all nice a shiny!!! I have not cleaned them yet - I wanted to post this first and get everyone's reaction before I do so. But, just to give you an idea, I did clean one of the coins (it has a hole in it anyway - so the value of the coin isn't really in question). But, before I cleaned it, I scanned a picture of it so you all could see the before and after image. I did not change these pictures in any way (besides cropping them down.)

I personally like the cleaned up coin much better than the coin I had before I cleaned it.

What do the rest of you think??

Thanks in advance for any of your thoughts and comments!!!!

Tom (Urbs)

 

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[Sandman]

The people that collect coins are the ones that prefer the uncleaned coin to a cleaned one an will pay more for the "dirty one." Since you are not ever going to sell the coins and give them to your son you have to think about if he might want to sell them later after your gone.

My coins I collect I know I won't sell so I "clean" them up for display. If some snob sees them and is horrified, that's to bad.

Just the way I'd do it.
Sandman

 

[Postalrevnant]

I think its pretty simple. If its your coins then you get to do whatever you want with them. Doesn't matter what someone else thinks.

Rev

 

[JDSCOIN]

Hello, I thought that I would go through what you said and answer.

"Okay, let me first start by saying that I don't want to upset anybody. Maybe I'm being naive or stupid (or both). Regardless I would love to hear some other opinions on this topic because I really just don't get it."

No problem. Like any subject, people have to understand the reason/s why certain 'rules' develop or are put into place or practice. This "rule" to me, is something akin to telling kids not to play with matches. When you are older and more careful, you understand why you don't sit around flicking lit matches around at things. But until you understand why people tell you these things, you don't really understand it.

Most people do not realize how complex coin-collecting can be. One of the reasons is because they do not realize several things about coin-collecting until they have been in the hobby for a few years. There are many aspects to it. If you stop to think of just WHY it is that people collect coins, then the rest of this may begin to make sense.

"I don't understand why cleaning coins is such a bad thing. I know that you can't clean them with sandpaper, that is just common sense. But why not clean them enough to make them look nicer?"

I think that it depends upon a number of factors. One of those might be that it depends upon the coin that you want to clean and/or the way in which you may clean it. But I will tell you this much, the "general rule" that you hear coin-collectors tell those who are just starting off in the hobby about "not cleaning coins" applies to them as NOVICES particularly.

And the reason/s are pretty good ones. Firstly, one should understand that what we are dealing with in coin-collecting are items which were produced in limited quantities and which are for the most part, no longer being made. The concern then, is in terms of the potential for causing damage to what may potentially be a rare commodity. As coin-collectors, we have at one time or another, usually heard of a nice coin or coins which were destroyed or damaged in terms of numismatic value/worth by an amateur who thought that they were doing something either good or harmless to a coin.

One such story that I heard was that of a pair of young men who had some gold coins and who took them to a coin shop to sell them. When they were told by the shop owner that they would have been worth more if they were in better condition, they had the bright idea of taking them home and "shining them up" on a buffing wheel (as if the coin shop owner or anyone else could not have done the very same thing). Well, when they returned to the shop to sell them (hoping to get MORE for the now 'shiny' coins), they were told that they had ruined the numismatic value (collectible value) of the coins and that they were now worth only the metal that they were made of. Does that makes sense to you?

"Who makes up these rules and why do we have to follow them?? (btw - I feel the same way about "manners" - who is the person that decided on what proper etiquette should be. Someone originally made up these so-called rules and the rest of us just follow along - I don't buy into that) Sorry, I went on a little ramble there!!!"

Such "rules" are those which people have learned to share with those who might damage or destroy an otherwise valuable coin, knowing that some coins simply cannot be replaced, and therefore, will no longer be available in the coin market either in the grade that it was once in or as a collectible coin (numismatically speaking). Like the saying, "better safe, than sorry." You learn a LOT of things in coin-collecting through the years of experience that you gain either first-hand or from the mistakes of others.

"Anyway, I got some old coins off of my Grandmother. They were originally my Great Great Uncles and were then left to her when he died. I'm not about to sell them. I am thinking about cleaning them up, putting them in 2X2's and then putting them into a binder. I would like to eventually hand them to my son when he is older."

Secondly, I'd like to say that it depends upon the coin/s. It does no harm to clean a coin which has no numismatic value or rarity to it and which probably will never be collected by anyone. The 'rule' of not cleaning coins is generally given to and by those who collect U.S. coins. If you are collecting ancient coins, that is another story. Many ancient coins require cleaning; but that is also a more specialized field of coin-collecting.

"The point here is that I want to clean them first to make them all nice a shiny!!! I have not cleaned them yet - I wanted to post this first and get everyone's reaction before I do so. But, just to give you an idea, I did clean one of the coins (it has a hole in it anyway - so the value of the coin isn't really in question). But, before I cleaned it, I scanned a picture of it so you all could see the before and after image. I did not change these pictures in any way (besides cropping them down.)"

You have got the right idea in cleaning a coin which has little numismatic value. However, if you plan on leaving coins as a collection which you expect to have any numismatic value for your son, you may want to reconsider 'cleaning' them. That is because cleaning U.S. coins generally reduces their value, sometimes dramatically. Why? Any number of reasons, reasons which I have not seen anyone state to you hear as yet. One of those is the TONE of collectible coins. Toning and color of coins is sometimes one of the ways that people determine the value of a coin numismatically.

Have you ever heard the term, "original mint luster?" Or have you ever heard of "cartwheels" on Morgan silver dollars? Collectors pay more for better examples of collectible coins. The more that they are in their original and/or natural state, the better. Cleaning can do more damage to coins than one may realize at first. Not just in how they may look, but also in how they may hold up condition-wise in the future. Sometimes, chemicals can remain on cleaned coins which will continue to eat away at the metal or the original patina is often lost, and/or innate natural coating/s may be taken off leaving coins to oxidize and corrode. There are many things which can go wrong with coins which have been cleaned. That having been said, I'll go on to another thing which I should mention here as well.

"I personally like the cleaned up coin much better than the coin I had before I cleaned it. What do the rest of you think?? Thanks in advance for any of your thoughts and comments!!!!"

I think that all of us here can relate to how nice and new a cleaned coin may look. But no matter how we may want to think of a cleaned coin as "nice looking," as if it were a new coin; the reality is that a cleaned coin is NOT the same as a new coin. What was the other thing that I wanted to mention here? Though there is a general rule about not cleaning coins, that generally applies to those who are new to coin-collecting and who do not realize the damage that they can do to a collectible coin by doing so. However, that is not to say that no one who is a seasoned coin-collector EVER cleans a coin.

Once people have collected coins for a long time and know what they are doing, they may learn the correct ways to "clean coins" and do so. That is called cleaning coins "professionally." There is a difference between professionals and amateurs. And that, to be truthful with you, is what we are really talking about here. Even people who think that they know how to clean a coin professionally, in reality may not know how or when they might be better off leaving a coin alone. All of this takes time to learn and that comes only with experience.

I hope that my words have helped you to better understand this subject from the point of view of the seasoned coin-collector.

Best wishes,

JDSCOIN

 

[urbss]

Thanks for all the feedback!!

And, JDScoin - wow, that is much more information than I could have expected anybody to give. You obviously spent some time on your reply and I want you to know that I really appreciate it.

After reading everything, I've come to the conclusion that I am not going to clean the coins. One of the main reasons for this is because of when JD said:

Sometimes, chemicals can remain on cleaned coins which will continue to eat away at the metal or the original patina is often lost, and/or innate natural coating/s may be taken off leaving coins to oxidize and corrode.

I never would have thought of that!! Actually, many of the things mentioned really made me think.

So, again I really appreciate all of you experts out there.

Thanks again,
Tom (Urbs)

 

[JDSCOIN]

Hello Tom,

Glad to help. You know, you had stated your concerns very well and because you had made your thoughts clear, that made it easy for me to think of the best reply to your statements. You were not rambling, you were saying what was on your mind - and that helped me to know just what to say in response.

I had really thought that there would have been others who would have come in and said something regarding the subject of cleaning coins as well. Perhaps they still will. I purposely left off saying a few more things that I might have said, hoping that someone else would step in here also.

As I had mentioned before, you will probably recall seeing or hearing certain terms in numismatics which refer to a coin's tone. I had mentioned some of those, but there are many once you become more familiar with the hobby. And these have become rather important and 'standard' terms.

There are people, for instance, who collect coins with certain tones on them. I know people who have put together collections of silver dollars (and other coins) which have 'rainbow' toning. There is a term for a certain kind of tone which is known as 'sunset' toning. And of course, you may be familiar with the term for certain high grade U.S. cents which are called 'red' (in tone).

The purpose for mentioning all of this is not to beat a dead horse into the ground, but to bring up things which are important to consider regarding the subject of this aspect of coin-collecting; which YOU were good enough to bring up. I hope that what has been discussed here can help others who also may have wondered about cleaning coins.

Have a great Thanksgiving and Happy Holidays!

JDSCOIN

 

[Jeffro]

Common stuff I wouldn't worry about too much, but any real rarity- here is how I look at it. I am not the "owner" per se, rather I am just holding it temporarily. Someone else held it before me, and (hopefully) many more will hold it after me.

We are more like guardians than owners. I have a responsibility to see that future generations see my coin in as close to original shape as possible. I won't do anything to a coin that will impair its surface or toning in any way. Sweat, grime and muck I try and find the best way to remove without using chemicals that would harm it.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Excellent way of seeing things, Jeffro.

I agree.

 

[cptango]

If a coin has mud or other solids on it can it be rinsed off with running plain tap water without "hurting" it?

Best Regards

Charles

 

[Jeffro]

Yes, just be careful if you use anything (like a toothbrush) to try and loosen the stuff up. Particles can get caught in the brushes and scratch the coin. Again, this is just for anything of value. I use cotton swabs and "roll" them across the surface rather than scrubbing.

Anyone ever had any luck with ultrasonic cleaners?

 

[mrsgolddigger]

I think that it is the individuals choice - to clean them or not. I like your clean coin better too. Can you tell me how you clean it.. I started cleaning a bunch of coins I found at the beach and they are all black and stuck together now, I soaked them overnite in bleach/water. What a mess, now they are even greener than before I started and they are sticky. Please help, someone.. Thanks

 

[hollowpointred]

i dont know, i like coins to have a patina. i think it gives them a character when they look like they have been in the hands of people for 80,90,100 years! its almost like washing the history from them when you clean them, at least to me. thats only my opinion though.

 

[Hardy]

I like to cleaned mine with a solution that wont hurt any of the patina yet remove
the crud that comes with being in the ground for 100 plus years, as long as it looks good for display. WHO CARES

 

[Jeffro]

I think that it is the individuals choice - to clean them or not. I like your clean coin better too. Can you tell me how you clean it.. I started cleaning a bunch of coins I found at the beach and they are all black and stuck together now, I soaked them overnite in bleach/water. What a mess, now they are even greener than before I started and they are sticky. Please help, someone.. Thanks

No matter what you try, always seperate the clad from the copper. With beach coins, probably a tumbler would work best? They get some awful crud on them that I don't think will come off otherwise.

 

[Old Tom]

I agree with a loot that has been said. In general a novice should not clean coins.
As far as who says you should not to me is the ANA - American numismatic association.\
They were the first one to officially grade coins. Grading is not a exact science.

The ANA will not put a grade on a coin that has been cleaned. Cleaning not only can leaves traces
of harsh cleaning chemicals it also leaves many microscopic scratches on the coin. Most grading companies use microscopes to grade some coins. Collectors believe that if you are going to spend good money for a coin then the best condition with no or only natural wear is more desirable.

Now this has nothing to do with new/clad coins, clean them anyway you want and spend them. Even common older coins, like a 1964 silver dime .. go ahead and clean it .. it will not be worth more than the silver content.

A novice coin collector is told not to clean coins because most don't take the time to learn about each coin. Knowing how to grade each type of coin and the value based on that grade. Learn about mint marks and errors each coin might have.

I have seen a rare coin damaged by a novice. I guy brought a 1916 D mercury dime into a coin/metal detector store I was at in Virginia. It was given to him after his grand father passed away. It was a uncirculated coin until he took it out of it's holder, saw that he got a finger print on it .. ended up wiping the coin on his shirt making many light scratches. The coin went from a $8,000 coin to a $2000 coin in just a moment.

I saw another time one of our group dug a 1800 half dime a older man in our group (novice) asked to see it.
He ended up trying to rub some dirt off with his thumb again scratching the coin taking hundreds of dollars off the coin.

Just my thoughts ...Tom

 

[waseeker]

I wound up with about 100 beach coins from a recent trip that were extremely corroded. I used a hammer on them to get rid of some of the crud. Then I bought a cheapo rock tumbler from a craft store. Put in the coins, some aquarium gravel, water and vinegar and let them go for a couple of hours. That worked pretty well and about 3/4 of them got clean. The rest are so pitted and corroded I wouldn't even leave them in a penny jar at the convenience store

As to the original topic of cleaning coins. Collectors of Mint State coins generally prefer their coins to be in "original" condition. For some that means original mint luster. For other it may mean the rainbow toning referred to earlier. Cleaning such a coin can substantially reduce it's market value. The cleaning process can leave spots or cause other damage that may not be immediately apparent. Even water can leave spots if the coin is not dried after washing, but is instead left to air dry.

For circulated coins I personally don't like them to be cleaned. To me they just look unnatural to be so clean yet they are obviously worn. That doesn't mean I won't and/or haven't cleaned coins, but it is just my personal preference.