Real of Tayopa
Bronze Member
I am curios, has anyone figured out to whom that large screen up on that ledge that I mentioned belongs to ? /
I am curios, has anyone figured out to whom that large screen up on that ledge that I mentioned belongs to ? /
Chuck:
As I recall, the actual clue was about "maybe" needing a rope to climb down to or into a pit mine, rather than to a pool of water.
"Tanks" mentioned in the list of clues include a tank where Waltz would water his animals and a series of three tanks, each one higher than the previous one, somewhere along his route to the mine and not far from it. There may be more which I don't remember at this time.
At least some of the clues may be related to other mines, however. And don't forget Waltz also claimed to have covered the pit with layers of ironwood logs, topped by a couple of feet of rock and dirt, so that it couldn't be recognized as a mine. I think it's been pretty much proven, with more than enough documentation, that the Silver Chief "pit mine" was a surface deposit first discovered, claimed, and mined well after Waltz found and worked his LDM. That it and the other mines on the ridge were being discussed, worked and written about in newspapers and mining journals while JW was still alive and living in Phoenix IMO, is proof enough that the two mines are not even in the same area, let alone one and the same.
wayne...i think you are making a big mistake by basing your research on what waltz said....nobody really knows what waltz said...Hi Jim:
The two biggest flags IMO, are related to the description of the ore deposits of the mines on that ridge. It runs contrary to what makes up the very foundation of the legend of Waltz's "lost" mine as the richest gold deposit he had ever seen. That he also made no mention of silver ore with regard to the mine, and near as I can tell, still considered his mine as something that could be passed on in the days before he died, tells me that he had no concerns about the mines within the Rogers District, or any of the deposits for that matter, which were being discovered and worked at the southern end of the range prior to his passing.
wayne...i think you are making a big mistake by basing your research on what waltz said....nobody really knows what waltz said...
another problem i see is "the reports of the day"..nobody really knows what came out of that or any other mine..you'd know this if you had ever been to the blm office and checked out the folder on a mine...everything in that report was written by the mine owner...who is to say if he was honest...there are plenty of reasons to put false info in a reportDave:
I never base my research....or efforts in the field.... only on what he or she said about something. Regardless of who said so.
And I have found that sometimes what he or she didn't say is more important anyway.
One thought I'd like to make clear though, is that if the LDM was nothing more than a silver deposit with pockets of gold ore, as the reports of the day described the Silver Chief "pit mine", then it was undeserving of it's legendary status as a rich OR "lost" gold mine, since the "pit mine" was clearly neither of those things. And therefore, those individuals who relocated it, and spent years digging it out, really don't have much to brag about IMO. That said, I certainly won't be basing my own research into the subject on what they or their messengers have had to say about it.
To do so I believe, WOULD be, as you say..... a big mistake.
another problem i see is "the reports of the day"..nobody really knows what came out of that or any other mine..you'd know this if you had ever been to the blm office and checked out the folder on a mine...everything in that report was written by the mine owner...who is to say if he was honest...there are plenty of reasons to put false info in a report
all i'm saying is most mines past and present are operated to draw in investors..a few are legit but most weren't and aren't.. geological reports and assays are faked to sucker in high dollar money men...if you are going to hunt lost mines you should educate yourself on mining...save time and disappointment in the field...as far as ted cox goes...i never met the man so i can't vouch for him..but i tend to believe what he wrote.i wont go into it here why i do..if you choose not to that's your prerogativeAlthough by "reports of the day" I also include newspapers etc., I understand what you are saying.
Would that include the tales of Ted Cox and those who belonged to the group who re-opened the mine and, along with a couple of authors we know, have more recently tried to convince others that it was the LDM ?
I would think it does.
Hi Jim:
The two biggest flags IMO, are related to the description of the ore deposits of the mines on that ridge. It runs contrary to what makes up the very foundation of the legend of Waltz's "lost" mine as the richest gold deposit he had ever seen. That he also made no mention of silver ore with regard to the mine, and near as I can tell, still considered his mine as something that could be passed on in the days before he died, tells me that he had no concerns about the mines within the Rogers District, or any of the deposits for that matter, which were being discovered and worked at the southern end of the range prior to his passing.
all i'm saying is most mines past and present are operated to draw in investors..a few are legit but most weren't and aren't.. geological reports and assays are faked to sucker in high dollar money men...if you are going to hunt lost mines you should educate yourself on mining...save time and disappointment in the field...as far as ted cox goes...i never met the man so i can't vouch for him..but i tend to believe what he wrote.i wont go into it here why i do..if you choose not to that's your prerogative
wayne...i think you are making a big mistake by basing your research on what waltz said....nobody really knows what waltz said...
jim....i'd say cox was like alot of people..most of what he said was true with a little embellishment to spice it upDave,
I've done a little researching on Ted Cox's stories...not all of them, but quite a few...I picked out random things that would be easy to verify, or disprove...while Cox seemed ready to embellish, every single thing I researched turned out to be true, or based on truth...there were even some things I thought were patently untrue on the surface, but after digging into it, I guess I learned a thing or two
Cox also had an understanding of what was happening with the Pit Mine in the early 1900's, and why everyone was so "close-lipped" about it...he didn't come out and say it, but anyone from around there will pick up on what he was saying and what it meant...take care, Jim
deducer...i'd say the reason nobody mentioned silver is because is wasn't worth squat back then....the same is true now as back then...the small miner isn't concerned with silver because it isn't profitable for him to mine...gold..on the other hand is...this goes back to what i said before...if you are going to hunt lost mines...you should have a good background in miningThat the Holmes and Petrasch camps became bitter enemies is, IMO, a boon to LDM researchers because you knew neither would never conspire with the other to mislead or deceive, so anything both camps agreed upon had to be the truth. Neither camp made mention of silver, but both camps agreed on the "legendary richness of the gold."
I think that you accomplish a lot more as a researcher when you understand and accept that deception is the norm, rather than the exception. Once you accept that, you start to develop a methodology for eliminating misdirection, deception, and outright lies.
Don't underestimate the value of field research. It can be very potent.
deducer...i'd say the reason nobody mentioned silver is because is wasn't worth squat back then....the same is true now as back then...the small miner isn't concerned with silver because it isn't profitable for him to mine...gold..on the other hand is...this goes back to what i said before...if you are going to hunt lost mines...you should have a good background in mining