Counterfeit 8 reale and a silver face: are these old?

[Rustic]

Began hunting in a new place last night, in the far corner of a big field nearby. It hasn't been planted yet so I wanted to check it out before the farmer got to it... Found the usual tractor bits, a few pulltabs, 3 heavy, old, wrought iron stakes, two musket balls.

Then got a good signal and when I flipped the plug saw this fantastical sight:


I had no idea what it was but I didn't want to rub it, but when I picked it up I said to my sister "The edge of it makes me think pewter", because the edge was corroded and black like an old pewter button.

Got it home and just rinsed it off as best I could-- what a mess, but I can make out Carolus III, and I can just make out 176_ for a date.


I then weighed it and the coin is much too light to be a real reale. But I still love it. But is it an old counterfeit? How do you tell? Which brings me to the silver item I found this afternoon at the same place:


It rang up as 82-84 at the 11.6 frequency on my machine and it was about 6 inches down. When I got it home I tested it with my silver test and it is silver. But I'd just love to know if it's old or modern, and I'm hoping you guys might know what it is and have an idea of its age...

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

 

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[CRUSADER]

Thank you for all the information and advice. I gently washed it today to get the dirt off, but I did not find any hallmark that I could see.

I did a bit more research on the Internet and found a photo of a brass grotesque that is somewhat reminiscent of the one I found:
View attachment 1455403 View attachment 1455406
The brass grotesque is from an 18th century flintlock pistol. Notice how it's face is inset into a larger butt cap.

Also, this photo shows how an attachment blade was used to mount the grotesque face:
View attachment 1455410

The informative web page of Jefferson Patterson Park & MuseumJefferson Patterson Park and Museum - State Museum of Archaeology states,

"The butt cap shank measures 1 ½ inches in length, with the face no more than one inch in diameter. It is believed that this is just one piece of the larger butt cap that would have fit on the end of an English or French made flintlock pistol..."

I believe the piece I found would fit into just such a larger setting...

Just want to say thanks again to everyone for your help, and advice, it's unlikely I would have figured out what it was without you. Happy hunting to all

Good research because the small size bothered me. I'm 99% convinced now.
I wasn't expecting a hallmark because I think its heavily silver plated with a copper core.
It has my vote.

 

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[CMDiamonddawg]

yes , two cool finds !
%%%% that butt end is one grotty, spooky mug %%%% schedule a quick return to that site .......

 

[Steve in PA]

That pistol grotesque is really cool. Never saw one of those before.

 

[Scrappy]

Bump it up. I've been looking at that butt cap grotesque every day since you've posted and I don't know why I've waited so long to vote for banner.

I'll be casting my vote.

 

[Gridwalker306]

Bump it up. I've been looking at that butt cap grotesque every day since you've posted and I don't know why I've waited so long to vote for banner.

I'll be casting my vote.

Yep, it belongs up top for sure. I've looked at it every day as well.

 

[Patriot Relics]

I'll pile on, that little silver is killer- votes in

 

[terpfan]

That pistol grotesque is a terrific piece, a beautiful piece of art. I've enjoyed this thread and I'd never even heard of this item before. Another vote cast.

 

[Rustic]

yes , two cool finds !
%%%% that butt end is one grotty, spooky mug %%%% schedule a quick return to that site .......

As a matter of fact I did return to the site the next day, but the farmer was there with his big tractors and tank-trucks filled with God knows what chemicals, so now I'll have to wait a couple days until they're done, then I'll go back and detect along the edges until fall after the harvest. Then I'll grid the whole thing with my sister...

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

Amazing finds! Love the counterfeit