CZ-21 help

[Jup51]

Im new to metal-detecting, and I just bought a CZ21, bc my friends (who md often) recommended it to me.
Im having trouble to ground balance it, any help?
I live on the beach, so what should I put my sensitivity, ground, discrimination at?
Also, sometimes, on one stride the detector signals, yet on the second stride it doesn't signal. On one direction it does, while another it does not.
Thank you for the help,
Anton

 

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[Sandman]

I don't have a CZ-21 but have the older CZ-20. The guts and controls are the same as only the battery door and pinpoint button are changed.

You ground balance in AUTOTUNE mode by raising the coil and lowering it while listening to the tone. If it raises, turn the gb knob one way or the other till you get it about even tone up as well as down. If it goes quieter, turn it the other way a might till you have a slight tone. As for settings, the presets are fine to start. I run volume at 4 usually unless I am certain some targets are deeper. Disc I mainly run in Autotune but will sometimes hunt with a setting of 0 which gives you three different tones. A setting of 1 will not respond to small iron like hairpins but still respond to gold rings and coins and only give you the Mid and High tones. Autotune is only one tone and is all metal. A nice feature of the CZ21 is the (over blast) if the target is large or very shallow. I carry mine on the Fisher neck mount strap when not diving because the water resistance is less when it isn't on the handle.

When you get a signal one way and not the other it usually means because of the targets orentation in the ground is stronger one way and not the other. Most guys tell you it will be junk, but its not and since your in sand you should scoop it. I never use the pinpoint button.

If you really want to freak you buddies out, only dig the MID tones which are pull tabs and gold rings since you won't be wasting your time digging pennies and coins. You'll have more rings at the end of the day and lots of pull tabs.

 

[gleaner1]

Dont sweat the gb, it's easy. Dealing with the iron will put you down, especially if you are new to the game, but don't give up. I personally do not recommend a cz to a beginner.

If you are turfing it, use the pp, it detunes beautifully and you should find the target in the tip of the plug most of the time. Prepare to put two or three good seasons in before this all comes together. I agree with Sandman, not much sense in using pinpoint in the drink, just scoop it all out.

 

[littlebill31]

Sandman,
What are you referring too when you say the CZ-21 is less water water resistant when not on the handle?
Thanks

 

[Sandman]

Sandman,
What are you referring too when you say the CZ-21 is less water water resistant when not on the handle?
Thanks

When it is mounted on the handle above the shaft it makes the detector heavier when above water and you are pushing the water when you sweep it side to side when wading. When the box is hanging from your neck or hip mounted you only have the water resistance of the shaft and coil during a sweep.

 

[Streak!]

if your picking up the occasional false, expecially one that favors one side only................your likely picking up your scoop or something. dont hold your scoop at your side. carry it on your shoulder. hold the coil out farther from you and see if the falsing doent stop.
You CAN hunt in auto tune if you want to dig everything, (like those lovely bobby pins) but I prefer 1. I leave autotune for places that are hard hunted......and the pickings are slim.
run your sens as high as you can and not get too much falsing. It WILL make a difference in depth.

Im new to metal-detecting, and I just bought a CZ21, bc my friends (who md often) recommended it to me.
Im having trouble to ground balance it, any help?
I live on the beach, so what should I put my sensitivity, ground, discrimination at?
Also, sometimes, on one stride the detector signals, yet on the second stride it doesn't signal. On one direction it does, while another it does not.
Thank you for the help,
Anton

 

[gleaner1]

the cz does not false.

 

[Lowbatts]

the cz does not false.

Yeah, but it's easier to describe it that way.

 

[Streak!]

you must have one of those "super" Cz's then. I've used a CZ20 and then CZ21 for YEARS.....and both mine falsed a lot in salt water.
hunt a salt beach in the ankle wash and see is you dont get falses. Unless I'm mistaken........................a "false" is a signal when there is no target under your coil. Sure, you can argue that the salt is the target. but in practical terms....it's a false. In fact....thats exactly WHY I no longer use a CZ at a salt beach anymore. The Infinium is far superior in a salt enviroment. DEAD steady...........DEEP...and rock solid. In fresh water I might agree with you. But at a salt beach..the Cz's do indeed "false".

the cz does not false.

 

[gleaner1]

you must have one of those "super" Cz's then. I've used a CZ20 and then CZ21 for YEARS.....and both mine falsed a lot in salt water.
hunt a salt beach in the ankle wash and see is you dont get falses. Unless I'm mistaken........................a "false" is a signal when there is no target under your coil. Sure, you can argue that the salt is the target. but in practical terms....it's a false. In fact....thats exactly WHY I no longer use a CZ at a salt beach anymore. The Infinium is far superior in a salt enviroment. DEAD steady...........DEEP...and rock solid. In fresh water I might agree with you. But at a salt beach..the Cz's do indeed "false".

the cz does not false.

For people "in the know", and especially for people that know the cz and can "set it up" correctly, salt or whatever, I commit that in fact the poor beast never "falses". This is an outrage, and is only an all too common term given to a machines not "set up" correctly to the surroundings. That's as simple as it gets. "Falsing" is just a horrible falsehood. No falsing in the cz seen ever.

 

[gleaner1]

If you are in the hot rocks or salt or black sand or similar, and if the sense is too high and the gb is not good, you will get "false" signals.
And the cz20 is a salt machine. Wow. But at the end of the day, the signals were in fact not false. You see? The signals were in fact real, not false. Real signals from real targets. They are real signals from real targets, not falsing. Salt is a real target. Real salt. Real hot rocks, real nails. Real signals. Real targets. Really. No, really. Salt not withstanding. The cz20 is a killer land machine mind you. But it notoriously falses on iron. Which is to say that if there is iron in the ground, it falses on it. Which is to say that the iron signal is false. Which is to imply that the iron nail is false, but this is false, because the rusty iron nail is real, not false. Which is to say the ground is loaded with falsing. Falsing signals. Real falsing signals. From real iron crap that gives real false signals no matter how carefully you set your settings. The cz20/21 is not easy. Good luck!

 

[Lowbatts]

If you are in the hot rocks or salt or black sand or similar, and if the sense is too high and the gb is not good, you will get "false" signals.
And the cz20 is a salt machine. Wow. But at the end of the day, the signals were in fact not false. You see? The signals were in fact real, not false. Real signals from real targets. They are real signals from real targets, not falsing. Salt is a real target. Real salt. Real hot rocks, real nails. Real signals. Real targets. Really. No, really. Salt not withstanding. The cz20 is a killer land machine mind you. But it notoriously falses on iron. Which is to say that if there is iron in the ground, it falses on it. Which is to say that the iron signal is false. Which is to imply that the iron nail is false, but this is false, because the rusty iron nail is real, not false. Which is to say the ground is loaded with falsing. Falsing signals. Real falsing signals. From real iron crap that gives real false signals no matter how carefully you set your settings. The cz20/21 is not easy. Good luck!

The CZ series in general is one of the easiest designs to understand, operationally. Have loved using mine on those cinder and ash-laden sidewalk beds. More than a couple silver dimes, sitting on edge, down 4" or more have falsely read foil, square tab or round tab on my CZ20/21 hybrid. If I get a good repeatable signal that has a properly situated pinpoint, then it's dig time. One 1862 IH in awesome good shape read only square tab on my CZ5. It read in the low 40's on my F70. It was 1" deep in cinder and iron slag mix. But the good targets always give a good pinpoint, even when they ID falsely.

Pointed out to a newbie who was using my CZ5 the other day how to determine that the great sounding signal about 8" down was a nail, about 3" long, bent about 30 degrees approximately 1" down from the head and with some seriously oxidized mass at the bend (probably fire damage).

If you lift the coil to the point where the target is barely discernable you can pretty much trace it's shape under the coil. If you're used to using certain other high end machines then pinpoint is merely a hopeful indicator of where the target is. The CZ series is soooo good with the pinpoint function falsing is never a problem in my hunts.

I wish the F70 had the same capabilities as the CZ series in pinpoint mode. Don't get me wrong, the F series pinpoints targets in awesome good fashion, but not with the additional tightness that the CZ has once you've learned your coil and the matrix you're swinging it over.

 

[Streak!]

your obviously inferring that I do not know what i'm doing. GREAT call!
I only have 40 years in the hobby....have used pretty much every machine on the planet, currently field test, and have field tested in the past for a number of manufacturers. They obviously (the manufacturers) have misplaced their trust in me, and my technical/evaluation abilities. I'll call em right up and point out the error of their ways. Your right! How in the heck could I ever know how to set ANY machine up? I defer to your wisdom and boundless experience.
PS: If you run the machine on the edge........for maximum performance......................you do indeed get salt falsing. I CAN set it up to be dead quiet (the operative word here is "DEAD"), but then I sacrifice performance. Dont confuse the random non repeatable false..........with a signal response from an undesireable target.

you must have one of those "super" Cz's then. I've used a CZ20 and then CZ21 for YEARS.....and both mine falsed a lot in salt water.
hunt a salt beach in the ankle wash and see is you dont get falses. Unless I'm mistaken........................a "false" is a signal when there is no target under your coil. Sure, you can argue that the salt is the target. but in practical terms....it's a false. In fact....thats exactly WHY I no longer use a CZ at a salt beach anymore. The Infinium is far superior in a salt enviroment. DEAD steady...........DEEP...and rock solid. In fresh water I might agree with you. But at a salt beach..the Cz's do indeed "false".

the cz does not false.

For people "in the know", and especially for people that know the cz and can "set it up" correctly, salt or whatever, I commit that in fact the poor beast never "falses". This is an outrage, and is only an all too common term given to a machines not "set up" correctly to the surroundings. That's as simple as it gets. "Falsing" is just a horrible falsehood. No falsing in the cz seen ever.

 

[gleaner1]

Streak, no offense intended, I am a big dumbass. I meant not to offend you or any member. The CZ-20 is a royal son-of-a-bitch to learn because it is highly sensitive and it is very prone to falsing, and it doesn't even come with a dd coil, go figure. So it sucks as a beginner machine. Jup51, you will get used to that falsing sooner or later.

 

[gleaner1]

Jup51, these babies pop high pitch on rusty iron crap and it will take some getting used to. Use low sense levels at first, get a decent gb and use autotune. Gb can be a bit off in fresh water and mild soils and will not effect the depth. You will soon learn to get dead-on gb in autotune by bobbing the coil. Autotune is awesome, you will not be distracted by scrim-mode-induced high-pitch audio pops from iron, and it is more stable in the iron and cinders. A quick click of the switch from autotune to iron and you can hear the low/med/high pitch, thus getting a decent idea of the target type. This machine (as most) offers excellent depth indication by the loudness of the signals, go for the deep soft targets in autotune, its the only way to go. This will take some time.

In scrim mode, even if you are running max scrim and low sense, iron will pop high pitch at first, it "falses". This is the thing you must get used to when learning the damn thing. The manual says to get a good accurate pp of the target for the best audio scrim and this is true, especially on iron. Iron will pop high pitch and dance around the mid range and back to low and up to high and all over if you are off to the side of the target. If the target gives any amount of low tone response with good investigation, it is 99.99% of the time rust. Having said all this, you will learn to deal with the iron and it will not bother you after a while. Use autotune and go for the deeper hits. Flip to iron and dig the deepies when you hear the good solid mid or high pitch response.

 

[therover]

Jup51,

I have been using CZ's as my main VLF units for salt water beach hunting since they first came out. I still have my original CZ20 and it works just as well the day I bought it.

CZ's will false for several reasons.

1) Running the sensitivity too high
2) Swing too fast ( they are slow sweep units)
3) Ground balance not set properly...but on a lot of beaches, you can run at 5 and be just fine

I suggest if you are having a hard time ground balancing, don't sweat it at first. Set it at 5 and move on. Make sure your sensitivity is set at 2...3 max to start ( assuming you are running in discriminate mode. If running in autotune ie. all metal, the sensitivity has to be turned up in the 8-10 range so you can hear the faint threshold warble. It is not a true threshold like Whites or Minelab units. The CZ by and large is a silent search unit, but you can run in semi-threshold mode in autotune with the sensitivity at 9-10 listening to the warble).

I say run in discriminate mode to start off...and at level 0. This is most important. DO NOT discriminate anything when beach hunting. Running in 0 mode will also allow you to learn the machine and it's nuances. One of the major ones is, when hitting on deep targets. When a CZ hits on a deep, non-ferrous target, it may hit as a low tone on some sweeps. Use the modulated audio feature ( that is, run at volume 5 or less) and the deep targets will sound fainter than the shallow ones. This will give you an idea that a deepie, even if hitting low tone every so often, with a mid or high tone hit as well, should be dug.

Running in 0 will also allow you to hear deep iron that may high tone/low tone bounce. If you run at discriminate level 1 or higher, you will not hear the low tone of the high tone/low tone bounce and only the high tone, think it's a good target, and dig up a nail. I can't tell you the number of nails and iron I dug running at level 1 or 2, because I only heard the high tone. When I finally realized that running in 0 is by far the best way to run, the shallow and mid level iron targets where no longer dug. You WILL dig deep iron and some other forms of iron with a CZ...as you will with most all other detectors on the beach. Bottom line is, on a salt water beach, some gold jewelry WILL be in the iron range. Depends on the conditions and the make up of the gold jewelry.

Main thing is to have fun and don't sweat the small stuff. Set the unit up so it is STABLE...do not go for max depth settings when first starting out. You will get discouraged easily that way. Take it slow, sweep slow, sweep the target from multiple angles, and when you get a good, REPEATABLE mid or high tone hit when sweeping from multiple angles...DIG IT. Any repeatable low tone, when starting out, or if there are more low tones than high or mid tones when there is a mixture of tones....move on.

The ONLY time you should even consider using discriminate level 1 or higher on the beach, is when there is SO much small iron, that every sweep you hear a low tone.

Last thing...hopefully you have a CZ21 with the 8 inch coil. Much easier to sweep, pin point and separate targets. And it still gets great depth on it. I have the 10.5 inch on my CZ20, but I use my CZ6a's more with the 8 inch coils on them...and I have the 12 inch Sunray coil too and still use the 8 inch coil the most. I feel that is the best overall coil for the unit. My opinion though.

CZ's are deep seeking units...but you have to learn them. They may be easy to use out of the box, but it takes hundreds of hours on them before you can run them hot and be productive. Learn to crawl before you walk and walk before you run.

Crawl using lower sensitivity at first, in discriminate mode, level 0, listen to ALL targets, and only dig repeatable mid and high tones that repeat from multiple angles. You may not dig that silver dime at 10+ inches, the silver dollar at 16 inches or the deep gold ring, but you will dig way less iron junk, you will learn the sounds good targets make, and when you hear that faint, repeatable high tone 'pink', you will know you have a deep coin. And when you get that repeatable mid tone...smile. Until you dig it up and find it's a pull tab ! But that's a good sign. You now know it will hit on a mid sized gold ring. The next repeatable mid tone may just be that gold target !

You have a great unit in the CZ21. Just take it slow and it will reward you.

 

[gleaner1]

therover, good write up. I must disagree with you on the sweep speed performance. The machine is a fast sweep machine. Not blazing fast, but certainly not slow. I say medium high. It is not a fast recovery machine so trashy areas you have to slow down. But if the area is fairly clean, a faster sweep will bring up the deepies much better.

 

[Streak!]

Great post! lots of good info there .
I agree about the CZ being a slow sweep machine.
It gets it absolute best depth at a crawl. Not like the 4 filter whites machines for instance....that have to be swung very fast for maximum depth. Swing the 20 or 21 fast and you'll miss a lot. You cant swing it fast in the water anyway............................so thats a good thing! Again.......great post!

Jup51,

I have been using CZ's as my main VLF units for salt water beach hunting since they first came out. I still have my original CZ20 and it works just as well the day I bought it.

CZ's will false for several reasons.

1) Running the sensitivity too high
2) Swing too fast ( they are slow sweep units)
3) Ground balance not set properly...but on a lot of beaches, you can run at 5 and be just fine

I suggest if you are having a hard time ground balancing, don't sweat it at first. Set it at 5 and move on. Make sure your sensitivity is set at 2...3 max to start ( assuming you are running in discriminate mode. If running in autotune ie. all metal, the sensitivity has to be turned up in the 8-10 range so you can hear the faint threshold warble. It is not a true threshold like Whites or Minelab units. The CZ by and large is a silent search unit, but you can run in semi-threshold mode in autotune with the sensitivity at 9-10 listening to the warble).

I say run in discriminate mode to start off...and at level 0. This is most important. DO NOT discriminate anything when beach hunting. Running in 0 mode will also allow you to learn the machine and it's nuances. One of the major ones is, when hitting on deep targets. When a CZ hits on a deep, non-ferrous target, it may hit as a low tone on some sweeps. Use the modulated audio feature ( that is, run at volume 5 or less) and the deep targets will sound fainter than the shallow ones. This will give you an idea that a deepie, even if hitting low tone every so often, with a mid or high tone hit as well, should be dug.

Running in 0 will also allow you to hear deep iron that may high tone/low tone bounce. If you run at discriminate level 1 or higher, you will not hear the low tone of the high tone/low tone bounce and only the high tone, think it's a good target, and dig up a nail. I can't tell you the number of nails and iron I dug running at level 1 or 2, because I only heard the high tone. When I finally realized that running in 0 is by far the best way to run, the shallow and mid level iron targets where no longer dug. You WILL dig deep iron and some other forms of iron with a CZ...as you will with most all other detectors on the beach. Bottom line is, on a salt water beach, some gold jewelry WILL be in the iron range. Depends on the conditions and the make up of the gold jewelry.

Main thing is to have fun and don't sweat the small stuff. Set the unit up so it is STABLE...do not go for max depth settings when first starting out. You will get discouraged easily that way. Take it slow, sweep slow, sweep the target from multiple angles, and when you get a good, REPEATABLE mid or high tone hit when sweeping from multiple angles...DIG IT. Any repeatable low tone, when starting out, or if there are more low tones than high or mid tones when there is a mixture of tones....move on.

The ONLY time you should even consider using discriminate level 1 or higher on the beach, is when there is SO much small iron, that every sweep you hear a low tone.

Last thing...hopefully you have a CZ21 with the 8 inch coil. Much easier to sweep, pin point and separate targets. And it still gets great depth on it. I have the 10.5 inch on my CZ20, but I use my CZ6a's more with the 8 inch coils on them...and I have the 12 inch Sunray coil too and still use the 8 inch coil the most. I feel that is the best overall coil for the unit. My opinion though.

CZ's are deep seeking units...but you have to learn them. They may be easy to use out of the box, but it takes hundreds of hours on them before you can run them hot and be productive. Learn to crawl before you walk and walk before you run.

Crawl using lower sensitivity at first, in discriminate mode, level 0, listen to ALL targets, and only dig repeatable mid and high tones that repeat from multiple angles. You may not dig that silver dime at 10+ inches, the silver dollar at 16 inches or the deep gold ring, but you will dig way less iron junk, you will learn the sounds good targets make, and when you hear that faint, repeatable high tone 'pink', you will know you have a deep coin. And when you get that repeatable mid tone...smile. Until you dig it up and find it's a pull tab ! But that's a good sign. You now know it will hit on a mid sized gold ring. The next repeatable mid tone may just be that gold target !

You have a great unit in the CZ21. Just take it slow and it will reward you.

 

[gleaner1]

Jup51, eighteen years, 80 plus indians, 300 plus silver and tons of crap say that the cz20/21 is anything but a crawl machine. The faster you sweep, the better the deepies get "excited" by the transmit signal, and they pop better. It don't matter anyway. One man's slow is another man's fast. On the cz20/21, crawl is a big no-no.

 

[gleaner1]

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