Desert markers and symbols

[Alpha137]

If I were younger, stronger and had a straighter back, I'd be uncovering that pile of rubble in front of the heart in Post #35 - wondering if was backfill. Sometimes we seriously overthink things until the point where we're brain-paralyzed and run in circles.

Once upon a time I decided to dig under a heart I found (middle photo, Post #37). Here's what I found:
View attachment 1615294
Nothing! Ha ha ... Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

It is only work right? ha. I might do something like that this fall. I will see, but darn there are some large boulders there.

 

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[mdog]

When you are looking at the hump on the snake, straight on, what direction are you facing? I’m talking about the snake in your first picture.

Do you know what direction you would be facing?

 

[Alpha137]

Do you know what direction you would be facing?

North almost spot on.

 

[Maverick1]

The large heart ledge.

Alpha 13/7,
Congratulations for finding one of the very few and genuine sites.
There is much more in the pictures you posted than it could ever be covered in words.
It seems that you will have your hands full for a long-long time to come and that is a good thing.
Again, congratulations and be safe. (there seems to be at least one un-triggered trap) Be cautious before moving any rocks (at cave entrance).
Lots of photos will help you decide the furtherance of you actions.
Regards.

 

[mdog]

North almost spot on.

Is this place below the 37th degree north latitude?

 

[sdcfia]

It is only work right? ha. I might do something like that this fall. I will see, but darn there are some large boulders there.

Well, if your photo shows all of the "passage", it shouldn't be too bad. It'd be nice if you had a partner, but that whole deal carries its own baggage. Anyway, start at the top and toss or roll those round boulders out of the picture, including that weird looking serpent thingy in the bottom right. If you can lay your hands on a long steel pry bar, such as a stope bar, you can pretty easily get rid of those big flat rocks too. Slide them on down, levering them out of your way. When I say, "out of the picture", I mean beyond and below the toe of the slope - you'll need room next to start piling up the dirt, gravel and smaller rocks. Start at the top with this too. If there happens to be a hole under that pile, you'll want to find the top end of it. You may end up returning several times before you satisfy your curiosity - you don't have to do it all in one day.

I don't cotton to the deathtrap meme, but if there does happen to be a hole there, you'll need to be cautious about bad air in it.

Of course, after all this work, you may also find nothing. If so, don't fret about it. Join the club. Remember, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Also, whether that site is on private or public land - take your pick - you'll have to consider the issue of whose surface you'll be disturbing.

 

[Alpha137]

Alpha 13/7,
Congratulations for finding one of the very few and genuine sites.
There is much more in the pictures you posted than it could ever be covered in words.
It seems that you will have your hands full for a long-long time to come and that is a good thing.
Again, congratulations and be safe. (there seems to be at least one un-triggered trap) Be cautious before moving any rocks (at cave entrance).
Lots of photos will help you decide the furtherance of you actions.
Regards.

It is a lot so absorb and a lot to figure out. I am very cautious and would rather not find anything if getting someone hurt is the cost. Thanks for the advice. Chime in anytime. I guarantee if there is something here I will need help. haha.

 

[Alpha137]

Well, if your photo shows all of the "passage", it shouldn't be too bad. It'd be nice if you had a partner, but that whole deal carries its own baggage. Anyway, start at the top and toss or roll those round boulders out of the picture, including that weird looking serpent thingy in the bottom right. If you can lay your hands on a long steel pry bar, such as a stope bar, you can pretty easily get rid of those big flat rocks too. Slide them on down, levering them out of your way. When I say, "out of the picture", I mean beyond and below the toe of the slope - you'll need room next to start piling up the dirt, gravel and smaller rocks. Start at the top with this too. If there happens to be a hole under that pile, you'll want to find the top end of it. You may end up returning several times before you satisfy your curiosity - you don't have to do it all in one day.

I don't cotton to the deathtrap meme, but if there does happen to be a hole there, you'll need to be cautious about bad air in it.

Of course, after all this work, you may also find nothing. If so, don't fret about it. Join the club. Remember, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Also, whether that site is on private or public land - take your pick - you'll have to consider the issue of whose surface you'll be disturbing.

Yes this is a whole mess of things to consider. Legally and ethically. I am just enjoying playing the explorer, so if that is all I get out of it then I am good with that. A bad day in the desert trying to solve a possible treasure mystery is better than any day not out there. Thank you for the advice. The main issue I have right is that it is remote and any tools taken are carried on my back for a good distance - well, that and time. haha. Getting a vehicle all the way in there is out of the question, a boat would be the best option for any heavy tools. But, for now I think I will do basically what you are suggesting - a pry bar, shovel, and strong back.

 

[mdog]

 

[mdog]

View attachment 1615688

This hole is shaped like the head of your snake and is sited toward the NE where there is a low hill. Through the hole you can see the rising sun come up over the hill on the summer solstice. If the head of your carving is facing toward the NE and a hill, between the carving and the top of the hill, you might find a setup like this, or similar.

 

[Alpha137]

This hole is shaped like the head of your snake and is sited toward the NE where there is a low hill. Through the hole you can see the rising sun come up over the hill on the summer solstice. If the head of your carving is facing toward the NE and a hill, between the carving and the top of the hill, you might find a setup like this, or similar.

Interesting, yes there is a hill, actually a ridge. In this first picture in this set you are looking directly back at the snake and other glyphs. I haven't decided if this is coincidence or not. There are some other potential spots on this part of the ridge for what you are suggesting, also. The distance is approximate a mile between them, with an elevation difference of 450ft. A stone circle is also just behind and on top of this rock. It appears to be a lookout or signal spot.

The second picture is an interesting rock panel. The snake head, or what appears to be one, is looking back at the hearts and turtle. If you look close you can see other images within the snake head. A possible fox and another larger face, but interpretation is subjective. Also, mother nature is the ultimate comedian sometimes, but there are all sorts of interesting things on this rock wall, or panel. This picture is just a small portion of it.

The third picture is a late 17th century or early 18th century version of the symbol for aqua fortis.

 

[mdog]

The history of these places is of interest to me. With the Native American petroglyphs it must be an old gathering place. Just a few questions for you. Is this place on an east-west or north-south trail. Is it in a metal producing area. Is there a source of water close. Have you found any Spanish or French words carved in the rocks. Are there any Native American ruins near and what tribes have lived in this area. I’d love to hear the history of the place, without you giving away the location, naturally. Thanks.

 

[Alpha137]

The history of these places is of interest to me. With the Native American petroglyphs it must be an old gathering place. Just a few questions for you. Is this place on an east-west or north-south trail. Is it in a metal producing area. Is there a source of water close. Have you found any Spanish or French words carved in the rocks. Are there any Native American ruins near and what tribes have lived in this area. I’d love to hear the history of the place, without you giving away the location, naturally. Thanks.

It is for sure an old gathering place, at times anyway, and yes there is water close. I would assume that people of the past used flood type irrigation, but before cultivation eras it would have been close to a travel route for nomadic Native Americans. It is rugged country and there are only so many easy routes to access certain areas of interest for nomadic people, or those who settled. The Native Americans go back at least 2000 years, but possibly much much longer.

 

[Maverick1]

Alpha,
Are there any traces of wild burros scattered all over the hills? (if this is too sensitive, please disregard the question. TY)

 

[Gambrinus]

There was a cattle brand that looks like your "VF" in Dragoon Arizona. Don't know if you are in Az. or not.

I'm not trying to be negative to your search, because this is the first thread that I have seen concerning marks or signs that isn't filled with a bunch
of nonsense. Is your area near any known gold or silver mines?

 

[Alpha137]

Alpha,
Are there any traces of wild burros scattered all over the hills? (if this is too sensitive, please disregard the question. TY)

Not too sensitive, but I am not exactly sure what you mean? haha. If you need, pm me.

 

[Alpha137]

There was a cattle brand that looks like your "VF" in Dragoon Arizona. Don't know if you are in Az. or not.

I'm not trying to be negative to your search, because this is the first thread that I have seen concerning marks or signs that isn't filled with a bunch
of nonsense. Is your area near any known gold or silver mines?

No problem, I do not see your comment as negative. It is a very good question. This is usable information, either to confirm or disregard information as it comes. So as far as the brand in AZ it shouldn't be in this area, but you have given me something to consider more in depth.

Edit Note: There is the potential that it is a brand. I will need to do some more research for sure. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Alpha137]

Alpha,
Are there any traces of wild burros scattered all over the hills? (if this is too sensitive, please disregard the question. TY)

Do you mean those over populating, non-indigenous, feral beasts that do major damage to cars on the road way?

 

[Maverick1]

Do you mean those over populating, non-indigenous, feral beasts that do major damage to cars on the road way?

Ha-ha,...yes, but we can leave this topic for some other time. LOL. This weather (110-118) is deadly for any outdoors activity. It is a good time for home study, though.
I'll get in touch via pm in a little while. Regards.

 

[Alpha137]

The history of these places is of interest to me. With the Native American petroglyphs it must be an old gathering place. Just a few questions for you. Is this place on an east-west or north-south trail. Is it in a metal producing area. Is there a source of water close. Have you found any Spanish or French words carved in the rocks. Are there any Native American ruins near and what tribes have lived in this area. I’d love to hear the history of the place, without you giving away the location, naturally. Thanks.

I am trying to decide what to say. The trail isn't just one direction. It starts in an easterly direction and then heads south and winds back a bit to the west. I believe it is an intersection in the sense that there are multiple directions to head from the basin where the glyphs are. The area is rugged and although traveling overland can be done, there are natural routes that make travel easier. There may have been a time when wagons could have been maneuvered close to the vault area, but not today. Even a very experienced guy on a dirt bike (me) couldn't find a route in to the vault area that wasn't dangerous and not worth it. So basically I think the broader area could easily have been, actually was, a way point for nomadic people or traveling expeditions. One could probably eek out a long term existence there even, but wow what a rough life that would be. Yes, there are sources of water.

With that said, the vault area would have been an area that you went to for other more specific reasons. It is steep, rocky, ledged in, even a bit dangerous. I have seen rocks fall down the 300+ft almost vertical hills and ledges a couple of times. One day I had a softball sized rock almost hit me and my dog when we were walking below a 30ft ledge - it came from above the ledge not off the ledge. If I was a bit more paranoid I would have thought it was thrown at us based on it's trajectory and speed. There is a "spookiness" to the canyon with the vault. Not by the glyphs, but out by the vault area. The more time you spend there the more you feel uneasy. There is kind of a feeling of being watched. I am not trying to be dramatic or anything like that. I think it is a function of being kind of enclosed by steep rocky ledges in a remote area and knowing you are at the mercy of mother nature, but I also like to be out there. The area is mineral rich in some ways, but I have never heard of any large gold deposits there. But I just got a lead an a potential in that regard so I don't know. Of course gold is often found in the strangest places anyway. And quartz and iron, yes they are there. Some silver and copper too.

Check out this large boulder overlooking the vault area. It is strange and probably contributes to the feeling of being watched. I call it skull rock. haha. It sits about 40ft above on a ledge and "looks" back down at the turtle and hearts.