DO YOU GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS UNDER THE MINING LAWS WHEN YOU SIGN A NOI OR POO ?
- Thread starter SLNugget
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fowledup
Silver Member
- Jul 21, 2013
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This thread looks into it and has plenty of links for further research
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/449234-visit-usfs-leaves-me-questions.html
This also addresses it, another version is on the WMA website.
What Is A Mining Right? - Miner's News - ICMJ's Prospecting and Mining Journal
It is my understanding that when you agree to a POO or NOI you are signing a contract with the Forest Service, and in doing so are agreeing to follow their rules and regulations and in consequence forfeit any rights that may pertain to the subject of the NOI, or POO. I think most POO's and NOI's are not required in the first place and folks get buffaloed into submitting them. The Forest Service knows this but throws it out their anyway just like the traffic cops that write tickets counting on folks not fighting them. We have a POO for one of our claims which we now know to be BS and unnecessary, we were told incorrectly it was the only way we could camp near one of the claims. At first it doesn't seem to be a big deal, but looking into it, it could turn into a very big deal.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/449234-visit-usfs-leaves-me-questions.html
This also addresses it, another version is on the WMA website.
What Is A Mining Right? - Miner's News - ICMJ's Prospecting and Mining Journal
It is my understanding that when you agree to a POO or NOI you are signing a contract with the Forest Service, and in doing so are agreeing to follow their rules and regulations and in consequence forfeit any rights that may pertain to the subject of the NOI, or POO. I think most POO's and NOI's are not required in the first place and folks get buffaloed into submitting them. The Forest Service knows this but throws it out their anyway just like the traffic cops that write tickets counting on folks not fighting them. We have a POO for one of our claims which we now know to be BS and unnecessary, we were told incorrectly it was the only way we could camp near one of the claims. At first it doesn't seem to be a big deal, but looking into it, it could turn into a very big deal.
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No, yes, maybe? A POO is not a Contract its an Agreement that you write up and they suggest alternatives
If its in the agreement that no sedement will go into the stream from your holding pond,
if some does you get fined or told to shut down even though you could legaly run a suction dredge in the same stream.
after you submit a POO they send out scoping letters and get public comments,they do an Environmental Assessment
could take years; http://www.blm.gov/or/districts/medford/plans/files/tracysuckerea.pdf
.
If its in the agreement that no sedement will go into the stream from your holding pond,
if some does you get fined or told to shut down even though you could legaly run a suction dredge in the same stream.
after you submit a POO they send out scoping letters and get public comments,they do an Environmental Assessment
could take years; http://www.blm.gov/or/districts/medford/plans/files/tracysuckerea.pdf
.
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russau
Gold Member
this would be a GREAT topic to send to ALL clubs for their info at their meetings.
Hoser John
Gold Member
Sign on the line and kiss them rights good by as any new contract with any government entity negates much you do NOT want to lose. Only 2 NOI in my entire mining life,both in recreational areas so mandatory or no play--also with refundable security bond=specific performance for reclaimation-John
Good Question Stan!
There is a concept in American law that states that we have an absolute right to contract. This includes the right to exchange rights for benefits.
A Notice of Intent (NOI) is not a contract or an agreement. No government agency can make you submit a NOI. The NOI is just a notice to the land management agency that you are unsure if your planned mining activities will create undue or unnecessary damage to the land ("significant surface disturbance" in agency speak). All NOIs are self initiated by the miner, there are no forms or requirements as to how the miner offers a Notice.
The NOI is basically saying you think the land management agency should decide whether your mining activities will be within best mining practices for your chosen site. In describing your mining plans in your NOI you might make promises that agency would then rely on. In making those promises you might give up rights you have under the mining acts.
A Plan of Operations (POO) is a contract with the land management agency. A POO is required when the miner will be causing undue and unnecessary damage to the land. The contract is negotiated between the miner and the land management agency. The contract runs for a specific period of time and requires specific acts and reporting by the miner as well as the "benefit" of oversight by the land management agency.
Until the miner and the agency reach agreement there is no contract nor is there a POO. The agency will insist on some "standard" terms that must be included in the POO including their exclusive right to change the terms of the contract. Many of these standard terms involve the miner exchanging their rights under the mining acts for contract terms defined or not yet defined. Rights are defined and don't change but agency oversight can change with changing policy, regulation or law.
Once a POO is agreed on, signed, and a cash guarantee bond is posted the miner is legally bound by the terms of the Plan. Mining rights do not trump your personal signed, bonded and insured Plan agreement. The agreement will be the new rules for your mining no matter what the mining acts say. Until your plan is completed, including any rehabilitation or remediation agreed to, and the bond is returned the POO is the law concerning the mining plan.
None of this means the miner can have his rights taken away from him. It does mean the miner can trade his rights for the benefit of mining under a Plan of Operation agreement. The miner's right to contract is still absolute. Be careful that you understand, and agree to, the implications of any contract you sign.
Heavy Pans
There is a concept in American law that states that we have an absolute right to contract. This includes the right to exchange rights for benefits.
A Notice of Intent (NOI) is not a contract or an agreement. No government agency can make you submit a NOI. The NOI is just a notice to the land management agency that you are unsure if your planned mining activities will create undue or unnecessary damage to the land ("significant surface disturbance" in agency speak). All NOIs are self initiated by the miner, there are no forms or requirements as to how the miner offers a Notice.
The NOI is basically saying you think the land management agency should decide whether your mining activities will be within best mining practices for your chosen site. In describing your mining plans in your NOI you might make promises that agency would then rely on. In making those promises you might give up rights you have under the mining acts.
A Plan of Operations (POO) is a contract with the land management agency. A POO is required when the miner will be causing undue and unnecessary damage to the land. The contract is negotiated between the miner and the land management agency. The contract runs for a specific period of time and requires specific acts and reporting by the miner as well as the "benefit" of oversight by the land management agency.
Until the miner and the agency reach agreement there is no contract nor is there a POO. The agency will insist on some "standard" terms that must be included in the POO including their exclusive right to change the terms of the contract. Many of these standard terms involve the miner exchanging their rights under the mining acts for contract terms defined or not yet defined. Rights are defined and don't change but agency oversight can change with changing policy, regulation or law.
Once a POO is agreed on, signed, and a cash guarantee bond is posted the miner is legally bound by the terms of the Plan. Mining rights do not trump your personal signed, bonded and insured Plan agreement. The agreement will be the new rules for your mining no matter what the mining acts say. Until your plan is completed, including any rehabilitation or remediation agreed to, and the bond is returned the POO is the law concerning the mining plan.
None of this means the miner can have his rights taken away from him. It does mean the miner can trade his rights for the benefit of mining under a Plan of Operation agreement. The miner's right to contract is still absolute. Be careful that you understand, and agree to, the implications of any contract you sign.
Heavy Pans
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