Do you guys think e-bay artifacts will destroy collections?

[Tnmountains]

Question: Do you all think that Ebay and similar places that sell artifacts will destroy legitimate collections? I was buying some parts for my 4 -wheeler and could not help but look and see what was being sold. I saw one guy selling Paleo style artifacts and they looked perfect. At the end of the listing the seller said they had no idea where it came from or if it was Paleo. People were bidding like crazy on these items. As a hunter in a decent area I know how rare it is to find a Clovis, Beaver Lake or Cumberland. Go to E-Bay and there are many. One guy said great patina and it was a Hornstone Beaver Lake or something and I did not see patina.
So if these points are being added to ones collection to round it out so to speak and one day the collection gets sold the first thing a buyer does is look for suspect pieces and it can ruin the whole collection if not documented as a bought item with a pedigree. I cannot imagine having a collection of Paleo and not knowing who found it, when and the county at least.
I will try to find the links and let you all see what you think and opinions on this subject are welcome. If you see a link of to good to be true post it up for debate.
I have bought off e-bay artifacts and there is nothing wrong with it I just keep them separate and marked as an e-bay find.
TnMtns.

 

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[Tnmountains]

A friend and mentor of mine passed away named Dan Stroud. He had a large collection and hunted in the hey day and I some many of his pieces were sold by Tony Putty on liveauctioners. Strange to see them out of the frames and shelfs. I did not realize that some of the items I had held would sell for around $20,000.00.They seems to sell whole collections after looking at Putty's site. Out of one collection a piece sold for $800,000.00.
Thats not eBay material

 

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[Mark Todd]

A friend and mentor of mine passed away named Dan Stroud. He had a large collection and hunted in the hey day and I some many of his pieces were sold by Tony Putty on liveauctioners. Strange to see them out of the frames and shelfs. I did not realize that some of the items I had held would sell for around $20,000.00.They seems to sell whole collections after looking at Putty's site. Out of one collection a piece sold for $800,000.00.
Thats not eBay material

A friend of mine set the record for the most money paid for an Indian artifact to date. If you're referring to the "Townsend birdstone with yellow phencryists from the Smithsonian.museum that didn't make reserve price at Morphies auction house but was later sold for "wait for it"..... $800,000 in a private transaction!!! The guy who brokered that deal is a friend of mine, and lives only a half an hour from me, he also brokered the transaction of my $35,000 Barbed Hardin point to Dodd DeCamp in Texas.

 

[Jon Stewart]

Whether it is e-bay or a hunting catalog, I buy nothing without having my hands on it first. I know lots of folks who buy and sell off ebay and do well but it is a crap shoot and I say buyer beware.

Monsterack is an outstanding flintknapper and knows his stuff. I am a hack compared to him and his work but I do know enough to be dangerous when it comes to IDing fake heads. I am real good at it at the flee market, lol.

 

[Tnmountains]

A friend of mine set the record for the most money paid for an Indian artifact to date. If you're referring to the "Townsend birdstone with yellow phencryists from the Smithsonian.museum that didn't make reserve price at Morphies auction house but was later sold for "wait for it"..... $800,000 in a private transaction!!! The guy who brokered that deal is a friend of mine, and lives only a half an hour from me, he also brokered the transaction of my $35,000 Barbed Hardin point to Dodd DeCamp in Texas.

Yes the ring neck birdstone. It is an amazing piece. The Smithsonian from what I have heard has always been open to looking at collections not in their possession and giving opinions. Congrats on the barbed Hardin deal. That will make you smile.

 

[pickaway]

imo its the tons of authenticators out there ruining the hobby ppl see a coa and think oh its real, some ppl in aso selling fake chit beyond belief and its been going on for years.ebay is full of fake coas

 

[newnan man]

Just got the house buttoned up for hurricane Irma so I took a break. Started browsing eBay. It is absolutely loaded with fakes. It's rediculous!

 

[newnan man]

Couldn't get the pic to load up. Sorry

 

[Mark Todd]

Yes the ring neck birdstone. It is an amazing piece. The Smithsonian from what I have heard has always been open to looking at collections not in their possession and giving opinions. Congrats on the barbed Hardin deal. That will make you smile.

Actually it wasn't "old ring neck", it sold for much less, it is a bust birdstone.
This is the one, the one ( with yellow phenocrysts) that set the record.
To be exact it was purchased for $865,000... just imagine the kind of home (mansion) you you could buy in exchange for that little stone!!! It's unreal.

 

[Tnmountains]

Not bad for a single artifact with good documentation. I would have sold it also.

 

[quito]

imo its the tons of authenticators out there ruining the hobby ppl see a coa and think oh its real, some ppl in aso selling fake chit beyond belief and its been going on for years.ebay is full of fake coas

i agree! Like in many things tho, there are the crooks, the good guys, the learned and the still learning. We can't let some bad apples spoil the whole lot.

Still, in all fairness, I have handled/dealt several eBay pieces that have greatly enhanced some collections. I've also sold many pieces in the past that have enhanced collections, and I do plan to sell some more there in the future. It's been a good outlet for me in the past. I like to buy local stuff, cherry pick, and then sell some. Gives me something to do in the slow season, and I've met some great people. Sellers of good things get known among the learned.

 

[scotto]

Lots of good thoughts in this thread.

Lots to break down and get figured out before we buy something off of ebay.

#1. Not everything labeled as "paleo" is actually paleo. Some people are just paleo-crazy, and ANYTHING with a rounded base with a couple thinning strikes (makes it "fluted") and they scream "PALEO!" I got some people mad at me a few years ago when I snapped the base off of a Texas Perd and asked them what I found. Almost everyone said "paleo," and then I showed them the rest of the point. *note - You don't make any friends doing something like that. lol

#2. LOTS of "Clovis" points on ebay, and at least 99% of them are fake. To find a perfect G-10 clovis is rare as hen's teeth. Most you see from true finders are pretty beat up, once in a while a beaut shows up, but it's rare.

#3. A "COA" means nothing more than SOMEONE'S OPINION. So, in all honesty, now the point matters not, it's about the opinion and the paper behind it. It's insanity. With the exception of just a couple authenticators, most I wouldn't trust as many have papered points that anyone with half a brain can tell are repros.
Dwain Rogers is great for Texas stuff, but I wouldn't trust his opinion on a point from Maine. Stick with people who know their areas.

#4. People need to realize what a G-10 truly is. A TRUE G-10 point is perfect in type, form, symmetry, material, with no nicks, chips, stacks, etc.
Out of the hundreds of great pieces I've collected, maybe three of them would fit the G-10 category. I've seen a guy walk in from a dig holding four whole points saying; "Hey I found four G-10's!" And maybe the nicest one he had was a G-6 at best.

G-10 does NOT mean merely "a complete point."

#5. MonsterRack gave some good advice, learn your area and what you'd expect to find, what's typically found, how it's made and what it's made of. I'm not going to find any Haskells made of obsidian here. So if someone says they found one here, I don't care if it's selling for a nickel - I'm not going to pollute my collection with it.

#6. Don't buy into this "laser" BS. 'Nuff said.

#7. Learn to knap and how points are made. It will help you a lot.

#8. IMO, a small, self-collected box of points from a local area will be worth more in the long run than some of this high-priced "perfect" junk being sold on ebay. The market is getting so saturated with it, that in all probability, in just a few years down the road a lot of this perfect stuff will be lumped together into the "fake" category and will be almost worthless.

 

[unclemac]

#2. LOTS of "Clovis" points on ebay, and at least 99% of them are fake. To find a perfect G-10 clovis is rare as hen's teeth. Most you see from true finders are pretty beat up, once in a while a beaut shows up, but it's rare.

Clovis Arrowhead - Carter Cave Flint | eBay


"

Nice fluted Clovis Arrowhead. This point is 3" long and made from a semi-translucent Carter Cave flint. Age and origin unknown.....selling as is." .....love the wording on the description.....

 

[scotto]

#2. LOTS of "Clovis" points on ebay, and at least 99% of them are fake. To find a perfect G-10 clovis is rare as hen's teeth. Most you see from true finders are pretty beat up, once in a while a beaut shows up, but it's rare.

Clovis Arrowhead - Carter Cave Flint | eBay


"

Nice fluted Clovis Arrowhead. This point is 3" long and made from a semi-translucent Carter Cave flint. Age and origin unknown.....selling as is." .....love the wording on the description.....

Kinda strange, that after ALLLLL of those years with that clovis being in the ground, collecting dirt and all, that none of it would wind up under any of those fresh hinge fractures. Truly a miracle. Good grief.

 

[unclemac]

Kinda strange, that after ALLLLL of those years with that clovis being in the ground, collecting dirt and all, that none of it would wind up under any of those fresh hinge fractures. Truly a miracle. Good grief.

G11!!!