DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mike, Whisky Rat: yer both off. Thoses are Dore' bars

 

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[whiskeyrat]

I have been at work all day doing nothing but math. I am the Internet Sales Manager at a VW Dealership. My brain is fried today(last day of the month). I forgot to add in the pound weight of the bars (40 pounds per bar x 12 ounces to the pound, 1200 bars x $1100 an ounce).

...and being a smarta$$ doesn't get you what Willie said! HAHAHA

Mike

you could PM it to me
wr

 

[gollum]

Mike, Whisky Rat: yer both off. Thoses are Dore' bars

No they're not. Willie only had refined bars. Doc had both refined and dore

Mike

 

[gollum]

Mike, if your in VW's, how come you are driving a white Landrover ??

I have a white Range Rover and a Green Land Rover Discovery II. I have them because VW does not have the Amarok 4x4 in the United States. Other than that, I would have to spend about $50k to get an Off Road capable VW.

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mike

Since the Caballos & Victorio peak were clandestine deposits they were mine run bars, not refined, which the gov''t could track down.

In fact, Doc first said tha he thought that they were Iron bars fused together. This indicats Dore bars heavily loaded wth base metals

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I wasn't serious Mike, but VW did make a quasi off roader in their 4 x 4 Kombi.

 

[gollum]

I wasn't serious Mike, but VW did make a quasi off roader in their 4 x 4 Kombi.

In the US, the 4x4 was called the SYNCHRO (first on the Vanagon and then on the Eurovan). Just like the Westfalia was the little pop up camper top that was on several van models.

I am telling you with no equivocation that Willie's Bars were all refined with high purity. Like I said, Doc had a combination of Dore and Refined. At least three that he gave away that I know of were refined.

That said, we know for a fact that at least some of Doc's Dore Bars came from VP, while his refined bars may have come from the Caballos (his second treasure cave).

See, the thing is that from Doc's and Ova's own mouths we KNOW that at least some of the VP Bars were dore. We know for a fact that Doc had both dore and refined bars (we don't know for a fact where any of those refined bars came from). We are pretty sure that Doc had a second cave in the Caballos. No description exists about a cave or bars of any kind of Docs in the Caballos. We know that Willie's Bars were refined. We also know that Willie's Treasure Cave is in the Caballos. Willie had no dore bars at all. So, either Doc's second treasure cave had refined bars, or Doc found the location of Willie's Cave after Willie bailed out of town in 1933, and Doc was a$$ed out of VP by White Sands. There is only one thing that throws the latter idea out is a statement from Willie/Laurence that there should still be about 1200-1400 bars in his cave. He also said that if anybody would have found his cave, he would have known about it. Willie kept in touch with someone or some folks after he moved to San Diego.

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mike, since I really don't know too much about the Caballo or Victoria peak, except that they were clandesine depository points, thanks to NP's lil map, I'll have to take your word, which is okay with me., Refined bars would be too easy to trace.

Normally refined legit bars would go from Mexico city direct to a shipping port Dore' bars could originate in whateverr mine had enough production. Hence the Jesuits were into Dore' bars.

Here in Alamos, they had records of 1000 mules loaded with Dore' bars of Gold and Silverheading for the Smelters in Mexico city. Although they had a mint here in the late 18o0's Here is one of the 8 Reales that I recovered form that hjacked mule train.
Uncirculated.

 

[whiskeyrat]

In the US, the 4x4 was called the SYNCHRO (first on the Vanagon and then on the Eurovan). Just like the Westfalia was the little pop up camper top that was on several van models.

I am telling you with no equivocation that Willie's Bars were all refined with high purity. Like I said, Doc had a combination of Dore and Refined. At least three that he gave away that I know of were refined.

That said, we know for a fact that at least some of Doc's Dore Bars came from VP, while his refined bars may have come from the Caballos (his second treasure cave).

See, the thing is that from Doc's and Ova's own mouths we KNOW that at least some of the VP Bars were dore. We know for a fact that Doc had both dore and refined bars (we don't know for a fact where any of those refined bars came from). We are pretty sure that Doc had a second cave in the Caballos. No description exists about a cave or bars of any kind of Docs in the Caballos. We know that Willie's Bars were refined. We also know that Willie's Treasure Cave is in the Caballos. Willie had no dore bars at all. So, either Doc's second treasure cave had refined bars, or Doc found the location of Willie's Cave after Willie bailed out of town in 1933, and Doc was a$$ed out of VP by White Sands. There is only one thing that throws the latter idea out is a statement from Willie/Laurence that there should still be about 1200-1400 bars in his cave. He also said that if anybody would have found his cave, he would have known about it. Willie kept in touch with someone or some folks after he moved to San Diego.

Mike

In gold house first book the discovery, it reads that Doc convinced Willie that he had found his cave by describing the cave in detail even to a pot bellied stove being in the cave??
did willie ever mention to you that a pot bellied stove was in the cave?
wr

 

[BIGSCOTT]

yeah i shopped at the Dodge Phelps merchantile in Playas a few times, but it was so high it was worth it
to go to Lordsburg, if you were going to buy a bill of groceries, the road from playas through the southern end of the little Hatchets
is called broken jug pass, the smelter in the valley was the largest in the world at one time, they hauled in ore by rail from Silver City,
and south america, the veins of white sandstone in the Hatchets, and Playas valley are some of the finest flux sand there is, it is
dug and shipped to smelters all over the world.

 

[gollum]

In gold house first book the discovery, it reads that Doc convinced Willie that he had found his cave by describing the cave in detail even to a pot bellied stove being in the cave??
did willie ever mention to you that a pot bellied stove was in the cave?
wr

WR,

Why do you think that I talked to Willie? Just because I know a lot of what he said, doesn't necessarily mean I spoke with him. HAHAHA Sorry about being cryptic, but some things I may or may not verify or deny publicly. What I will say for certain is that I have been to his grave a couple of times. He is buried about three blocks from my old office in Glendale, Ca. (Forest Lawn Glendale). .....and NO, I didn't visit the grave with a Ouija Board! HAHAHA I thought about it, but didn't want to have to explain to a Forest Lawn Security Guy why I am sitting on the grave with a Ouija Board. Also, no guarantee I would get Willie! HAHAHA

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Perhaps, perhaps ou cn get one of his new freinds whom he bragged to on your Ouiji board mike.

 

[whiskeyrat]

WR,

Why do you think that I talked to Willie? Just because I know a lot of what he said, doesn't necessarily mean I spoke with him. HAHAHA Sorry about being cryptic, but some things I may or may not verify or deny publicly. What I will say for certain is that I have been to his grave a couple of times. He is buried about three blocks from my old office in Glendale, Ca. (Forest Lawn Glendale). .....and NO, I didn't visit the grave with a Ouija Board! HAHAHA I thought about it, but didn't want to have to explain to a Forest Lawn Security Guy why I am sitting on the grave with a Ouija Board. Also, no guarantee I would get Willie! HAHAHA



Mike

Just fishing Mike. I respect what you have to say. Thought maybe I (we) could connect another dot.
I did meet a guy on my last trip to the mountains that claims Willy did stay in touch with him even when living in Ca right up to the end.
Told me lots of stuff Willy said and did etc etc. But as we both know "take it for what its worth".
Its not stuff thats in the books, so its either real or dillusion or purposeful misleading.
wr

 

[sdcfia]

Its not stuff thats in the books, so its either real or dillusion or purposeful misleading.
wr

Same goes for the stuff that is in the books.

 

[gollum]

Same goes for the stuff that is in the books.

HAHAHA Man ain't that the truth!

WR,

No worries. I love to fish myself! HAHAHA Good try though. (They need a "Men In Black" emoticon)

About people coming out and claiming to have stayed in touch with Willie (or that come to you out of the blue wanting you to buy in to their "Can't Miss" treasure hunt). Reread the first page of the Apache Jim Article. I think he said in the first afternoon of arriving in TorC, he had used up several rolls of tape and had a ton of secret treasure offers.

That said, I am certain Willie/Laurence DID keep in touch with AT LEAST one local person over the years. Otherwise he would have never said that "if anybody had found the cave, he would have known about it." And "supposedly" he waited about ten years before going back. Long enough for most to completely forget about him. He would sneak in and grab a bar or two, then wait another year or two before going back for more.

Mike

 

[whiskeyrat]

HAHAHA Man ain't that the truth!

WR,

No worries. I love to fish myself! HAHAHA Good try though. (They need a "Men In Black" emoticon)

About people coming out and claiming to have stayed in touch with Willie (or that come to you out of the blue wanting you to buy in to their "Can't Miss" treasure hunt). Reread the first page of the Apache Jim Article. I think he said in the first afternoon of arriving in TorC, he had used up several rolls of tape and had a ton of secret treasure offers.

That said, I am certain Willie/Laurence DID keep in touch with AT LEAST one local person over the years. Otherwise he would have never said that "if anybody had found the cave, he would have known about it." And "supposedly" he waited about ten years before going back. Long enough for most to completely forget about him. He would sneak in and grab a bar or two, then wait another year or two before going back for more.

Mike

Instead of someone local telling Willie his cave had not been found (which would mean someone local had to know where it was and was checking it),
could Willie have meant that when he went back to his cave each time he would know if someone had been there. Like he had fixed something on the rock covering the cave entrance that he would know if it had been moved.
A small branch lets say laid securely across the rock, that someone would toss aside not thinking about it, to roll the rock aside. They would not replace the branch because it appeared to be just innocently laying there.
I have successfully used that particular trick to find out if anyone is using a certain gate on my property.
wr

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Willie/Laurence is said to have had a ''Rock Shop'', maybe he made fake nuggets or jewlery or smething along those lines
this would have been an a covert way of turning his gold into cash, but would have also been slow.
maybe the rock shop was a cover, where large gold exchanges went down.

 

[gollum]

WR,

Willie/Laurence knew who the bad guys were. He was probably one of them (at least peripherally) for a while. I think he just kept tabs on certain people that would best be in a position to find his cave. Maybe he had a local on his payroll keeping tabs on those people. I know about when he started going back and sneaking out a couple of bars at a time, but I don't know when he quit going back. Also, TorC is a small town. If someone had discovered his cave, there would be no way to keep it a secret. I know he went out there to VP in 1992 during Goldfinder II, when Alex Interviewed him on camera.

Everybody has to also remember one thing, Willie bailed to California in 1933. That was the same year as the "US Gold Confiscation Act" from President Roosevelt. Only coin collectors, rockhounds, miners, and dentists were authorized to have more than five ounces of gold. Even then, it couldn't be in bar form (except maybe for dentists).

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

So have I whskyrat.

 

[whiskeyrat]

WR,

Willie/Laurence knew who the bad guys were. He was probably one of them (at least peripherally) for a while. I think he just kept tabs on certain people that would best be in a position to find his cave. Maybe he had a local on his payroll keeping tabs on those people. I know about when he started going back and sneaking out a couple of bars at a time, but I don't know when he quit going back. Also, TorC is a small town. If someone had discovered his cave, there would be no way to keep it a secret. I know he went out there to VP in 1992 during Goldfinder II, when Alex Interviewed him on camera.

Everybody has to also remember one thing, Willie bailed to California in 1933. That was the same year as the "US Gold Confiscation Act" from President Roosevelt. Only coin collectors, rockhounds, miners, and dentists were authorized to have more than five ounces of gold. Even then, it couldn't be in bar form (except maybe for dentists).

Mike

the most intriguing thing about all this that keeps me from giving up on willies cave, is the seemingly all accepted "fact" that willie was able to come back many times, find the cave, get a couple gold bars, and go home.
this makes me think this cave is relatively easy to access if one knows where to look, and easy to enter and retrieve gold bars. seems like its not going to be a 200 foot vertical repel down and climb back up with 80 lbs of gold, just walk in and take what you want. seems obvious the only reason it has not been found by anyone else in the last 85 years is that no one is looking in the right spot. like maybe all the "clues" are leading in the wrong direction. just sayin.
or, the rock sealing the entrance is so perfectly cut to fit, that you can walk up, look directly at it and not realize it is a separate rock just waiting to be rolled aside.
wr