DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[sdcfia]

... seems obvious the only reason it has not been found by anyone else in the last 85 years is that no one is looking in the right spot. like maybe all the "clues" are leading in the wrong direction. just sayin ...
wr

rat, why would you have any reason to think otherwise?

 

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[whiskeyrat]

rat, why would you have any reason to think otherwise?

hmmm yeah. its an affliction I have to always tell the truth. It causes me to think that others are always telling the truth also.
takes me longer than most to realize others might not be telling the whole (or any) truth.
wr

 

[sdcfia]

hmmm yeah. its an affliction I have to always tell the truth. It causes me to think that others are always telling the truth also.
takes me longer than most to realize others might not be telling the whole (or any) truth.
wr

ooooo ... that's unfortunate. If you're going to believe other folks' truths, you better be young enough to be able to afford wasting a lotta time.

 

[gollum]

ooooo ... that's unfortunate. If you're going to believe other folks' truths, you better be young enough to be able to afford wasting a lotta time.

Any statements or clues during the time the treasure finder was active with that treasure should probably be almost completely discounted (unless that info didn't come out till years after). I mean really, if YOU were working a rich treasure cave, would you give ANYONE even the barest of clues? H*LL NO! When I am too old to go into the mountains, then I MIGHT let someone in on my secret, but not while I could still get to it myself.

The perfect for-instance is: Can anyone tell me just how many different stories Willie told about the source of his gold cave? At least three that I know of. Of those three NOT ONE mentions Jack Reynolds.

Mike

 

[markmar]

whiskeyrat

I never lied to anybody and I hate the people that are lying to me . Tell the truth or don't tell anything is my motto . If you trust me , I am willing to help you in your research .

 

[whiskeyrat]

whiskeyrat

I never lied to anybody and I hate the people that are lying to me . Tell the truth or don't tell anything is my motto . If you trust me , I am willing to help you in your research .

I would appreciate any help you can give me.
Previously you spoke of Ash Canyon in Sierra county around 33-03.
If i am in the right area, Ash canyon you speak of is in NM T14S R3W, section 34.
Is this the area you are thinking?
wr

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Cochise College                P

 

[whiskeyrat]

Any statements or clues during the time the treasure finder was active with that treasure should probably be almost completely discounted (unless that info didn't come out till years after). I mean really, if YOU were working a rich treasure cave, would you give ANYONE even the barest of clues? H*LL NO! When I am too old to go into the mountains, then I MIGHT let someone in on my secret, but not while I could still get to it myself.

The perfect for-instance is: Can anyone tell me just how many different stories Willie told about the source of his gold cave? At least three that I know of. Of those three NOT ONE mentions Jack Reynolds.

Mike

Mike,
Agreed. This is why I got so intrigued when NP started posting maps and giving hints etc. He has said he is done with the search and wants others to continue. So I want to continue. However, it would be nice not to have to start at zero all over again. If each generation continues to start at zero and spend 20 years getting to some point and then not let the next generation start from there and go on, everyone keeps starting over.
So, the maps are exciting, but after some time seem so general that ok, they lead to the caballos (we think), but that is 30 miles of territory. will take 20 years and not even scratch that vast area.
who has Willies or Docs map with coordinates?. that is what we need.
Till then, i study the maps, i read the stories, i study and walk the terrain, hoping that something will click with something i see one day. I love it.
wr

 

[gollum]

Mike,
Agreed. This is why I got so intrigued when NP started posting maps and giving hints etc. He has said he is done with the search and wants others to continue. So I want to continue. However, it would be nice not to have to start at zero all over again. If each generation continues to start at zero and spend 20 years getting to some point and then not let the next generation start from there and go on, everyone keeps starting over.
So, the maps are exciting, but after some time seem so general that ok, they lead to the caballos (we think), but that is 30 miles of territory. will take 20 years and not even scratch that vast area.
who has Willies or Docs map with coordinates?. that is what we need.
Till then, i study the maps, i read the stories, i study and walk the terrain, hoping that something will click with something i see one day. I love it.
wr

Thing is, how do you know which stuff to start with? If you use bad info, and start down that wrong road, then it may take you more than twenty years just to get back to where you started. It may be quicker to start at square one. I promise you any shortcuts that could have been taken, were taken a long time ago. Doesn't everybody want that foot in the door?

What I will say about the maps NP has provided is that if authentic, there is definitely something to it. I don't typically start trying to decipher treasure maps until I have at least vetted them SOMEWHAT. I did spend some time on Willie's Map. I have gotten a few things figured out that are really not too difficult. I have posted what I am so far willing to share. There is ONE thing that tells me the map is authentic. Not saying exactly what that is yet.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Thing is, how do you know which stuff to start with? If you use bad info, and start down that wrong road, then it may take you more than twenty years just to get back to where you started. It may be quicker to start at square one. I promise you any shortcuts that could have been taken, were taken a long time ago. Doesn't everybody want that foot in the door?

What I will say about the maps NP has provided is that if authentic, there is definitely something to it. I don't typically start trying to decipher treasure maps until I have at least vetted them SOMEWHAT. I did spend some time on Willie's Map. I have gotten a few things figured out that are really not too difficult. I have posted what I am so far willing to share. There is ONE thing that tells me the map is authentic. Not saying exactly what that is yet.

Mike

These "revealed" treasure maps - think about them folks. Not as a bug-eyed treasure hunter, but as a normal thinker. First, if such an "authentic map" ever existed in the first place, what circumstances could possibly exist that allowed the holder of said map to lose control of it, and further, compel the next guy in line to release the chart into the public domain for guys like us to then "discover"? Lucky us! Well, the Spanish Prisoner scam has fooled suckers for 500 years and counting - still surfacing today in newer forms. I guess getting excited about "real treasure maps" has the same effect on us (getting rich), except that it doesn't cost you anything except time.

Ya got the "Peralta Stones" in AZ, ya got the "Noss Map" in NM, and others elsewhere. Are there things on these maps that can be correlated to the area's terrain, previous findings there, details from "legends", true historic events, etc.? Sure there are - think reverse engineering. Think hoax. Do you really think people like the Tumlinson family and their spokesmen, or the Noss family and their spokesmen, et al, would "release" true information leading to vast riches? Come one, come all? Are these guys doing us all a great favor, or are they just sending us in circles? I guess the results speak for themselves after lo these many years. Well, nothing wrong with hiking remote canyons and dreaming - that's for sure. Just think about what you believe and why you believe it.

 

[whiskeyrat]

Does anyone know approx where the Holden Ranch was in 1929? Its the ranch where Willy was staying when he found the cave.
I know its now under Caballo Reservoir (since 1938) , but north/south wise was it aligned with Apache Gap Canyon? Bat Cave Canyon? Burbank Canyon? Granite canyon?
thanks for any info.
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

What I will say about the maps NP has provided is that if authentic, there is definitely something to it. I don't typically start trying to decipher treasure maps until I have at least vetted them SOMEWHAT. I did spend some time on Willie's Map. I have gotten a few things figured out that are really not too difficult. I have posted what I am so far willing to share. There is ONE thing that tells me the map is authentic. Not saying exactly what that is yet.
Mike

Mike: speaking of Willies map, i recently reviewed your interpretation of when it was being debated which direction on the map was east and west.
When you posted his map and a pic of the area you thought it represented, you stated it showed the 2 volcanos and the malpais lava flow. speaking of the black "cones" with fingers as the lava flows.
When i looked at that image I saw the "bloody hands" murual that was near Victorio peak not valcanoes.
Not that it would change the overal direction of the map or anything, but just my thought.
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

Hey RDT3:
I just finished re reading Frank Dobies book Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver. Its amazing how many times Tayopa has been found.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Whisky rat, It fits the map in Dobies book 100% - perfect. Plus there are many other bits of data that are correct. I often wonder where he found that map, although it apparantly shows that it exits to the north, while in actuallity it is to the south via The Arroyo caudalosa. This has confused many a seeker.

 

[whiskeyrat]

RDt3: Amazing. so didnt Dobie say he had located the 17? mines and assayed them and did not find much? Although some could not be fully explored due to cave ins.
How many of the 17 have you explored?
I assume you are attempting to find and open the main treasure vault?
From your posts you have found the vault and are awaiting govt permission to open?
wr

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Whiskey rat, On the deposit, due to financial problems, I now have partners who are impatient and unwise. So we are actively trying to find the entry. As I have mentioned, it is remarkedly similar to the caballos, but of a far lesser area. So you can easily see why NP's lil map was enormously important to me.

As far as Tayopa goes , I lack development Capital, my primary concern at the monent, plus present physical problems, which gives my naive partners an advantage. ( I haven't heard of the progresss up there for months, am I rich or ----- )

Incidentally, Dobie never was at Tayopa.

On the 17 mines, most are very similar to rabbit holes , they aparantly were working the hi-grade deposits. The extremely rich hyydrothermal deposits.

Tayopa itself was basically an enormusly rich area and they were just stoping (two, one above the other)

 

[whiskeyrat]

RDT3: I would love to come down there and dig for you.
it must be really hard for you to not be there after all the effort and years you put into this search.

I wonder if there were rich hydrothermal deposits in the caballos?
It has always seamed to me that to accumulate the extensive amounts of gold that were accumulated by the Spaniards would take deposits far richer than anything the prospectors in the "gold rush days" every found.
wr

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Rat, many of those bars came from Tayopa and other clandestne mines in Sonora- Chihuehue. Durango. and Simaloa

I doubt that there is another Hydrothermal deposit anywhere like that at Tayopa, it has hardly been touched

First picture is the intrusion, 2nd is the faulting N-S, showing the circilar faulting at the battom 3rd is my version of what happened.








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[whiskeyrat]

RDT3:
again amazing.
This has probly been discussed before, forgive my "newness", but when and why would they take the gold to the caballos area to stash it?
Why load up mule trains and make that trek to hide gold in a cave or vault?? During what years?
Not saying they didnt, I truly hope they did, but why?

wr

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi whisky rat, I have covered this before. It was the most convenient way, via El Rio del Norte, to a waiting Jesuit ship for transhipment to Rome. The infrequent Jesuit ship would anchor near Mattamoros.

The Caballos were a depository at aprox. !/3 of the way to Mattamores It was a faster loading and quicker way for the trans shipment to send it downstream, In the meantime it was a nice quiet storage site...

I have no idea when they started using the Caballos as a storage, previously I had imagined that their method was to send it through the mission sites, which were apox. 1 day apart, and were serviced by Mules and burros.







rome.