DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[whiskeyrat]

SO MUCH INFO.
SO LITTLE TIME.
GOTTA GET STARTED.

 

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[Crowfriend]

Amazing info Rog.
It does not seem likely I will ever go there, but I sure wish the best for anyone that does.

All I really care about is the impact on the family Snow. I sure know the pain of losing family members and loved ones. Empathy and sympathy here. It's all just sunlight and shadows. I hope it brings a measure of peace to unload all this.

We have, in common, experience with electricity. I was not the sufferer of evil men, I was struck by a bolt of lightning a few years ago. No lingering effects on the body or soul, just empathy. Peace to you, to all.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

DTH:
can I go too?
wr

Sure whiskeyrat, I wouldnt mind at all, But it would be Casa's call. When you where in Aniamis, did you hunt those mountains? that looks like a nice range to hunt.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Ok
stop here for the Day

Let me know if anything I've Posted , has any Educational Value for any of you .

Maybe I don't exist either .
Enjoy the Day Folks

Yes, it has been educational for me. Iam all fired up for a field trip. I feel like a kid on Christmas eve. waiting for Santa to show. When i get home from work, this is the first thread i check.

 

[Quinoa]

I'm interested in how you came to know about the numbers 123 ( which is in the tetragrammaton (pentacle) and is used in witchcraft and the like) and how you came to know about the term "Stele" or Egyptian information stone?

 

[whiskeyrat]

View attachment 1351056

On the Map Rock is painted 4 numbers as 1732

this is not a date , it's the increment of distance to the vault as shown

Location of Strike Mark
The Map Rock
The Vault
and direction of La Rue's Two Room Cave he used as his Main Residence

But , he didn't exist
how is all this Possible ?

Goodness

When i try to open your attachments, I just get: "invalid link" if you followed a valid link, contact the site administrator".
can anyone else open Rog's attachments?
whats up?
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

Sure whiskeyrat, I wouldnt mind at all, But it would be Casa's call. When you where in Aniamis, did you hunt those mountains? that looks like a nice range to hunt.

DTH:
Yes, i have been all over the Animas range. Many, Many, Many old mines to explore I have been in most of them. The most impressive i have seen anywhere is in Ready Pay Gulch (3/4 of the way up). Beautiful 40 foot tall headstock still intact built from hand hewn timbers about 16 inches square.
You can see the headstock on google earth it is so big.
You can drive a good quad to within about 1/2 mile, then hike from there. well worth the hike. Other mines higher up also very cool.
let me know when we leave.

wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

Ok
stop here for the Day

Let me know if anything I've Posted , has any Educational Value for any of you .

Maybe I don't exist either .
Enjoy the Day Folks

Oh yeah.
Rog this is priceless info.
Its all going in a file and I will be checking out every site I can until the govt turns me back.
Its becoming more about info and history and less about gold to me as I go forward on this adventure.
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

Quote me from 2003 , as above copy pasted

" Therefore, I ask that the readers of these post, please refrain from any attempt to shoot arrows. I give you these truths, as a gift, not as a spring board for others personal attacks steming from the glorified egos and self agrandisement of those who wish to push to the top of solving the Mystery.""""

~~~~~~~ Why is it , I always have to ask for Respect , why is that ? and why is it always that the Gift Given is disrespected as well ? ~~~~~

TM2:
NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.
wr

 

[sdcfia]

Recently , I received a question on Knights Templar connection to these Vaults

years ago on a forum ( 2003 )
I stated that Oak Island was a Knights Templar Vault

That forum was promoting it as a Pirate Treasure
Today
The same people Promote it as Knights Templar ... >etc etc.

For the truth seekers out there: I'm surprised people are still interested in this rumor. Whereas there were certainly Europeans in Nova Scotia in Pre Columbian days - quite possibly including Henry Sinclair and his people - the action was elsewhere in NS, not OI. The Oak Island stories were a treasure-hunting scam from the very beginning, featuring characters such as the LDS founder Joseph Smith. See, treasure scams are not a modern phenomena, but have a long history in many locations. The following website contains a great deal of fascinating documented history on Oak Island and ought to serve as a template for folks who want to research historical rumors. By the way, it seems like the famous "Money Pit" was originally just an old well on the island.

The Oak Island Legend

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

DTH:
Yes, i have been all over the Animas range. Many, Many, Many old mines to explore I have been in most of them. The most impressive i have seen anywhere is in Ready Pay Gulch (3/4 of the way up). Beautiful 40 foot tall headstock still intact built from hand hewn timbers about 16 inches square.
You can see the headstock on google earth it is so big.
You can drive a good quad to within about 1/2 mile, then hike from there. well worth the hike. Other mines higher up also very cool.
let me know when we leave.

wr

Wow, that does sound like a nice range.I bet there are hundreds of caches there.Iam gonna have to look at that range again on google earth. If i find some cache sites on google earth, ill send you some of the photos if your interested? If i hit it here, I would be able to have the time to hunt with you,that would be cool. I wouldn't mind having someone to hunt with.

 

[nmth]

Great Research

Great Research.

If you can read Espanol Mejicano, then "Siete Leyendas de Chihuahua" is a good additional confirmation of what you are saying.

Nonetheless, there has been much more than one "Chato" or "El Chato", as far as a name goes.

Counter to that: I have not been able to find any direct non-treasure reference to a 1600's El Chato.

But counter to that, the nice waybill in original period Spanish script in the front of Fowler's quite rare book has just such a reference.

!Quein Sabe!

Lots of lost signs on the ground. Scan those old photos before they are lost forever! That's my mission (not having a time machine!)

Incidentally, I have a waybill for some El Chato caches down South at Pilares, as well.

I suppose that a bandit might get around and cache things here and there. There's also maybe more than one El Chato over the years.

I have probably 20 different hand-written El Chato waybills in various English translations and some original Spanish. Most are either Caballos or Organs.

Caballos have been named as such for a very long time. Older than Pike, as one mentioned, IIRC, but I'm always open to better evidence. David Rumsey's map site may confirm. El Perillo is a name associated with several localities in the SW, as well as a tribe (Apaches Perillos) at one time. Main reference is to Point of Rocks and Agua del Perillo where the cattle mess is now as you go up the Jornada from the Upham exit with the stupid new signs.

The newer El Chato operated out of Babonollaba.

Keep it up!

It's time here to remind folks of some proven facts. Facts are nasty problems when it comes to treasure legends, but what do you prefer to believe - the treasure magazines or your own lyin' eyes?

There are many versions of the famous El Chato gallows confession directing searchers to the Caballo Mountains where he allegedly hid his bandit loot. I don't know when and by whom this waybill was first cooked up, but all of them are fraudulent copies of each other.

The authentic man, Pedro Navarez ("El Chato"), was was a noted and well-documented bandit active in Chihuahua, Mexico, in the early 1800's, not in the 1600's. Much folklore surrounds his memory as a Robin Hood-type character who cached robbery proceeds all over the Satevo-Parral-Delicias country south of Chihuahua city. Reports of his death are highly romanticized in Mexico, but the waybills to his treasures were apparently disclosed by his daughter in the 1840s and consisted mainly of coins buried in clay pots on several ranches. There is little reason to believe he was ever in New Mexico, where the pickings for roadside bandits were very slim along the Rio Grande, especially compared to the riches available in Chihuahua at the time. Somebody stole El Chato's life story and tried to apply it to New Mexico, where nobody knew the truth. Here, read about him for yourself:
La leyenda siempre viva del Chato Nevárez

El Real de Chihuahua

Suspenso y Terror de Chihuahua There's plenty more you can find on your own - if you care about the truth, that is.

By the way, speaking of facts, the 1650 El Chato waybill directs one to the "Caballo Mountains", north of El Paso on the Rio Grande. But did you know that those mountains were named by Zebulon Pike during the winter of 1806-07? Before that, on an 1804 map, the range was called "Las Peneulas". Before that, in 1771, they were known as "Sierra el Perillo." If someone's going to dream up a good treasure story, it's a good idea for him to check the facts before he starst.

So, Roger, do yourself a favor and lose your El Chato embellishments and stick to Padre LaRue. Oh, by the way, the alleged French priest LaRue is totally absent from the Franciscan records of their operations on the Mexican northern frontier. It's as if such a person never existed. Except in the treasure magazines, that is?

 

[nmth]

You are correct-ish, depending. North of Burbank canyon (i.e., not uphill from the spring, go NORTH) There's a tree there with "Doc" cut into it. Picture in Treasure Tracer's Gold book, I think. Faded now relative to the '60's photos. Hackberry trees below Gordon's cabin by the Granite uplift are all long gone. Photos of the old days made it look real nice there. "Oro", classic symbols, etc. were on those trees. Glad you like the Hachitas, too. Found a Gold vein there with visible free gold just a-baking under the sun still with a chisel still in the vein. Too much work, though. Very hard to get to and crushing enough quartz is a killer. Graves in the southern pass. University folks dug up dino stuff with skin imprints a few years back between there and Playas.

 

[sdcfia]

Great Research.

If you can read Espanol Mejicano, then "Siete Leyendas de Chihuahua" is a good additional confirmation of what you are saying.

Nonetheless, there has been much more than one "Chato" or "El Chato", as far as a name goes.

Counter to that: I have not been able to find any direct non-treasure reference to a 1600's El Chato.

But counter to that, the nice waybill in original period Spanish script in the front of Fowler's quite rare book has just such a reference.

!Quein Sabe!

Lots of lost signs on the ground. Scan those old photos before they are lost forever! That's my mission (not having a time machine!)

Incidentally, I have a waybill for some El Chato caches down South at Pilares, as well.

I suppose that a bandit might get around and cache things here and there. There's also maybe more than one El Chato over the years.

I have probably 20 different hand-written El Chato waybills in various English translations and some original Spanish. Most are either Caballos or Organs.

Caballos have been named as such for a very long time. Older than Pike, as one mentioned, IIRC, but I'm always open to better evidence. David Rumsey's map site may confirm. El Perillo is a name associated with several localities in the SW, as well as a tribe (Apaches Perillos) at one time. Main reference is to Point of Rocks and Agua del Perillo where the cattle mess is now as you go up the Jornada from the Upham exit with the stupid new signs.

The newer El Chato operated out of Babonollaba.

Keep it up!

Re El Chato. It all has to do with deception, misdirection and most importantly, human nature, IMO. I would be very interested to know the date when the original "El Chato north of Paso del Norte" waybill surfaced. My guess is the 1860s at the earliest. That will tell us when the treasure cache legends were released to a gullible public. It's my opinion that there likely is a large cache(s) located somewhere in the Franklin Mountains/Organ Mountains/Caballo Mountains region, but the information has been corrupted by false information contained in the waybill - designed to be vague and misleading enough to send people away from the true cache site, thus securing the genuine location(s). Yes, there were likely copycat El Chatos, but the original bandit is the man described in the links provided in Post # 2903. There was no El Chato terrorizing New Mexico in the 1600s. Regarding the caches, I suspect they exist, but where, when and by whom they were hidden remains unsubstantiated, smoke-screened by many rumors.

Here's Urrutia and Laflora's 1771 report. Note location #6, where today's Caballos are referred to as El Perillo Sierra, with the high point in the range named El Muerto. Yes, the range was likely named to honor the valuable springs at the south end of the Jornada del Muerto. I have found no earlier mention of the range, but am always looking. http://atlas.nmhum.org/pdfs/Urrutia1771RioAbajo.pdf

 

[Quinoa]

Quote : " I'm interested in how you came to know about the numbers 123

Not sure what you mean about how I came to know about that ,

for it wasn't in any of my Material , are you reading something that you feel might be my material ??

I so Corn Fused

Here, post #2951






from my post on Oakislandtreasure.uk


Copy Pasted Text of my Post from 2003 at that forum

~~~~~~~~~~ Copy of initial revelation as to Knights Templar Connection to Oak Island ~~~~~~~

by hippie on Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:08 pm Gentlemen
What Oak Island has is a depository of Knights Templar Articles.
The Treasure is obtained by entering the shafts and or tunnels.
The entrance to these tunnels will be found through the leylines of the Golden mean.
Stones, with drill holes have been found on the island.
These are your increment stones.
The holes will be a certain depth
each inch = 1ft.
If the hole in the stone is 12 inches deep , then the increment is 1 inch per foot.
Measure the distance to the next stone, note how many inches you come up with, say you come up with 123, this means your diagonal line from your southeast corner to your northeast corner will equal 123 feet, this will be the long line of the ley line of the golden mean, You will be looking to set a golden rectangle by this increment.
Where the ley lines intersect on that rectangle, is one of your entrances to the tunnels that will safely get you into one of the vaults.
Next, you must begin to arc the golden spiral, where the spiral cross's the ley lines, there you will find more entrance's to more vaults.
Your next step is to leyout the golden triangle and the Golden circle, remembering that it is 1/3 of the circle that is the portion you are looking for, note that where the lines of the triangle cross the bisect of the circle is your next entrance.
Perhaps it is best, that you take an ariel photo, mark the locale of each stone with the holes that have been found. overlay the photo with clear plastic, set you degrees at 36 and 76 for the ley lines, and see what you come up with.
This is the KEY to the chest.
A study of Pythagorean Geometry, fibbonacci number sequence, and the golden mean would help.
The date on the stone of 1704 is not a date, it is an increment.
this is part of the esoteric knowledge used for these burials.
The alchemy symbols for such are in the area.
The Hippie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~ End Copied Text ~~~~~~~~~


Also what about the "Stele" term as well please, I'm not confronting you , I'd just like to know for my own reasons.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Yeah ?? one of us anyway.

 

[sdcfia]

So , El Chato never existed

same with La Rue

is that right Sdfcia ?

Recall a member here : Stevenm

I loaned him a video

it came back to me with a bunch of footage edited out

No problem
I have other copies

by why the edit ?

1. El Chato did exist. Read Post #2903 and its Mexican website links. There is no mention of an El Chato raiding El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro in the 1600s, and the Spanish military and the Santa Fe governors kept very good records.

2. There is no record of a Padre LaRue abandoning his Chihuahua post and moving his flock to New Mexico, and the Franciscans kept very good records too. By the way, the Franciscans totally dominated New Mexico beginning with Marcos de Niza's expedition, and the Jesuits had Arizona later until their expulsion. No intrusions were allowed on either side by the others. This one fact alone puts a black cloud over the truth of several New Mexico "Jesuit" treasure rumors.

3. I agree there are likely large caches in several New Mexico and Arizona locations, but the legends that describe them are mostly baloney.

4. I've respected, defended and given you the benefit of the doubt many times for many years Roger, but when you publicly accuse me of something I didn't do, it's "game over" buddy.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

SDC, ya mean no Jesuit depositories on the long trip trip to Rome >

sniff, what about NP's lil map ? Yer ruining me, and my genius As fo Rog's claims -------------

 

[markmar]

sdcfia

You wrote about Franciscans and Jesuits : " No intrusions were allowed on either side by the others."

I believe in the beginning of their " mission " in the New Spain , they had not borders but they had missions in the same area . Maybe later they separated their missions/churches in regions .
One of the Tayopa maps shows clearly how they lived together, maybe in a common interest . Was that common interest which keep them close and " allowed intrusion " in the Tayopa's precious metals case ?

In the map , Guardiana Jesuita is in the same facility with the Mision Franciscana .

 

[sdcfia]

SDC, ya mean no Jesuit depositories on the long trip trip to Rome >

sniff, what about NP's lil map ? Yer ruining me, and my genius As fo Rog's claims -------------

Sorry, Don Jose. You can backtrack the Jesuits till the cows come home and you'll find no activity by them in New Mexico until the 19th century. It was Franciscan territory, plain and simple. No churches, no missions, no camps, no secret agreements with the King or the Apaches. As we've discussed before, your Jesuit-Caballo theory suffers from several fatal flaws, none of which could have been covered up in the documents, traditions, records and histories (written and oral) of the Spanish military, the New Mexico governors, the Franciscan church, the Apache nation or the local histories in an area encompassing the El Paso-Janos-Santa Rita territory.

I have no idea what you have found in Mexico that relates to the Jesuits, but trying to patch it into the Noss legends based on that suspicious map is a waste of your time, IMO. I do believe there are caches in the Franklin-Organ-Caballo mountains region, but IMO, wherever they came from, it wasn't the Jesuits.