Does anyone really Believe they Melt silver & gold Coins ?

[jeff of pa]

[h=1]'Pawn Stars' Shop May Have Melted Stolen $50,000 Coin Collection ?[/h]they actually would melt a 1903 St. Gaudens $20 gold piece

Personally I think it's an Excuse to not follow the Law on Stolen goods


A man whose $50,000 coin collection was first stolen, then hocked, cannot recover it from Las Vegas' famous "Pawn Stars" pawn shop. Reason: The hock shop claims it melted the coins down.

According to a criminal complaint filed by the State of Nevada in Clark County Justice Court, a coin collection valued by its owner, David Walters, at up to $50,000, was stolen from Walters' Las Vegas home in November 2013 by Walters' niece, Jennifer Beckman.
Court documents say Walters' collection--kept in a bag hidden under a dresser--contained such rarities as a 1903 St. Gaudens $20 gold piece and Silver Morgan coins from the 1880s. It also contained contemporary 1 oz. American Buffalo gold pieces.

Pawn Stars Pawn Shop May Have Melted Stolen Coins - ABC News

 

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[Hillbilly Joe]

I think it is possible, not very probable, but good excuse to end up with gold and not a loss because of those pesky laws they are to follow. I know some cities require them to hold onto a purchase over a certain value a set amount of time, but it mostly varies so much by city, county and state that if you educate yourself, you find the best place to fence stolen items. Sad to hear coins like that would have really been melted.

 

[jeff of pa]

yea same with the 1 oz. American Buffalo gold pieces.
not really collectable by real coin collectors, but still are minted with dates like silver eagles
and command a premium on the open market.


Silver Morgan coins , again not exactly an unlimited supply out there , even in good condition,
can be sold for a premium to new collectors.

My guess the Pawn Stars are only on the hook for what they paid
as long as they can't produce the coins.

& since they probably paid 20% of their value, They still come out ahead
when they sell them.

They probably cracked open the cases to hide any possible ID

 

[jim4silver]

US gold coins get melted ALL the time, IF they are in crappy condition. I don't believe any pawn shop will be on the hook if they followed the law (held the stuff the required time, etc), but I am only aware of this for my state. No way they can make the pawn shop pay the "victim" if they were "good faith buyers" and followed the law with respect to holding times and such.

Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[Dave44]

Send coins to a smelter and they will not get melted down unless they are really in bad shape. Those coins are still intact, the question is, where. The cops need to ask for the paper trail. Way too fishy.

 

[danloop]

I really doubt they are going to melt a gold coin worth more than the gold content unless they need the money right away.

 

[jim4silver]

I wonder why anyone feels much sympathy for a collector who keeps $50K worth of gold/silver in a bag under the dresser. Oh yeah, I forgot, if he keeps it in a safe deposit box the gov will steal it. Looks like a friendly relative beat them to it. He should have at least keep it in a crappy $150 safe and/or not put it in a place where thief relatives can find it.

Even if the pawn company didn't melt them why should they be on the hook/bear the loss here? Are they supposed to have every customer submit to a lie detector test when they sell something in their store? Not sure how it applies to pawn shops, but very important legal concepts to consider are good faith buyer and bona fide purchaser.

The person who should bear the loss should be the thief number 1, then the "collector" who keeps his stash under a dresser. The pawn shop should not even be on the list if they followed the rules.

Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[Dave44]

I wonder why anyone feels much sympathy for a collector who keeps $50K worth of gold/silver in a bag under the dresser. Oh yeah, I forgot, if he keeps it in a safe deposit box the gov will steal it. Looks like a friendly relative beat them to it. He should have at least keep it in a crappy $150 safe and/or not put it in a place where thief relatives can find it. Even if the pawn company didn't melt them why should they be on the hook/bear the loss here? Are they supposed to have every customer submit to a lie detector test when they sell something in their store? Not sure how it applies to pawn shops, but very important legal concepts to consider are good faith buyer and bona fide purchaser. The person who should bear the loss should be the thief number 1, then the "collector" who keeps his stash under a dresser. The pawn shop should not even be on the list if they followed the rules. Just my opinion. Jim

I kind of agree. And normally I come down on the side of the business, No way they should be required to take a loss.......BUT there is a real coverup going on here. There is simply NO way that pawn shop did not know the worth of a 20$ gold piece and sent it away for much less than it's worth. That is willful deception! If they told the truth that would be one thing, but I don't like being lied to?

 

[jeff of pa]

I kind of agree. And normally I come down on the side of the business, No way they should be required to take a loss.......BUT there is a real coverup going on here. There is simply NO way that pawn shop did not know the worth of a 20$ gold piece and sent it away for much less than it's worth. That is willful deception! If they told the truth that would be one thing, but I don't like being lied to?

Correct this is my whole Problem. this pawn shop above all others advertises on their Show
how reliable they are with values & paying fair Prices.
They would not & I'd wager Did not send the coins listed in the story for "Melt"

Perhaps if it were a bank bag of silver roosies, but even then. Ebay would be better.

they are in the business of making a profit,
Not breaking even.

 

[skeeterd]

I didn't think there was such a thing as a "1903 St. Gaudens" $20 gold piece.

 

[jeff of pa]

I didn't think there was such a thing as a "1903 St. Gaudens" $20 gold piece.

LOL Good Catch ! I didn't even look either an Error by the writer or Editor.

 

[Dave44]

I didn't think there was such a thing as a "1903 St. Gaudens" $20 gold piece.

Many people have no idea. I assume first they meant a 20$ gold coin. Many people might swear they had a 1929 Morgan silver dollar and they actually had a Peace.

 

[jeff of pa]

Many people have no idea. I assume first they meant a 20$ gold coin. Many people might swear they had a 1929 Morgan silver dollar and they actually had a Peace.

Yes I've seen people refer to the Peace dollar as a Morgan

I haven't looked to see if Morgan created the Peace Dollar or Not.

I am taking for granted the Double eagle in Question was a St. Gaudens though, & that they just got the date wrong. (the '23 looks like a rare date)
but you never know, could have been an O3-S Liberty

 

[Marchas45]

Well if some one comes to me and I owned a business, wanting to sell a $50,000 coin collection, the best business practice is to ask, "where did you get it?" You hear him on his show asking that question all the time. why? Well if they are out of State like a lot of his sellers are. All he has to do is call that State and find out if there are any big losses concerning thefts, it's his job and security.
I would say he was full of bullcrap as the Numismatic value is worth more than the melt value to his business. He got a good deal so his lips where sealed. Lol

 

[jim4silver]

Well if some one comes to me and I owned a business, wanting to sell a $50,000 coin collection, the best business practice is to ask, "where did you get it?" You hear him on his show asking that question all the time. why? Well if they are out of State like a lot of his sellers are. All he has to do is call that State and find out if there are any big losses concerning thefts, it's his job and security. I would say he was full of bullcrap as the Numismatic value is worth more than the melt value to his business. He got a good deal so his lips where sealed. Lol

There is no way any business such as a pawn shop or such could call other states to investigate like that. Even if that state said yes, how to know if those coins are the ones stolen? Talk to pawn owners and they scream they are already burdened with such holding periods. Imagine buying a bunch of gold jewelry and have to hold it 30 days but the price starts tanking on day 2 after you bought it. Funny that most here don't seem to mention the crook or dumba$$ who keeps his PMs in such a slipshod manner.

I guess I should not be surprised when I see in general how our society has become (general lack of personal responsibility and need to blame others).

Those blaming the pawn shop remind me of this lady from this somewhat dated newsvideo:

Women With 15 Kids: "Somebody needs to be held accountable, and they need to pay." | The Daily Sheeple

Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[YumaMarc]

After watching Pawn Stars for years, this whole thing sounds exactly like something "The Old Man" would do. He sees the coins, his eyes get bigger than the biggest coin there, he grabs the bag and says, "Hey, I sent them out for melt". But, of course, being a "senile old fart", he somehow misplaced the paperwork and forgot where he sent them.

 

[Dave44]

There is no way any business such as a pawn shop or such could call other states to investigate like that. Even if that state said yes, how to know if those coins are the ones stolen? Talk to pawn owners and they scream they are already burdened with such holding periods. Imagine buying a bunch of gold jewelry and have to hold it 30 days but the price starts tanking on day 2 after you bought it. Funny that most here don't seem to mention the crook or dumba$$ who keeps his PMs in such a slipshod manner. I guess I should not be surprised when I see in general how our society has become (general lack of personal responsibility and need to blame others). Those blaming the pawn shop remind me of this lady from this somewhat dated newsvideo: Women With 15 Kids: "Somebody needs to be held accountable, and they need to pay." | The Daily Sheeple Just my opinion. Jim

I don't know about slipshod, and calling him a crook for having them anywhere in HIS house is a bit of a stretch. My house is my safe. It's not really a public throughway.

The one that should be prosecuted is the one that took them. The way I heard it they were sold piecemeal so it would have been hard for the Pawn shop to be proactive about it at all. Where you and I diverge is the flimsy excuse that they were melted. I say again,, it stinks.

 

[jim4silver]

I don't know about slipshod, and calling him a crook for having them anywhere in HIS house is a bit of a stretch. My house is my safe. It's not really a public throughway. The one that should be prosecuted is the one that took them. The way I heard it they were sold piecemeal so it would have been hard for the Pawn shop to be proactive about it at all. Where you and I diverge is the flimsy excuse that they were melted. I say again,, it stinks.

Apparently Dave you failed to see the word OR I placed between the word crook and dumba$$. I was not calling the dumba$$ a crook.


And yes, keeping $50K worth of PMs under your dresser when anyone else has access (like the crook did here) is being a dumba$$ in my opinion.

I don't know why I waste my time.

 

[jeff of pa]

I don't know about slipshod, and calling him a crook for having them anywhere in HIS house is a bit of a stretch. My house is my safe. It's not really a public throughway. The one that should be prosecuted is the one that took them. The way I heard it they were sold piecemeal so it would have been hard for the Pawn shop to be proactive about it at all. Where you and I diverge is the flimsy excuse that they were melted. I say again,, it stinks.

Correct .

plus Comparing coins to Jewelry don't Fly with me.
Most jewelry only raises with Gold & silver ,
Plus to get true value Melt it is Necessary to
remove impurities. 18K, 14K ,10K, all different
if they were talking Jewelry, I would not have batted an Eye.

Collector Coins, whether Bulk or Encapsulated , have value above melt to many
collectors & investors.

I still believe the Pawn Stars saying they were melted or even suggesting it
is an out & out Lie

if they said they were moved Forward & they don't have serial #'s
I would say yes, this is possible.

 

[jim4silver]

Correct . plus Comparing coins to Jewelry don't Fly with me. Most jewelry only raises with Gold & silver , Plus to get true value Melt it is Necessary to remove impurities. 18K, 14K ,10K, all different if they were talking Jewelry, I would not have batted an Eye. Collector Coins, whether Bulk or Encapsulated , have value above melt to many collectors & investors. I still believe the Pawn Stars saying they were melted or even suggesting it is an out & out Lie if they said they were moved Forward & they don't have serial #'s I would say yes, this is possible.

Don't know if they lied or not. But just for this argument I will say they did. If they showed the cops that they still had the PMs, the cops would have taken them and they would have taken the loss (although they could have gone after the crook in theory for reimbursement). Having said that, would anyone here (if they owned a pawnshop) have given back the PMs if they still held them (even though you as the pawnshop paid the crook we'll say relative fair value)?

To those who say yes, I say BS.

Just my opinion.

Jim