England in Hot Water over Odyssey

[4theMoney]

Spain is turning into an "Ambulance Chaser". Why would they be challenging such a fine point of law unless they were either A) worried about the eventual outcome ...or B) Are trying to change policy?
Just curious

 

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[ivan salis]

why do lawyers argue such fine points of law ?--easy they bill by the hour and anything that might even posssiblly be in their favor -- or that could by "we got so many legal points for us vs some many of their legal points" ---or---- by sheer general "bulk of legal weight " in the overall arguement assist their case they want.

"the devil is in the details" (read and understand the impact of the frickin fine print in lawyers terms ). --good lawyers write "fine print" ---great lawyers know how to twist it to their advantage.

 

[Larsmed]

Where are the international law grads on this forum when we need them!?

LOL!

Larry

 

[ScubaDude]

I was involved in air cargo in a previous life. Ivan's interpretation is consistent with what I saw. We moved a lot of weird things all over the globe.

You need to take the mental picture of seals & "sealed containers" off the table. Freight comes in many forms besides standard shipping containers, especially air freight.

The freight in this instance didn't originate in Gib, it originated elsewhere, came off a foreign flag boat as cargo, and was trans shipped on a jet to the US. It was a transshipment. Did someone underestimate the value on the customs Dec form? I wouldn't want my name on it. Does it happen? yes. Is it the official's job in Gib to question it? No. That issue lies with US customs.

Ossy - Sorry, no one is going to quarantine a clay pipe or pottery shard. It isn't organic once it's been fired.

How much longer do we really need the rock throwing shenanigans surrounding this deal, it reminds me of grade school behavior. Can we move things along now?

 

[truckinbutch]

truckinbutch,

Thanks for that, but I don't think the barrels of coins were in a sealed container. Did you ever pick up a load of stuff not in a sealed container or truck and transport that across the country without it having to be examined by Customs? And who has the right to seal a container? is it the captain of any ship? I would be surprised if that was the case.

Mariner

Many ,MANY times in my outlaw days .....YUP ! And that's for another thread . I only mentioned what can be legally done . Other folks have explained how lax legal entities are .

 

[mariner]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the recent posts. It sounds as if truckinbutch would have a few tales that would keep you listening for quite a while.

Hope everybody in the States had a great 4th July. I know I did ... BBQ, followed by a great, rousing concert with all the big patriotic numbers, followed by a terrific fireworks show ... and I'm a Brit! Rumo(u)r has it we came in second in that particular encounter.

Mariner

 

[ivan salis]

lawyers never speak their minds on legal matters unless "paid" to do so. --- to hear what they "think" about a legal matter --- cost you money.

thanks truckinbutch and scuba dude for helping me "explain" a bit about "international" shipping procedures and "customs" . --- many folks have vastly mistaken ideals about it. ( vs what occurs in the "real world of cargo shipping" )

 

[truckinbutch]

lawyers never speak their minds on legal matters unless "paid" to do so. --- to hear what they "think" about a legal matter --- cost you money.

thanks truckinbutch and scuba dude for helping me "explain" a bit about "international" shipping procedures and "customs" . --- many folks have vastly mistaken ideals about it. ( vs what occurs in the "real world of cargo shipping" )

Ivan , I never hesitate to help a gentleman I admire for his professionalism and experience .
In US ports only : What part of 1% of contraband do you think the FED'S find ?
Jim

 

[truckinbutch]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the recent posts. It sounds as if truckinbutch would have a few tales that would keep you listening for quite a while.

Hope everybody in the States had a great 4th July. I know I did ... BBQ, followed by a great, rousing concert with all the big patriotic numbers, followed by a terrific fireworks show ... and I'm a Brit! Rumo(u)r has it we came in second in that particular encounter.

Mariner

C'mon over and I'll share stories ,BBQ , beer at your preferred temperature , and the rest of our hospitality . Probably shouldn't post stories in a public forum . Not certain of the statute of limitations .
........That altercation you mentioned that occurred a couple hundred plus years ago invoved people other than us .
Since then we have supported each other admirably in many conflicts .
Come visit if you get the chance , Jim

 

[mariner]

tib,

Sounds good. I like your part of the country, and I might even have a story or two that you would enjoy.

I think of Britain as America's oldest enemy and closest ally.

Best wishes,

Mariner

 

[lucky d]

this thread, like all treasure hunting threads, was cool reading ....i have only one question ? why does'nt spain search for/recover all of "their" lost treasure for themselves ? if it's so important to them, why don't they go out and get it ? is it because they have written it off years ago, hundreds of years ago ? just curious...for all i know spain may have a treasure hunting fleet out there right now ? hh

 

[ivan salis]

simple --it cost money to look --- why should spain spend its own money -- it much easier to let others do the spending of their own cash and do all the "dirty work" --then after all the spending and work is done ---spain shows up and goes ---well folks legally its "mine" ---all mine --- now gimme --- thus getting it for "free" with no effort or expense (other than lawyers) on spains part-- its ---- good ole blood sucking leech 101 --

 

[aquanut]

I've said it before... It's all about the money. Spain wouldn't have said a word if there was no treasure recovered. Odyssey wasn't required to answer to anyone for recovering something from the bottom of the ocean in international waters.

 

[PDJ]

I think the moderator of this board should change the title of the thread since clearly England is not in hot water over the legal means by which Odyssey exported the cargo in question.

 

[wreckdiver1715]

I think the moderator of this board should change the title of the thread since clearly England is not in hot water over the legal means by which Odyssey exported the cargo in question.

Thanks for the suggestion. And clearly England is not in any "hot water" since everything was by the book. However, this is Ossy's thread and he has the freedom to post what he believes to be the truth.

 

[truckinbutch]

I think the moderator of this board should change the title of the thread since clearly England is not in hot water over the legal means by which Odyssey exported the cargo in question.

Thanks for the suggestion. And clearly England is not in any "hot water" since everything was by the book. However, this is Ossy's thread and he has the freedom to post what he believes to be the truth.

Explained in a very gentlemanly way , Wreckdiver .

 

[Salvor6]

It clearly shows that Ossy is out of touch with reality and posting fiction.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

When I enter the United States, Canada or Britain, or any other country I remember traveling to, I am asked to declare whether I am bringing in goods over a certain value. That question is not asked if I am just staying in the airport and transiting from one airline to another, but if leave the transit area, and enter the country, I am asked the question. Similarly, if I arrive by boat and then travel through that country to the airport, I am asked about valuable goods that I am bringing in and then goods that I am taking out. I am very surprised if Odyssey were not required to do so when entering Gibraltar, and then required to meet Gibraltar's regulations and restrictions on exports, which include the following, according to an Internet site that I consulted:

http://fedex.com/us/international/irc/profiles/irc_gi_profile.html?gtmcc=us#C09

"General Export Restrictions

The following items are not acceptable for carriage to any international destinations unless otherwise indicated. (Additional restrictions may apply depending on destination. Various regulatory clearances in addition to customs clearance may be required for certain commodities, thereby extending the transit time.)

APO/FPO addresses.

C.O.D. shipments.

Human corpses, human organs or body parts, human and animal embryos, or cremated or disinterred human remains.

............................

Money (coins, cash, currency, paper money and negotiable instruments equivalent to cash such as endorsed stocks, bonds and cash letters).

Collectible coins and stamps"

I am sure that the export of the 500,000 coins must have come under this regulation. I wonder if Odyssey got special permission for the export of the coins, or just ignored the regulation. I am not familiar with Gibraltar, but I suspect that the docks are a secured area for customs purposes.

Mariner

Salvor6 ! It's not fantasy, read the link my friend Jose Pons with good reason asked the EEUU why Odyssey were able to export the type of goods they did (collectible coins ) out of a English port with no restrictions !!!!!
Read general export restrictions the amount they put down as value was checked by who "we believe you, put down what you like " No English expert checked the cargo and even verified there story " just sign here, don't you worry about It
You try and do that, from a foreign port and see what custom's do !!
My aim is to find the Truth ! if you don't believe that then tell someone who cares !!
Ossy

 

[4theMoney]

Sounds to me like odyssey salvaged a wreck in international waters and based on the behavior of Spain, I dont blame odyssey for any methods they use. Like I have said in the past, I have no ties to odyssey, but Spain seems like the pirate to me..... when they cry over every detail and point a finger at anyone they can....

 

[truckinbutch]

Sounds to me like odyssey salvaged a wreck in international waters and based on the behavior of Spain, I dont blame odyssey for any methods they use. Like I have said in the past, I have no ties to odyssey, but Spain seems like the pirate to me..... when they cry over every detail and point a finger at anyone they can....

You got my vote .