Farm finds 12-14 (why so much Rhyolite??)

[Mudonmyshoes]

My son (Brep-Bret) and I finally got out again to the farm we are guessing was a camp. The field is plowed and like Molly said it has rained for days. Once again we found quite a bit of flaking and chips (Rhyolite over a hundred pieces, some rather large), a Guilford, two bases, and a tip. My question is, why so much pieces of Rhyolite and not more artifacts? We are new to hunting (started in June). We have found over 1,100 pieces of chips but only about 20 points (broken and whole). Why so much large pieces that are not utilized? I thought Native Americans used everything they could especially when bring in materials from far away.

I have included pics of the farm (most of the material was found on the highest point in the pic-all in about 1/2 acre area), the Guilford, two bases and a point, some of the large pieces of Rhyolite, and all the chips we found.
Please, any info is appreciated. Thanks.....Mud

 

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[Mudonmyshoes]

Just in case anyone is wondering why we are collecting the flaking/chips, we will be donating most of it to our local museum. They have a sand pit where kids can dig and look for artifacts. We started hunting this farm in October, and all of the material shown is from this site.

 

[Billco]

Fourth picture down, the three pieces in your hand: Is the one on the far right with the crust Rhyrolite?

 

[pickaway]

Nice finds,I'd guess that was the local material so they used it,I hunt a site like that where theres 99% one type of material.

 

[seger98]

Wow, that's a pile! Nice finds...

 

[Mudonmyshoes]

Billco,

All are Rhyolite... Do you believe it to be something different? Please let me know, I am in the learning stage. Thanks for the replies....Mud

 

[Billco]

Mudonmyshoes , I was wanting you or somebody else to educate me. I find artifacts on sites here in north central Alabama made from a material like that. It doesn't show up anywhere else except Indian sites. It doesn't seem like it would flake very well, but it is very hard rock. I don't find a lot of it - a few pieces per site. Here is one piece.

 

[Mudonmyshoes]

Billco,

It sure looks like Rhyolite, but I am not an expert. The reason the Rhyolite chips/flakes are important to us in NC is that the nearest supply/quarry of this material is over a hundred miles away. It's not native to my area. So that's why I was wondering why so many large pieces that were not utilized (see post). Molly knows a lot about Ryholite and can ID the material in your photo. In my area of NC we look for Rhyolite flakes/chips for evidence of a possible site. Thanks....Mud

 

[Carolina Points]

The 4th pic down the one on the far right is ryholite, you could be on a pretty big campsite im not sure but i would say that there was alot of indians by what you keep showing us. Morrow Mtn. is in N.C and that is where all the ryholite came from. I can not directly answer your question but i hunt s.c an n.c and im finding lots of ryholite all kinds of quartz, crystal, yellow, milky etc and alot of different kinds of rhyolite ecspecially blue, green and tan but i do have one banded rhyolite point. Maybe that material was the closest an most efficent for them to use.
HH Clint

 

[*Molly*]

It's really quite normal to find this much rhyolite debrie in NC, But I notice on the campsite I hunt that there are mainly flakes (no debrie), Now I know for sure its a Campsite due to the amount of Blades/Points I have found, must be in the region of 250 now. Now a quarter of a mile away on another field, which wasn't a campsite I find great deals of debrie but rarely any points, so that leads me to believe that the Indians didn't used to actually clutter the campsites with great deals of debrie/spalls, they obviously went off near the site & roughly made performs & such, then sat in the actually campsites to knap them. So Mud, I don't think you are ON a Campsite, I believe you are very close to one though. Thats why I adviced you to search a quarter of a mile around that field you are hunting.

Now we know for sure, its been proved by Archies that the rhyolite came from Morrow Mt, has I have stated before, they did exactly what they did in MUds field. Picked up the larger rocks & roughly made preforms & Scrapers,hoes etc, Then brought them back to their campsites. Then took their time knapping points,blades n such.

It seems pretty obvious that they brought largish chucks of rhyolite back & made the preforms on that field you are hunting. Not been made at the foot of the mountain (like usual), maybe your spot that was a trade area. You know Rhyolite is the main source right? If thats the case it as to have been valuable, so my guess is some Indians traded the spalls for other items. Hence, you finding field full of debrie & rarely any points.

This is just my opinion, but after long hard studying & talking to specialists I believe this account to be accurate. So Mud, check out all the area, I can assure you there is a Campsite near by. Look for higher ground, not necessarily near a creek because the creeks move over many years, so just look for the highest point & check there.

Also, I forgot to mention this before, campsites had slaughter areas near them (NOT on them), where they prepared their kill, so many blades were used, again this could be an area where they prepared their kill. Would explain all the debrie..Blades were roughly made here in NC (unlike in Texas the Caddoans made superb examples of blades), they were used n discarded freely. So lots of debrie would be needed to make them. Maybe you have blades there & can't tell.

I hope this helps you, you ever need help, send me a PM i will come out too meet you & take a look around. Also bring with me what I have found in this Campsite.
Good Luck my friend, look fowards to seeing what you find, keep looking, its really a good idea to pick everything up, so you don't keep picking the same peices up time after time, I learnt that..

Bill, I can't tell if that is rhyolite, I would have to see a closer, clearer pic, before I could & would say for sure. I can send you some, you could compare it to yours if you like? OR you send me some.I personally would have thought AL would have better materials you being near to Miss,GA & FLA.

Mud, I will put together a post of blades, so you can see what you should be looking for, maybe this might help, I think possibly you have quite a few scrapers there, but they would show flaking.

It's not really easy for me to teach or explain, I'm no teacher, however I could come out & help you look over the site.

HH. Molly.

 

[GL]

My sites are all littered with flakes and chips and chunks of rhyolite. It's everywhere but then again I am not far from the Uhwarrie.

 

[Billco]

Molly, Yes there is better material here in Alabama. The sites I hunt are very close to chert pits. Most of the artifacts are chert. Some are jasper and white quartz. I find very little of this material (rhyolite?) It is all blueish on the inside with a white-beige crust. I find rocks on sites all the time that I don't see anywhere else. I suppose they had their reasons for doing what they did, much of it we can only speculate. Maybe in a world of chert, that stuff was pretty to them.

There certainly wasn't any reason to use quartz here since there's a chert pit every few miles, or less. Yet I find quartz arrowheads, some of them next to chert pits.

Yes, you could send me some or i could end you some. My email is at my profile.

 

[*Molly*]

Bill, I'm really surprised you find any at all, points maybe but not rhyolite rocks. I have seen ppl find quiet a lot of Quartz from AL, so there is either a quartz mine there or it was favoured for trading. I'll send you a few peices of Rhyolite, so you can compare, just so you know what it is. Have you ever found ANY points made of this? Be interesting to see if the ol's rhyolite made it that far from home. I doubt it was a favourable trade item though, but then again they could have travelled that far carrying rhyolite with them.
Like you say alls we can do is speculate, but it sure gets one thinking.

Molly.

 

[Carolina Points]

Grat thread this is very helpful to all of us in surrounding states.
Thanks, Clint HH

 

[Billco]

Bill, I'm really surprised you find any at all, points maybe but not rhyolite rocks. I have seen ppl find quiet a lot of Quartz from AL, so there is either a quartz mine there or it was favoured for trading.

Molly.

Alabama stretches 400 miles from north to south from the mountains in the northwest to the beaches on the coast, and lot of variation in between. So what you find in in one part of the state could be completely different in another.

Yes, Alabama is full of quartz. The sand on the Gulf beaches is busted up quartz. But right here quartz that is found comes from somewhere else - less than 100 miles because I know its in Montgomery.

Probably 95% of the finished artifacts I find is chert. The other 5% is almost all quartz and jasper. The rhyolite (if that's what it is) artifacts that I find are crude. I've never found any arrowheads made of "this" rhyolite. I find mostly pieces.

 

[*Molly*]

Bill, if that is rhyolite, it just shows how far they travelled. I read somewhere that your state was the only state with Deer in it, I mean this is going back many many years, it said there were about 2,000 in all. If this is the case, the Indians must have travelled to your state for deer meat.

Also a friend of mine in Texas finds materials that comes from 400 miles away, so this proves they travelled & or Traded fine materials.

Molly.

 

[*Molly*]

Mud, here are a few of my finds, to show you different types of Rhyolite, also blades n such.

 

[*Molly*]

Few more...

 

[Billco]

Bill, if that is rhyolite, it just shows how far they travelled. I read somewhere that your state was the only state with Deer in it, I mean this is going back many many years, it said there were about 2,000 in all. If this is the case, the Indians must have travelled to your state for deer meat.

Also a friend of mine in Texas finds materials that comes from 400 miles away, so this proves they travelled & or Traded fine materials.

Molly.

At Moundville near Tuscaloosa there are copper artifacts in the museum that came all the way from the Great Lakes. Also shell artifacts from the coast. Indians were moving on people. They moved from place to place and had trade routes.

Besides that, if they weren't even trying stuff could have been moved hundreds of miles over thousands of years, just by one person picking it up and another person putting it down for the next person to pick up.

Whatever theory one buys for how the first humans arrived in America, they spreaded to the center by walking, all the while picking things up, moving them aways, and laying them down for the next person.

 

[Mudonmyshoes]

Thanks Molly and Bill,

Your replies are very helpful. Being new and all, I like getting feed back so we can learn. Molly, please see PM for more info.. Bill, If you found Rhyolite in your area, I'm sure you will find a point of this material. It sticks out like a sore thumb, especially when wet (green, yellow, blue, gray....). Thanks again....Mud