Florida Treasure Salvage boat boarded at sea, treasure confiscated

[ivan salis]

legally acquired (worked for goods ) that were in panama's waters and recovered by "legal" salvage contract with panama , what claim does Spain have on panama's waters or items within it of a non military nature ? -- other than it WAS once a highly exploited former colony ?

 

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[AUVnav]

READ the original post.....(BTW..isnt the context that Spain and UNESCO got involved in Panama?)

Just the year prior, Odyssey Marine was forced to hand over to the Kingdom of Spain some $500 Million in treasure they had recovered in International Waters, in what seemed at the time to be an arbitrary and capricious decision by the US Supreme Court, not to stay a lower court ruling awarding the treasure to Spain. This precedent setting case basically pumped out centuries of International Shipwreck Salvage Law with the bilge water.

That plot thickened with the release via WikiLeaks of a State Department Cable to the Kingdom of Spain where the US State Department promised support to Spain in the Odyssey Marine case in a quid pro quo exchange for Spain’s support in efforts to recover a painting from a French Museum that was taken by the Nazi’s during WWII, from relatives of a wealthy family, and presumably a Clinton campaign contributor now residing in the US. While the Kingdom of Spain ended up with the Odyssey Marine Treasure, the painting is still hanging in a French Museum.

This time it’s not the State Department in cahoots with a foreign government, for their own misguided political ends, all too eager to sacrifice the hard work and considerable expense of truly archaeological conscious treasure salvors. No, this time it’s the United Nations coming to the rescue of the Kingdom of Spain (more about Spain in a later blog), and the Panama Institute of National Culture.

The thread was taken in the direction by the usual suspects, and my posts were in accordance with the content of the OP and the content of the thread...

AGAIN

You should READ the rest of the post. Comprehension, well..

and then...

what claim does Spain have on panama's waters or items within it of a non military nature ?

As noted in the legal interpretation, the non-military commercial or non-commercial has no bearing on a property owner claiming its cargo. In this case the property owner happens to be a sovereign. Already ruled on with both the Mercedes and the Juno...

Note that in the law of Salvage, and the law of Finds, the owner retains ownership rights to the property, the salvager only has a claim on the value, not the property.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Actually the thread OP is about an American vessel being boarded while returning to American waters and artifacts from Panama from the San Jose wreck being confiscated by American Homeland Security!

refer to your own quote for the irony in your insult....

Your post is out of context to my response. NOTE

The thread is about Spains claims to shipwrecks in the US and Florida...


You should READ the rest of the post. Comprehension, well...

And I just don't see anywhere that is about Spain's claims to shipwrecks in the US and Florida...

Can you quote me a post about that besides your post stating the thread is about that and mine stating you're wrong?

WD starts with a Florida salvage vessel having artifacts from Panama being confiscated, some Odyssey stuff, the usual suspects interject piracy claims, politics, I point out a fallacy of one of your posts, you insult a poster so I interject how ironic it is that your own insult could be applied to yourself because the posts do not mention Spain's claim to shipwrecks in the US nor Florida and the OP is most assuredly about artifacts from Panama being confiscated by American Homeland Security.

Which what the hell do our employees at homeland security have to do with the will of a foreign entity?

They had a tip?

I've got a frkn tip for ya....read the constitution!!!!!!

My constitutional rights are not submissive to what the coast guard nor homeland security, nor the TSA, nor any wild law enforcement agency believes their authority to be.

Ok so with that being said,,, under what law, violation of law were the artifacts taken?

 

[ivan salis]

Spain says its theirs because they took over the land , enslaved the locals and killed them in the mining of the gold and silver ore and minting of "their" coins ..it was lost at sea .. when on route to Spain (their homeland) ...gee isn't that basically what the Nazi's did during WW2 ?--invade . take over . loot the land of its wealth and art works , kill the local population and steal away the stuff back to their home land ? --under Spain's ideals and rules --I guess the Nazi treasure train from WW2 folks claim to have found would " rightfully" belong to Germany?

 

[Honest Samuel]

I do not trust foreign countries when it comes to treasure hunting. Come to think about it, none of us trust our federal government and our federal courts. Hire good lawyers to drawn up great contracts before searching for shipwrecks.

 

[G.I.B.]

Hire good lawyers before searching for shipwrecks.

...and you can trust the lawyers?

 

[Honest Samuel]

If you do not trust lawyers to drawn up solid contracts to search and recovered treasures. You can take chances, and let foreign countries take all your treasures, after you spend millions to recover it. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[wreckdiver1715]

An article out of today's NY Times...
[h=1]With Shipwreck Treasure Easier to Reach, a Duel Is On[/h]

 

[old man]

Great Story about a Great Treasure Finder.

 

[GA_Boy]

Doubtful that I will ever recover Gold Coins from a ship wreck but IF I do you can bet your sweet self that they will be melted into unidentifiable chunks and disposed of a little at a time. I trust no one, especially those officials feeding at the Gub'mint troughs. I have worked hard all my life and the last thing I need is them to take part of it from me and give to someone that hasn't worked and saved. Rant over!!!!!!!!!!!
Marvin

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Marvin, while I understand your frustration I really hate to hear anyone state that they would destroy shipwreck coins or bars just to get the market value of the metal. Their are plenty of folks who you could contact that would be happy to take them off your hands for a fair price and save you the trouble of destroying a little piece of history.

 

[Red_desert]

"Surveillance" is here and now, like it or not treasure hunters need to adjust to the changing environment. It's no surprise, actually I've been expecting it......referring to online of course.

 

[huntsman53]

I will in no way engage in a P'ing contest over what happened in Panama and elsewhere to Salvors that had contracts that should have protected them and their' finds. However, after some salvaging and attempts at salvaging treasures from wrecked ships that were carrying very valuable cargoes shortly after the wrecks occurred, to my knowledge, Spain has not attempted salvage on these same or other wrecks of Spanish "Treasure Laden" Ships for close to 300 years and close to 500 years on some others. Therefore, how can it be surmised that Spain never abandoned these ships since they have laid untouched and unsearched for by Spain and have deteriorated year after year for the same time periods stated above. Am I missing something?? Is Spain planning to search for and attempt salvage of these wrecks in the year 3035 or later or before??


Frank

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Outstanding, finally some good news for a Change. Congratulations to Dan and his crew! Hope to see you back in Panama someday soon.

Fort Pierce man named rightful owner of treasure he found off coast of Panama

 

[ropesfish]

Tommy, Has Dan settled with the US Federal Government or the Panamanian Federal Government?
I read it as the US Federales have awarded him the coins that DHS confiscated, but I see no mention of the x,000 coins that were removed from their possession at the bank. Has the dispute with Panama been settled or just the US portion of the cluster/^^#>

 

[ARC]

An article out of today's NY Times...
[h=1]With Shipwreck Treasure Easier to Reach, a Duel Is On[/h]

Heh...

“Treasure hunters are to maritime archaeologists what astrologers are to astronomers,” said Filipe Castro, a nautical archaeologist at Texas A & M University.

 

[Red_desert]

Apparently the dispute was a result from a change of leadership of Panama officials. Good reason for having a legit legal contract, you never know what might happen down the road later.

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Tommy, Has Dan settled with the US Federal Government or the Panamanian Federal Government?
I read it as the US Federales have awarded him the coins that DHS confiscated, but I see no mention of the x,000 coins that were removed from their possession at the bank. Has the dispute with Panama been settled or just the US portion of the cluster/^^#>

As I understand it, Dan's lawyers were able to convince the US Govt. that the treasure confiscated was legitimately his property. i.e., Dan had all the documentation from the Panamanian Govt. granting him full ownership. Unfortunately, the battle between the Treasure Salvors in Panama is a continuing battle down here and has not yet been resolved.

 

[regis regis]

L'affaire Panama