Forrest Fenn s treasure

[SlickNickeL]

IMO,,The fact that he suggests the use of map and/or Google earth alongside the poem is quite telling of the fact that we have to treat the problem not only as an english poetry homework but as a geography and/or map reading Home Work as well…in my solve I used a map of an area as I tried to interpret the clues,,,,however there should be some external insight that a searcher should bring to the table in interpreting the clues like wwh,home of brown and most importantly ,yes most importantly the blaze..we can be sure of the need for such an external insight because the poem says “if you have been wise,and found the blaze”…hence besides poetry HW,besides geography/mapreading HW,,he may be expecting us to do another HW in bringing an external insight or wisdom,,maybe philosophy HW?or history HW?

All in my humble IMO

TT

You have a good point, but let's think like a poet. This is the second time this has come up today so I will repeat this post from a different site.

A beginner poet just rhymes words.
An intermediate poet learns the rules and studies the masters.
An advanced poet, advances to learning what his "muse" is by diving to the deepest depths, of how a single word could possibly change the outcome of the meaning, of the whole stanza or poem.
A master of poetry has a "voice" and knows why a word is placed in a particular spot, at a certain time, to provoke the feeling or meaning that is desired by the author.

In Fenn's case, he used a poem to divulge the location of his "special place".
He wasn't given the opportunity to inject any real elements of poetry except for rhyme and meter because, the words he choose were to expose a place on a map, and not express any of the types of figurative meanings that poets use. Symbol, personification, metaphor, synecdoche etc. are simply not present, so the puzzle becomes very simple to a poet who is looking for a set of clues buried in a poem. Symbol is very weak in FF's poem and only in a way that represents a single word, to a place or spot on a map, and not it's pure form in which a poet is accustomed to using.

Here is a great example.

WWWH

The word HALT.

Why this word?

Why not, "Where warm waters stop" or "pause" or "cease"

As a poet, I would have wrote, "Where warm waters rest" but that's me as a poet, and not the architect of a poem/puzzle.

So what's so darn important about the word halt? It's MEANING!!!

It has three separate meanings attached to it with all three meanings applied, and valid for this one word. Almost in a sense of 3 dimensions, all at the same time and ALL correct!
No other word can do this. It must be the word "halt"

Definition of Halt:

A place to stop.
In this case, it's the place where warm water stops, or continues from this point on as warm water after pooling, and warming from the Folsom Falls cold spring water.

Halt, also means lame.
In this case, WWWH is a lame clue.

Finally, lame is a foreshadowing of things to come! It relates directly to our horse at Folsom Falls. This will later, help establish a correct path to the horse head by tying in all of the other "horse" references that come later in the puzzle/poem.

All three meanings correct, and all three used and applied simultaneously to the one single word, halt.

Now, do this for every single word in the puzzle/poem and it becomes clear, why only certain words were used, and not other poetically tasteful word that would be more suited.

Each and every word is important on to itself. Some have several meanings where only one is correct, and some, as in the word "halt" have three separate meanings that are applied and all are correct.

 

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[KXMember]

We'll all find out as soon as the chest is found. No contradictions in my statement whatsoever

 

[Crispin]

Crispin
I do hear what you're saying. You know what banks,lawyers,judges, etc do to millions of folks everyday right...milions of people. Buyer beware,suckers born every minute all that jazz, My point is it isn't breaking people's life and taking their possessions to hunt for a chest of gold. What a great thing to to go do with family & friends and it makes most closer. Our country is made great by capitalism. Mr. Fenn IS a fantastic businessman and there is not one thing wrong with making money and lots of it. So if it isn't out there to find he has forced not a single soul to give up any part of their life THEY choose to. Can't say that for the others mentioned above as we all know they do rip peoples lives apart daily.

Mr. Fenn has stated that subtle hints not intended for the search are in TTOTC . TFTW he has said the map is in the book so yes there is a clue. If folks can't listen and understand what he said and thats the ONLY clue he said was in there then that's on them. Clues and subtle hints are very different things.

Now I will ramble: I too have had dreams that I was aware 100% I was dreaming. 2 times in my life. Quite the experience.!!
Mr. Casey was absolutely for real 100%. ok I will stop there.

One more thing, Mr. Fenn said "all you need to find the treasure is my poem" and that my friend is all over the web so no purchase necessary.

Nvradar,

I really appreciate the sentiments that you have expressed in the above post. By and large, I completely agree with you! Everybody read that sentence again, shocking as it may seem, we do actually agree on most of it. This is a country based on capitalism. Like it or not, that has a lot of good points and a lot of bad points. Given enough work ethic and smarts anybody can make it here. In fact, a wise man once said "Genius is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration." I think that holds true, I really do.

However, there it is, the however, you knew it was coming. There is a difference between the lottery, capitalism, and theft. Mark Twain..ie...Samuel Clemens, "The lottery is a tax on people that are bad a math." Is it taking advantage of the poor...absolutely, but there is no false advertising. The odds are on the back of every ticket. Fair? No...truthful? Yes. Capitalism and fairness is a matter of semantics that can be determined by the courts and our judicial system. Personally, I loathe the dirty businessman if he gets caught or not, but at least we have a system in place to make an attempt (vain as it is,) to make things "fair." LOL...fair...what a joke.

Now, we have to talk about theft and fraud. If I mix water and sugar and sell it as a cure for the common cold then that is fraud. Buyer beware my butt, there are laws in place against that. If I want to sell tickets to a church fundraiser where the winner takes 50% then that is not fair...but it is honest. Where is the burden of proof here? That is what you and everybody else must decide before giving FF a single red cent. If there is no treasure then he has committed fraud and grand theft. I would pay good money to have his 85y.o. butt dragged in front of a grand jury. However, he has created a genius escape. "Prove the treasure doesn't exist." Nobody can ever prove that something doesn't exist. This is the black swan hypothesis. Thus, legally, he is allowed to get away with what he has done.

Lets not bring in other examples or what people may or may not be buying with their money. Lets just focus on FF and nothing else. He has narrowed down the search and thus we must as well. Is he making money off of this? Yes. No argument about that.

Is there a treasure? Only way to prove there is a treasure is to find one. How does one prove something does not exist? Can't be done...black swan.

Thus, the US government, the IRS, and FF himself have decided that it is legal for him to do what he is doing. If he later comes true and states that the whole thing is a hoax....lol, class action law suit!! We all know that will never happen. So, no laws broken, nobody being robbed, people arguably buying entertainment. BUT, we must go deeper, we must dig down into our souls...If he is who he says he is then I would like him to post his tax forms and truly donate all profits to charity. REAL charities that can be documented and tracked. Until then...he is a schister, a genius, and a con artist who found a brilliant loophole in the system. Congrats FF, congrats! He doesn't deserve the good faith all these good people put in him.

Crispin.

 

[Nitric]

Nvradar,

I really appreciate the sentiments that you have expressed in the above post. By and large, I completely agree with you! Everybody read that sentence again, shocking as it may seem, we do actually agree on most of it. This is a country based on capitalism. Like it or not, that has a lot of good points and a lot of bad points. Given enough work ethic and smarts anybody can make it here. In fact, a wise man once said "Genius is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration." I think that holds true, I really do.

However, there it is, the however, you knew it was coming. There is a difference between the lottery, capitalism, and theft. Mark Twain..ie...Samuel Clemens, "The lottery is a tax on people that are bad a math." Is it taking advantage of the poor...absolutely, but there is no false advertising. The odds are on the back of every ticket. Fair? No...truthful? Yes. Capitalism and fairness is a matter of semantics that can be determined by the courts and our judicial system. Personally, I loathe the dirty businessman if he gets caught or not, but at least we have a system in place to make an attempt (vain as it is,) to make things "fair." LOL...fair...what a joke.

Now, we have to talk about theft and fraud. If I mix water and sugar and sell it as a cure for the common cold then that is fraud. Buyer beware my butt, there are laws in place against that. If I want to sell tickets to a church fundraiser where the winner takes 50% then that is not fair...but it is honest. Where is the burden of proof here? That is what you and everybody else must decide before giving FF a single red cent. If there is no treasure then he has committed fraud and grand theft. I would pay good money to have his 85y.o. butt dragged in front of a grand jury. However, he has created a genius escape. "Prove the treasure doesn't exist." Nobody can ever prove that something doesn't exist. This is the black swan hypothesis. Thus, legally, he is allowed to get away with what he has done.

Lets not bring in other examples or what people may or may not be buying with their money. Lets just focus on FF and nothing else. He has narrowed down the search and thus we must as well. Is he making money off of this? Yes. No argument about that.

Is there a treasure? Only way to prove there is a treasure is to find one. How does one prove something does not exist? Can't be done...black swan.

Thus, the US government, the IRS, and FF himself have decided that it is legal for him to do what he is doing. If he later comes true and states that the whole thing is a hoax....lol, class action law suit!! We all know that will never happen. So, no laws broken, nobody being robbed, people arguably buying entertainment. BUT, we must go deeper, we must dig down into our souls...If he is who he says he is then I would like him to post his tax forms and truly donate all profits to charity. REAL charities that can be documented and tracked. Until then...he is a schister, a genius, and a con artist who found a brilliant loophole in the system. Congrats FF, congrats! He doesn't deserve the good faith all these good people put in him.

Crispin.

I agree! with most of what you said above.

I guess, what I was getting at with my lotto comparison, is the false hope that people are fed. I really don't see much difference. Yes, someone will win the lotto. And even though the odds are on the back of the ticket, your kind of "manipulated" to believe the more you play the better your chances and your life could be changed. Yes, it's true, but by how much really? So, we have sales that are true, kind of. Advertising, and people are studied hard, to get people to think one way and skip over reality. Which is fine, I guess....People can research and make choices, or should! I can go into examples in recent years, but people will be offended...

I'm not really for or against FF. I also agree that most of these treasure stories can't be proved that people are chasing.

I guess none of us will ever really know. I'd really have to sort out what I thought if he was found to be a fake. I do have mixed feelings on that. Would it be his fault, or would it be the fault of the person chasing it?

He isn't taking anyone's money. He is selling a product. His books are entertainment. So, is he selling the treasure, or is he selling books! If someone is buying the book, in hopes of finding the treasure with it? That is their fault. So, I'm really mixed on what I think about that. I haven't sorted that out yet in my own mind. Comparing it to everything else that is accepted all around us, that I feel is way worse on people.

 

[nvradar]

Crispin, I guess we will agree to disagree. No worries with that at all. But I will say this...authors write fiction all the time and it sells wildly. Authors write of lost treasures all the time. How many books have been written about the lost treasures, I mean really there are thousands of book out there selling "facts" and stories. Bottom line we all make the choice to search.

I doubt seriously folks spend their life savings searching for this chest. I have seen things and animals in the wild I NEVER would have seen otherwise while searching for this chest. I have seen Big Horn rams,Mountain Goats,Buffalo and a couple I'm very happy not to have seen out in the wild. lol Seen the most unbelievably scenery out there.

Agreed fraud needs to be dealt with harshly when uncovered. Was I not rewarded for my searching? I was indeed!! EVEN if it's proven a hoax I'm good with what I have in my memory and photo album. Money & profit be damned.

 

[tintin_treasure]

You have a good point, but let's think like a poet. This is the second time this has come up today so I will repeat this post from a different site.

A beginner poet just rhymes words.
An intermediate poet learns the rules and studies the masters.
An advanced poet, advances to learning what his "muse" is by diving to the deepest depths, of how a single word could possibly change the outcome of the meaning, of the whole stanza or poem.
A master of poetry has a "voice" and knows why a word is placed in a particular spot, at a certain time, to provoke the feeling or meaning that is desired by the author.

In Fenn's case, he used a poem to divulge the location of his "special place".
He wasn't given the opportunity to inject any real elements of poetry except for rhyme and meter because, the words he choose were to expose a place on a map, and not express any of the types of figurative meanings that poets use. Symbol, personification, metaphor, synecdoche etc. are simply not present, so the puzzle becomes very simple to a poet who is looking for a set of clues buried in a poem. Symbol is very weak in FF's poem and only in a way that represents a single word, to a place or spot on a map, and not it's pure form in which a poet is accustomed to using.

Here is a great example.

WWWH

The word HALT.

Why this word?

Why not, "Where warm waters stop" or "pause" or "cease"

As a poet, I would have wrote, "Where warm waters rest" but that's me as a poet, and not the architect of a poem/puzzle.

So what's so darn important about the word halt? It's MEANING!!!

It has three separate meanings attached to it with all three meanings applied, and valid for this one word. Almost in a sense of 3 dimensions, all at the same time and ALL correct!
No other word can do this. It must be the word "halt"

Definition of Halt:

A place to stop.
In this case, it's the place where warm water stops, or continues from this point on as warm water after pooling, and warming from the Folsom Falls cold spring water.

Halt, also means lame.
In this case, WWWH is a lame clue.

Finally, lame is a foreshadowing of things to come! It relates directly to our horse at Folsom Falls. This will later, help establish a correct path to the horse head by tying in all of the other "horse" references that come later in the puzzle/poem.

All three meanings correct, and all three used and applied simultaneously to the one single word, halt.

Now, do this for every single word in the puzzle/poem and it becomes clear, why only certain words were used, and not other poetically tasteful word that would be more suited.

Each and every word is important on to itself. Some have several meanings where only one is correct, and some, as in the word "halt" have three separate meanings that are applied and all are correct.

What would be worthwhile is to figure out the general big picture Fenn describes in his poem.Once this is identified , hob
,and even wwh become ” local” definitions,,,but setting out to find a “global” hob is quite impossible as there are numerous hobs in the rockies…I believe this has been the problem of the chase in past years..

Though I always thought hob to be a local definition,I did struggle on whether wwh is a global or local definition.Briefly for sometime I thought wwh was a global definition,,but later I realized that there are many wwh in the Rockies as well ,,,hence wwh must be a local definition contingent on the big picture the poem draws.

TT

 

[nvradar]

I'm certain it's all local places and names. Problem is finding which place he is speaking of. If you can find with certainty WWWH then all else should fall into place with the correct searching. I am still hung up on the blaze. I'm not sure if it is big or small. I'm leaning to big..very big. So quickly looking down leaves a ton of acres to search.

 

[mjphoto54]

I've been reading all the treasure posts on here as well as other places, watching interviews, playing on Google earth, all the things most everyone has done who has wanted to be the one to solve the poem and find the chest. The stir it has caused is quite extraordinary. It seems it's be fun for lots of people and a great source of irritation for others. I've enjoyed keeping up with all the opinions and I find things in most of them I can agree with or believe are possible. But even though I do believe there is a treasure chest I have to believe it's already been found. Forrest says its still there, how would he know unless he visits it often. If he has explained how he knows then I missed that part. Not everyone who found such a thing would share their find. Maybe one day they might after time has lessened interest. I may never have the chance to search and even believing it's gone I'd probably still take a chance just to say I did and have an experience. As usual, it's just an opinion, one that seems quite possible. But I'd be very happy to see someone in the news holding the treasure!!!

 

[nvradar]

It does make you wonder if he knows for certain if it has not been found or if he is just thinking somehow it would get out if it was found. Mr. Fenn says "I've thought of everything" .....meaning? EVERYTHING?? Could he miss at least one unknown factor? Quite possibly.

 

[mjphoto54]

Very true. Hard to cover all the variables even when you're Forrest Fenn.

 

[G.I.B.]

I found WWWH. I followed the clues. I found the blaze.

I shared it with a person who posts on this site.


He won't go with me to get the treasure.
-ya gotta wonder about some friends

 

[tintin_treasure]

It does make you wonder if he knows for certain if it has not been found or if he is just thinking somehow it would get out if it was found. Mr. Fenn says "I've thought of everything" .....meaning? EVERYTHING?? Could he miss at least one unknown factor? Quite possibly.

IMO ..the fact that he thought of everything on this as well seems to me he thought of every potential eventualities and may have put some scheme in play to help him know,,,,,for instance he may have put a certain unique telephone number in the chest or unique email address in the chest and may have put a statement that says if you call me on the number or write me on this email address you will get a certain valuable painting or something similar etc..with such or similar mechanism he would know when the chest is located…all IMO

TT

 

[rwaite]

Is anyone searching for Forrest Fenn's treasure in mid-October who hasn't searched before?

Contact [email protected] for info on a documentary currently in production - Hunting Season

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Goose hunt everyone , the hunt went south . LOL

 

[nvradar]

What about us ducks??

 

[G.I.B.]

Is anyone searching for Forrest Fenn's treasure in mid-October who hasn't searched before?

Contact [email protected] for info on a documentary currently in production - Hunting Season

Why yes, I'm heading to Denver this weekend. My buddy won't go- so I'm in by myself...

 

[mjphoto54]

Maybe your buddy already went!!!!

 

[G.I.B.]

Maybe your buddy already went!!!!

Ya know, that would probably explain the new yacht.

I'll bet his uncle didn't die after all....

 

[mjphoto54]

LOL, I know my friends probably would have left me behind....Good luck.

 

[[email protected]]

I will be travelling to NM in the Spring near Eagle Nest, N.M. Any helpful hints would be appreciated.