Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

[zaxfire69]

Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Hello everyone. I made a trip out with the Garrett ATPro this afternoon for a couple of hours. Went to a spot where I have dug a ton of CW 3 ringers. Well today i found a few nice bullets under a Big ole Oak tree. Dug my first 3 ringer and decided I better start a grid. Had a ton of can slaw mixed in with the good signals. Always drives you nuts. Well I started really focusing on the higher lead type signal you get when you hear a bullet. Dug another 3 ringer then it happened. Nice bullet signal. Dug down and saw a flat sided bullet. First thought ENFIELD. So I stuck it in my pouch and kept kicking. The bugs run me off so I headed home. After getting home I cleaned the bullets up and to my surprise I cleaned the cavity of the bullets and the Enfield had "57" in the base. I happy danced> All in all it was a great short hunt. Hope you enjoy the pictures. zaxfire69

 

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[Tnmountains]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Hey nice bullets. I dug a couple today as well. Nothing like that marked enfield though

 

[zaxfire69]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Thanks TN. It surprised me to look down in there and see numbers.

 

[rob.s]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Congrats!!Nice finds

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

The smooth sided Pritchett bullets are often encountered with numbers or letters in the base cavities, but this 57 most likely indicates the calibre of the bullet (many others they are unsure of there meaning like L2?)
Favoured by sharp shooters

 

[zaxfire69]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

I read where it was the year that it was made 1857. Also read where it was the caliber of the bullet. Either way it is Confederate and it a cool find for me. I am happy as can be. This is only the second Enfield I have found in this park. Was a great day.

 

[VOL1266-X]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Congrats Zax!!! They are hard to find. I believe Crusader is correct about the "57" being for .577 cal. I have found only a few "57" base marked. During the Winter, TENN Josh was hunting with Dman and myself and dug 2 of those in the same CSA camp one week apart. WTG, Quindy.

 

[High Plains Digger]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Ok, I am no expert, but don't make me get my books out. I recently read that the 57 and the 1, 2, 3, and all the other dozen or so letters and numbers inside the bullet were production line information marks. If I could remember the English company that made them, I would amaze myself. Perhaps it was in the back of Thomas and Thomas, that being the only bullet book I think I have looked in lately.

Ok, I have the book out: "These bullets were pressed on the "Anderson" bullet machine and the raised markings were created by an engraved punch during the process. It is believed that these markings helped inspectors check for worn forming punches and also identified the machine on which they were made."

Or am I out of touch and T&T is no longer a respected resource book?

Make that at least 16 including 55 and 57. Last two made by Eley Brothers of London.

Several mighty fine bullets, though.

 

[zaxfire69]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Well thank you for explaining that to us. Those bullet books are a must have. I don't have any so i need to order some. I have no clue what kind of bullets I find. I find a good bit. Especially in this spot. Quindy i saw you guys post. You guys always find the good stuff.

 

[DirtDigler]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

HPD is correct. It is in the back of the Thomas & Thomas book, which is in paperback and easily affordable. There is a schematic detailing the manufacturing process. Niiiice find! When I find an Enfield I always wash it good and stare long and hard until I see a number in the base. Someone else has to come along and explain that it's just my imagination. One day... one day...

 

[zaxfire69]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

You are right about the books. I believe most of the bullets i dig are union bullets. This is one that I knew was a little out of place. I believe it is a fired bullet. I also look into the base of all the bullets I find. This one I washed out then took a Q tip inside the cavity. Looked in there and saw a number looking back at me. Was really cool.

 

[High Plains Digger]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

I have an enfield that I thought I could see a number, but when you see one with an actual number, your dreams are dashed to the ground. I am amazed at how different the "standard" 3 ringers can be. One guy told me that more of these variables than we think are Confederate. I suppose there were dozens of USA Mfgs. for them, also.

 

[PArebel]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Hi folks,
I have a question for the experts out there.
One of the CW bullet books I have read states that the Confederates made 3 ringers, but had to use molds. The Union had a machine that formed the minis from a lead bar so there would be no "seams" on the minis. But, if a mold was used there would be a seam.
I noticed "seams" on the three ringers displayed. So, are these three ringers CS?
Thanks.

 

[High Plains Digger]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Here's what I understand, but I know someone with more knowledge will expand and expound on this. US cast many, but learned to lathe them so quality was better. I don't understand the mechanics and efficiency of that, but never mind. Supposedly, the flaws and impurities in the cast bullets allowed "blow throughs". I suppose there was some "stamping", but I don't know about that. The South didn't have as much "new" technology and hardware (I personally love Gardners) and so theoretically many were cast. Some were side cast (seam) and some were nose cast (no seam). I love those, also. I understand they had massive production of 3 ringers as well as enfields, but a lot came from England. Probably was impossible to supply the CS needs due to the US blockade. There seems to be dozens of different shapes and sizes of "three ringers". Ex: long skinny ones with pointy noses, short stubby ones that are rounded. If the soldiers were actually supposed to be accurate, this would affect how the bullet traveled. (Think about this, supposedly one in each pkg of 10 bullets was a Williams Cleaner. Without weighing them, I almost know that they were much lighter than a 3 ringer. The ballistics of the cleaner would be significantly different.)

So, hopefully my info here is reasonably accurate, but I do dislike "old wives tales" of ideas that have no basis in fact. There are some serious experts out there, so chime in--I want to learn more! But be gentle--we don't have many 3 ringers out here in Colorado. I have to visit Georgia to get any first hand experience.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Ok, I am no expert, but don't make me get my books out. I recently read that the 57 and the 1, 2, 3, and all the other dozen or so letters and numbers inside the bullet were production line information marks. If I could remember the English company that made them, I would amaze myself. Perhaps it was in the back of Thomas and Thomas, that being the only bullet book I think I have looked in lately.

Ok, I have the book out: "These bullets were pressed on the "Anderson" bullet machine and the raised markings were created by an engraved punch during the process. It is believed that these markings helped inspectors check for worn forming punches and also identified the machine on which they were made."

Or am I out of touch and T&T is no longer a respected resource book?

Make that at least 16 including 55 and 57. Last two made by Eley Brothers of London.

Several mighty fine bullets, though.

(we are only talking about the smooth sided Enfields)
As you know, books don't have all the answers & are not always right. (not saying either way on this one, as I too have heard that theory). Look at the language. I got my info from a respectable US bullet expert, however even he used language like 'he thought' & 'theories on'.. (NB. note my language to begin with 'most likely indicates')
As far as I'm aware no-one has any source information from that time about what they meant? Come forward if you do, it would help many people?
90% of the ones I find have found have 'NO' markings inside at all. Therefore how does this help the inspector?
Can't put this one to bed just yet.

I have the following:
L x1
L1 x1
0 x1
2 x1
3 x2
4 x4
5 x3
6 x2
7 x2
8 x2
55 x1
.55 x1
57 x1

 

[High Plains Digger]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

You are right, the 90% with no markings does throw a monkey in the bath water. But the factory info idea does make more sense than the caliber theory with all the marks there are. The "what they ment" question is excellent, also. If they were maker's marks, there would be "E" along with "L" and others. Why can't life just be simple?

This question does raise the dander of many people. Next subject of discussion: Religion.

I would really like to have one with a number. Or a star. Now that's another twist, isn't it?

Crusader: What do you know about .52 and .60 (as near as I can measure a hit bullet) enfields? PM me if you need.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

You are right, the 90% with no markings does throw a monkey in the bath water. But the factory info idea does make more sense than the caliber theory with all the marks there are. The "what they ment" question is excellent, also. If they were maker's marks, there would be "E" along with "L" and others. Why can't life just be simple?

This question does raise the dander of many people. Next subject of discussion: Religion.

I would really like to have one with a number. Or a star. Now that's another twist, isn't it?

Crusader: What do you know about .52 and .60 (as near as I can measure a hit bullet) enfields? PM me if you need.

I personally didn't have a theory either way, just quoting an expert who is as unsure as the rest.(as to the real meaning). I think some kind of production mark but no idea why so many are blank

I don't know anything about bullets in general really (too modern for my general research), it was just the smooth ones I was trying to get answers for & gave up

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Ok, I am no expert, but don't make me get my books out. I recently read that the 57 and the 1, 2, 3, and all the other dozen or so letters and numbers inside the bullet were production line information marks. If I could remember the English company that made them, I would amaze myself. Perhaps it was in the back of Thomas and Thomas, that being the only bullet book I think I have looked in lately.

Ok, I have the book out: "These bullets were pressed on the "Anderson" bullet machine and the raised markings were created by an engraved punch during the process. It is believed that these markings helped inspectors check for worn forming punches and also identified the machine on which they were made."

Or am I out of touch and T&T is no longer a respected resource book?

Make that at least 16 including 55 and 57. Last two made by Eley Brothers of London.

Several mighty fine bullets, though.

(we are only talking about the smooth sided Enfields)
As you know, books don't have all the answers & are not always right. (not saying either way on this one, as I too have heard that theory). Look at the language. I got my info from a respectable US bullet expert, however even he used language like 'he thought' & 'theories on'.. (NB. note my language to begin with 'most likely indicates')
As far as I'm aware no-one has any source information from that time about what they meant? Come forward if you do, it would help many people?
90% of the ones I find have found have 'NO' markings inside at all. Therefore how does this help the inspector?
Can't put this one to bed just yet.

I have the following:
L x1
L1 x1
0 x1
2 x1
3 x2
4 x4
5 x3
6 x2
7 x2
8 x2
55 x1
.55 x1
57 x1

I win.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Ok, I am no expert, but don't make me get my books out. I recently read that the 57 and the 1, 2, 3, and all the other dozen or so letters and numbers inside the bullet were production line information marks. If I could remember the English company that made them, I would amaze myself. Perhaps it was in the back of Thomas and Thomas, that being the only bullet book I think I have looked in lately.

Ok, I have the book out: "These bullets were pressed on the "Anderson" bullet machine and the raised markings were created by an engraved punch during the process. It is believed that these markings helped inspectors check for worn forming punches and also identified the machine on which they were made."

Or am I out of touch and T&T is no longer a respected resource book?

Make that at least 16 including 55 and 57. Last two made by Eley Brothers of London.

Several mighty fine bullets, though.

(we are only talking about the smooth sided Enfields)
As you know, books don't have all the answers & are not always right. (not saying either way on this one, as I too have heard that theory). Look at the language. I got my info from a respectable US bullet expert, however even he used language like 'he thought' & 'theories on'.. (NB. note my language to begin with 'most likely indicates')
As far as I'm aware no-one has any source information from that time about what they meant? Come forward if you do, it would help many people?
90% of the ones I find have found have 'NO' markings inside at all. Therefore how does this help the inspector?
Can't put this one to bed just yet.

I have the following:
L x1
L1 x1
0 x1
2 x1
3 x2
4 x4
5 x3
6 x2
7 x2
8 x2
55 x1
.55 x1
57 x1

I win.

I didn't include my blanks

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Found a "57" Base Enfield Today

Ok, I am no expert, but don't make me get my books out. I recently read that the 57 and the 1, 2, 3, and all the other dozen or so letters and numbers inside the bullet were production line information marks. If I could remember the English company that made them, I would amaze myself. Perhaps it was in the back of Thomas and Thomas, that being the only bullet book I think I have looked in lately.

Ok, I have the book out: "These bullets were pressed on the "Anderson" bullet machine and the raised markings were created by an engraved punch during the process. It is believed that these markings helped inspectors check for worn forming punches and also identified the machine on which they were made."

Or am I out of touch and T&T is no longer a respected resource book?

Make that at least 16 including 55 and 57. Last two made by Eley Brothers of London.

Several mighty fine bullets, though.

(we are only talking about the smooth sided Enfields)
As you know, books don't have all the answers & are not always right. (not saying either way on this one, as I too have heard that theory). Look at the language. I got my info from a respectable US bullet expert, however even he used language like 'he thought' & 'theories on'.. (NB. note my language to begin with 'most likely indicates')
As far as I'm aware no-one has any source information from that time about what they meant? Come forward if you do, it would help many people?
90% of the ones I find have found have 'NO' markings inside at all. Therefore how does this help the inspector?
Can't put this one to bed just yet.

I have the following:
L x1
L1 x1
0 x1
2 x1
3 x2
4 x4
5 x3
6 x2
7 x2
8 x2
55 x1
.55 x1
57 x1

I win.

I didn't include my blanks

Neither did I! In fact, the vast majority from that picture is from a single hunt.