Found a "U.S" Embossed Pocket Knife Today. Military Issue? WWII? WWI? Any Ideas?

[FreeBirdTim]

Found a "U.S" Embossed Pocket Knife Today. Military Issue? WWII? WWI? Any Ideas?

Found a crusty pocket knife in the woods today. It's 3" long and only 1/4" thick. Looked like the outer wooden handles were rotted off, so I just stuffed it my pocket and didn't really check it out. But when I got home and cleaned it up, I realized it was a very thin knife with "U.S." embossed on the sides. It also has stars going around the outer edges of the sides. Is this some sort of military issue knife? Could be a cool find or maybe it's just junk. Any input would be appreciated.

 

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[USERNAME IS VALID]

If you're a member on Bladeforums, ask this guy, Bernard Levine, he knows all.

Bernard Levine's Knife Collecting & Identification

 

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[Steve in PA]

I thought that your knife looked familiar, and maybe this has been mentioned already, but your knife is on page 65 of Howard Crouch's "Civil War Artifacts, A Guide for the Historian". The fact that it is in this book only means they have turned up on Civil War sites.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

That means the knife is Civil War era. If so, I stick by my theory that they could have been issued to Union soldiers by a RI knife manufacturer.

 

[Steve in PA]

That means the knife is Civil War era. If so, I stick by my theory that they could have been issued to Union soldiers by a RI knife manufacturer.

You're stretching it now Tim....lol

 

[jwarner51]

I'm just going on my gut feeling and saying this is civil war time period and was just lost or discarded during or shortly after the fact

 

[Xraywolf]

I've given myself a headache looking for this knife online! It couldn't have been mass produced or I would have found one by now. Guess there's no way to prove the age or whether or not it was meant for military use...

Implements made for military use are contracted out to vetted suppliers and bought then issued by the military. No surmising, it was not made or meant for military use.

As has been repeated ad-nauseum, US military did not make pocket knives nor did they issue them. Considering where it was found, almost no probability that it has any connection whatsoever to the CW, though it could well be from that approximate era. Could have had a production run of dozens, 100's or 1,000's, none of which would necessarily make it "rare" if its just a generic design that happens to have US stamped on it.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Sorry, but any souvenir pocket knife would have a large production run. No way would any business go to the trouble of making a production run of "dozens" of knives. No well run company would make a few dozen (or even 100's) to sell. Wouldn't be profitable.

Seems odd to me that there are only two confirmed knives with this design, if it was made as a souvenir. Are you telling me that EVERY other one of these dime store knives has been destroyed or lost, since NONE are currently anywhere online? Hard to swallow that story.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Considering where it was found, almost no probability that it has any connection whatsoever to the CW, though it could well be from that approximate era.

Rhode Island had 25,236 troops during the Civil War. Of those, 23,551 came back alive. Doesn't seem too difficult to picture one of those 23,551 soldiers hunting in the woods after the Civil War and losing this knife. As I stated before, I've found many relics in this area from the 1800's, including the front half of a Civil War era powder flask.

Bottom line, you believe what you want to believe about this knife and I'll believe what I want to believe. Doesn't really matter, since it's still just a crusty old pocket knife to most people in this world! LOL!

 

[Xraywolf]

I am a long time militaria collector, have seen it 1,001 times.
Guys ask for opinions on this and that, and in the end will refuse to accept anything else other than what they believe - So you are quite right, you will believe what you want to believe.

You said "Guess there's no way to prove the age or whether or not it was meant for military use...", that is incorrect. It is NOT meant for military use, and if you want to believe a Gettysburg vet carried it back from battle and lost it, feel free. Might just as well have been dropped by a boy scout or a farmer. All military collectibles stand on their own merit, not gut feelings or best guesses.

 

[ARC]

I am a long time militaria collector, have seen it 1,001 times.
Guys ask for opinions on this and that, and in the end will refuse to accept anything else other than what they believe - So you are quite right, you will believe what you want to believe.

You said "Guess there's no way to prove the age or whether or not it was meant for military use...", that is incorrect. It is NOT meant for military use, and if you want to believe a Gettysburg vet carried it back from battle and lost it, feel free. Might just as well have been dropped by a boy scout or a farmer. All military collectibles stand on their own merit, not gut feelings or best guesses.

You have seen THIS knife 1001 times ?

Yet... not one can be found. heh

I have spent a good amount of time of this piece as to shed the light here...
Which as many of you know...
IF info exists... I would have found it by now.

Regardless of "what" "when" or "where" anyone here thinks the knife is from is moot...
this knife is rare...
Period.

 

[diggummup]

View attachment 1350664 Here it is. I would love to add that to my collection!

I thought that your knife looked familiar, and maybe this has been mentioned already, but your knife is on page 65 of Howard Crouch's "Civil War Artifacts, A Guide for the Historian". The fact that it is in this book only means they have turned up on Civil War sites.

This was shown on the first page by worm-slicer. I asked what book it was on reply 24 but never got an answer. Should have quoted him I guess. Thanks for letting us know where the photo came from.

I've given myself a headache looking for this knife online! It couldn't have been mass produced or I would have found one by now. Guess there's no way to prove the age or whether or not it was meant for military use...

At the risk of repeating myself...All Civil War era pocket knives were civilian and none were ever issued or produced specifically for the military. It just didn't happen. Every single pocket knife carried was a private purchase that anyone could buy. Pocket knives were a very popular and necessary personal item that were carried by most soldiers and civilians alike. Pocket knives only lasted a few years because they were such a common and an often used utilitarian item back then. They were many knife manufacturers in the northeast during the war. The fact is you will never actually know who carried this knife. You can romanticize it all you want. It may very well have been a soldiers knife at some point but I doubt it and it can never be proven. Not unless it was found on private property and you can trace those property records back to a veteran CW soldier that once owned the place. Even then it is a stretch of the imagination to say the least.

If you want a good little summarization of what Union soldiers carried in their pockets as identified from personal effects cataloged from their remains when their bodies were exhumed at the Gettysburg cemetery to be moved to the new National Cemetery, read this-
Ran Away From The Subscriber: What Did the Union Soldier Carry in his Pockets?: A Material Culture Analysis of the Report of Samuel Weaver, Gettysburg, 1864

You have seen THIS knife 1001 times ?

Yet... not one can be found. heh

I have spent a good amount of time of this piece as to shed the light here...
Which as many of you know...
IF info exists... I would have found it by now.

Regardless of "what" "when" or "where" anyone here thinks the knife is from is moot...
this knife is rare...
Period.

He has seen this "situation" 1001 times. The one he describes in his next statement... Guys ask for opinions on this and that, and in the end will refuse to accept anything else other than what they believe

Rarity does not always equal valuable and condition always plays a part in that equation too. You can have this sterling silver "CW era" pocket knife for under $200. It's rare too. Bet you can't find another one like it either. I'll go on a limb and say I believe it is post war myself. Camp-Items

Civil War era Patriotic pocket knife. Sterling silver knife with
central shield motif of Stars and Bars on both front and back of
case. Shield has 13 stars. Front is engraved "Sarah", obviously a
gift from a wife or other loved one to a soldier. Has dings and
dents as would be expected. Blade does not appear to have ever
been sharpened but tip does have a very slight wrinkle. Blade is
complete with three original hallmarks. Catch for blade is broken
(and may be repairable) so it does not stay closed but knife still
displays beautify. Overall length is 3 1/4"
An impressive piece under priced due to condition.
# 1416 $180

 

[ARC]

And money / a price... does not equate to "value". heh (just look at half the crap sold in todays marketplaces)

Value monetarily does not equate to worth.

And none of these equate to rarity.
Anything... and I mean anything made... Is ONLY worth what someone will pay.... YET... something NO ONE will buy for any price... Can be priceless. :P

Follow mate ?

With this being said... this is a rare... prolly worth nothing monetarily... pocket knife that was carried at one time by someone who had no idea that one day it would be found by a MD'r and posted in space and debated so greatly :P

And because of that...
Its a banner :P

Just for the simple fact... it has drawn so much attention... speculation... debate... and mystery.

 

[Oddjob]

Well I have to say that when I first saw this thread with another computer that did not allow me to open the picture up larger I too thought it was the typical Camilus.

So maybe this fella can not actually open it to see a larger picture.

Facts are:

1.) It is one heck of a cool find, that could be restored.
2.) Not made for a Military Application, but more so for anyone to buy.
3,) 25,000 plus troops in that area alone where it was found.
4.) Thousands of Tnet users and yet only one person has ever seen on and that was in a Historians Cheat Sheet Man.

Well not to sound like the 30+ year government vet here that employs basic intelligence analysis in everyday practice but..... Fact 2 could also be said for the ODA issued Griphon, Benchmades or the ODA 1911 CC for Warrants. Yes many others could buy them, but really there is no practical use in owning them unless you where issued it or you really want to show some patriotism.

Having so many troops in that area where said artifact was recovered makes it more likely that a troop had it than anyone else, not to throw numbers but if the town or city back then had say 3000 civilians in it and 25,000 troops it sort of bucks the odds.

But in the end does that really matter, the knife just needs to get to restoration and have a pro look at it. If it where me I would get my hands on a copy of that book the other user found it in and run down those sources because that is teh best place to start.

Many of us on here collect weapons, I have more than 1000 knives that where either issued to me, passed down from generation to generation or rare purchases; as well as just over 400 guns. Yet I have never seen one of these, and right there means JACKSHIT, I also have a PhD in History, again JACKSHIT.

But what I can say is that I have a few very rare old pen knives my self worth thousands, ones that I have actually seen other places as well. This makes me only wonder what this would be worth.

To the finder, as a collector my self I think you got something pretty darn rare. If I owned it I would send it in for restoration, just from the pics alone I would say it can be recovered just fine. But if you do not have the funds then open a crowd funding page for it, heck I will pledge you 20 bucks, I am sure others will give money as well since you are saving History. The one user here with the book provided a great place for you to start digging.

Then I would get back out there and layer that are with about a 20 foot string circle around the find site, read the surrounding land work from there.

 

[diggummup]

And money does not equate to "value". heh

Value monetarily does not equate to worth.

And none of these equate to rarity.

Moot points in regards to this topic/conversation. The intrinsic value of that knife is only what someone is willing to pay for it. In my world it's always about the money. However, I'm just a poor white boy that still breaks his back for a living, so I'm sure I don't equate either to certain people in certain circles. So what was your point again exactly?

 

[ARC]

You must have missed my edits. :P
OR...
You chose to only use that part... heh

 

[ARC]

Oh... and I meant to suggest this way earlier...
FreebirdTim...
You have to get that blade open and cleaned ... the mark if any legible exists... will tell the tale.

 

[Oddjob]

Oh... and I meant to suggest this way earlier...
FreebirdTim...
You have to get that blade open and cleaned ... the mark if any legible exists... will tell the tale.

Ditto,

Needle Nose, Vise and WD40.

LOL, could not resist.

 

[ARC]

heh... More like vise grips and vise ... After a long saturation in PB Blaster.

Cover the "faces" of the knife with double thick tape prior to vise.

 

[etex]

I would not try to open, I think it would fall apart. Not everything is worth what somebody will pay for it. A fake CSA buckle may go for $500 on eBay but it is not worth $500 because somebody is fooled and pays that.

 

[Scrappy]

This is an awesome thread. Nice knife Tim. Whatever it ends up being attributed to. Cheers