Found a Very Rare Military Button! NEW INFO ADDED 11 Aug 10

ColonialDude

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I have found many Revolutionary War buttons over the years, some of which are quite rare. I never thought my rarest button find yet would be from the War of 1812, but it appears as though that's the case.

When I dug this button I had been finding nothing but bottle caps and pull tabs from people camping and fishing. The hunt was not going well at all. Then, right by a picnic table I get a nice hit but it was very shallow. I expected a modern target, but at 3 inches or so I pulled this button out. When I first found it it was CAKED with dirt and looked to have nothing on the front at all. The back of the button was quite visible however, and when I saw the gold gilt and the backmark I knew I better take a closer look at the front. Usually I wait until I get home, but I had to know what this button was. I picked off a hard piece of dirt from the front and was stunned when I saw what was on the button. Not knowing U.S. buttons very well, I was confused as to what I had. I clearly saw 'United States Artillery' on the face, and a stack of 6 cannon balls. I knew based on the button design it was quite old, but not Revolutionary War. The War of 1812 made sense as there was a lot of activity during the conflict in that area. However, I had never seen a U.S. artillery button from the War of 1812 with this design. I figured it must date slightly before or after the war as I knew the backmark was a fairly old and good one.

When I got home I looked it up in Alberts book and was pleasantly surprised to see a RV of 100, which seemed to me to be quite rare in comparison to most buttons. The book seems to suggest at the time of printing the example in the photograph was the only known example. I have scoured the internet and all of my reference books, but can't find another example anywhere. I was told the example in the book is in the Smithsonian, although I can't confirm that. There is a note in Alberts under the button which points to the 'National Button Bulletin, May 1962' for more info on the particular example in the book. I don't have it, and can't find it. Any chance one of you owns this issue?? I would love to know what it says!

I am left wondering if this button is numer 2 of 2 known. Can anyone provide any more info on the button or confirm how many are known to be out there??

What I know of the button, it is a United States Artillery, 2nd Regiment button. Made in 1808. I am also told (but again can't confirm) there were only about 300 made as Armitage made them as samples, but never received the contract.

As you can see in one of the pics, the button was still quite dirty (even after I removed some caked on dirt in the field) when I got it home. I knew there was some gilt under there and hit it with some aluminum jelly. Cleaned up quite nice. The front is nice, but the back blows me away!
 

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Upvote 9

jeric2

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

not sure what your financial situation is, but if I were you, I wouldn't be in any rush to sell this. I think the offers will continue to come and once it is documented on how rare this is, it could just go up to a value you can't imagine right now. If this is as rare as we all think it is, who can actually put a price on it?
 

sjarchangel

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

Well, I just ran the pic through several complicated LE forensic image tests and there is no "123". PERIOD.

SJA
 

The Patriot

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

ColonialDude said:
Bry said:
I just saved the pic to my computer, and enlarged it,adjusted it and fine tuned it,,,123

sure thing bud

there's alway one in a crowd :laughing9:
 

sjarchangel

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

PS. . . Many WO 1812 buttons were obtained along the Canadian Border and the "RV" indicates Relative Value. eg. "RV 100" indicates a US Dollar value of approximatley $100.00.

SJA
 

Silver Searcher

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

ColonialDude said:
W57 said:
So sorry, but I'm with the 123 loons... :dontknow:

Well I guess you have reached the 5th and final stange...acceptance.

It's one thing for some of you to THINK you are seeing something on the button, but quite another for those who are trying to convince everyone else it's there, including the guy who found the thing and can actually hold it in his hand!!! THERE IS NO 123!!!!

I have to admit, this 123 thing is getting annoying enough, and off topic enough that I am ready to just pull the pictures or post.
No...don't do that, take no notice of these nutcases that say they can see numbers ??? they can proberbly see ghosts walking about as well :laughing9: this is your momment not there's :notworthy: enjoy it :headbang: :icon_thumleft:

SS
 

SouthJerseyJim

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

I thought the same thing to Silvesearcher. Then I said what the heck lets take a look on photobucket and try and see what these people are talking about. Well it may not be 123 but it looks like something. Then again I stared at a toasted large cent one time and thought I saw numbers and letters, in reality it was still toasted :tongue3: Heres a pic of the button in negative form. Sorry Colonial dude but this is why everyone thinks theres numbers. Very nice find btw!
artillery2.jpg
 

W57

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Aug 17, 2008
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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

The statements "There are no numbers" and "I can see numbers" are not mutually exclusive. My sympathies if this causes duress and somehow lessens the enjoyment of the find (congrats on an amazing find BTW). Perhaps discussing the interesting nature of digital photo peculiarities would be appropriate rather than denigration of those who can "imagine" what others don't seem to be able to.
 

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ColonialDude

ColonialDude

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

Interesting photo work. That's pretty cool whatever you did. That being said, even in your photo, I see nothing that indicates there is anything at the bottom of the button, or ever was for that matter. Looking again, I see that the portions which are bright or sort of glowing in the photo are not indicative of areas where there is any writing or design, they are simply the areas which no longer retain any gilt.
 

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ColonialDude

ColonialDude

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

jeric2 said:
not sure what your financial situation is, but if I were you, I wouldn't be in any rush to sell this. I think the offers will continue to come and once it is documented on how rare this is, it could just go up to a value you can't imagine right now. If this is as rare as we all think it is, who can actually put a price on it?

My financial situation is fine. I am not knocking on doors to sell this button. That being said if someone made me an offer that blew my socks off I would take it. Lets face facts, someone is going to sell this button someday.

It should also be noted, that buttons are in a bit of a world of their own when it comes to collecting. There are limited collectors with deep pockets, and once the big collectors get an example of a particular button, any new discoveries will command much less on the market. To those who say 'hold onto it, it will only increase in value', well that's not always the case. If no new specimens are found buttons may increase in value, but with each new find the numbers start to roll back.

I have seen big collectors pay very good money for a button they already have. If a collector has the only known example of a button, and another is suddenly discovered and offered for sale, it might be in their best interest to buy it as to keep other examples unknown or off the market. It enables their button to keep it's value and in some cases if possible, they may keep the discovery of a second example from the rest of the collecting world.
 

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ColonialDude

ColonialDude

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

sjarchangel said:
PS. . . Many WO 1812 buttons were obtained along the Canadian Border and the "RV" indicates Relative Value. eg. "RV 100" indicates a US Dollar value of approximatley $100.00.

SJA

Yes, I am aware many War of 1812 buttons are found along the Canadian Border, most notably Niagara. I completely disagree with the RV-100 = $100 statement. The "RV" or "Relative Value" has no direct association with a specific dollar figure, and I believe the author states as much in his book although I don't have it handy right now. If this logic were true, a very rare political button (RV-250) that typically sells for thousands is worth a mere $250?? Not the case.
 

sjarchangel

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

Relative Values - Albert, bottom page 8.

SJA
 

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ColonialDude

ColonialDude

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

sjarchangel said:
Relative Values - Albert, bottom page 8.

SJA

Okay, as stated I don't have my book. What does it say?? RV-100 = $100???
 

sjarchangel

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

Yes. But I also do not agree. I spoke to MR Albert many years ago ref a GW button I found and at that time he told me a different "value".

SJA :-)
 

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ColonialDude

ColonialDude

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

sjarchangel said:
Yes. But I also do not agree. I spoke to MR Albert many years ago ref a GW button I found and at that time he told me a different "value".

SJA :-)

Interesting. Are there several editions of Alberts book? I could have sworn he did not give specific dollar values in relation to RV. Maybe I am just getting older. Anyhow, yes...if he intended the RV-100 = $100, it's well off the mark indeed. Granted the book was written quite some time ago.
 

sjarchangel

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

The book I have is dated 1976. There may be other editions I'm not aware of.

SJA :-)
 

W57

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

Just a guess, but is sounds as though the term "relative value" was used to avoid inflation rendering the valuations prematurely obsolete. An item worth 100 "units of currency" would be worth 40% of one worth 250 "units of currency"
 

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ColonialDude

ColonialDude

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (9 Aug small update)

so I got another email from Warren Tice as I sent him a reply for clarification. He stated he was unsure about the quantity made, but confirmed that my find is the 3rd of this type that he is personally aware of. That's not to say there aren't more in collections, but the man has a good knowledge of buttons and has been around the button world for some time, so it's a good sign.
 

{Sentinel}

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (UPDATED with new INFO)

BuckleBoy said:
You have my Banner vote. That is a superb button in top notch condition. Even without the shank, it will be a high-dollar find. I also want to congratulate you on the cleaning methods as well. Again--Top Notch.


Regards,


Buckleboy

I agree Buck, this button without the shank would bring a substantial amount....and being that it has a very pretty shank, it will indeed bring hundreds more. I would say spectacular find but that would be stating the obvious. Terrific sight to see on the Banner! :icon_thumleft: :wink:
 

detectahead

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Re: Found a Very Rare Military Button! (9 Aug small update)

Absolutely beautiful!! :icon_thumright:
 

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