Four...Hundred...Year...Old...Silver...Coin...Foun d...Today!

smokeythecat

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I was digging the 17th century site today. We had a late start, but still had four hours. I missed my chance at stardom with the squirming through the fence slot again. No one took a picture. Hence, no youtube stardom, like that's worth anything anyway. Well, I went back to the hot spot I found last Saturday and it didn't disappoint. Lots of pieces of small lead were found as well as some colonial buck shot, hand made, and found a few modern lead bb shot from shotguns. Those are annoying signals, even 3" deep! A lot of the forget broken iron will ring as high tones on the Deus. So I dig them. Half the time its NOT iron. Dig it all, let God sort it out.

I found a nice 17th century button, then some more and on one part of the site there was a later house, ca 1770. Over there I found some other flat buttons and more of the large colonial buck shot. A little later I got a prize, a very early partial eyeglass buckle in cast brass.

In the area we were getting the most from the 17th century house, I got an "85" on the Deus, but this target sounded SMALLER than the others.

I took out a big plug and the ground was plain muddy and in some places you'd get stuck in the mud.

After chasing the signal with the pinpointer, I picked out a small, round disc. After getting some of the mud off, I noticed a silver gleam on a corner.

After I got home I cleaned it a little, the copper inherent in the silver tarnished it somewhat. There is some detail remaining, but it appears to be a hammered silver coin.

It is about 15mm in diameter and weighs .84 grams. It may be a contemporary counterfeit. I'm thinking it started out life as an English 1/2 groat, James I or later. Now, in theory it could be from any place, and any point in time. The pirates went all through there and we believe fired on the little settlement, as we're finding grapeshot and swivel shot near where the houses were. The 17th century pirates could have had coins from any period, and time.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. A picture of both sides, and the little buckle are attached.
View attachment IMG_1467.jpg View attachment IMG_1468.jpg View attachment IMG_1469.jpg View attachment IMG_1470.jpg View attachment IMG_1466.jpg

Any idea on identification is appreciated. EXCITED!
 

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smokeythecat

smokeythecat

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Well, maybe I"ll know more on Wednesday when I visit the coin dealer. I have books on world coins, but combined they are 6 inches thick.

In 2016 I found a hammered coin in NJ. The local dealer who is so good at this ID'd it as a medieval Spanish city states coin. It has the same basic characteristics. Hammered, raised center both sides, and incised ring both sides. That coin also looks like dog vomit. However he was able to pin it to the 14th or 15th century and Spanish, so that's where I'm going to start. That's NEW JERSEY. Not old Jersey.

Under microscope examination, I can find no evidence of a shank. The mystery deepens. Knowing him, I'll be there 3 minutes and he will tell me it's a so and so...mystery solved.

Should I say 500 year old or 600 year old? Not yet. It's mind numbing trying to figure it out. But fun. In the end, it doesn't matter a whole lot.
 

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tinpan

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Hi, The moment you put that blob into the solution which you use to clean silver you destroyed the evidence that could have been used to determine the age . The 3 best known tested would now fail .Next time leave the relic alone .Your blob has aged another 100 to 200 years since yesterday .TP
 

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smokeythecat

smokeythecat

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Nah, it's fine. I can make out details on it now, and hobbyists cannot gt scientific analysis run on things like this. XRD is an option, but pointless on a coin.
 

Possum

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Coin, button or silver blob, who cares it's still an awesome find Smokey, great job on the clean up and Congrats!!! "D"
 

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smokeythecat

smokeythecat

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Thank you all. I have a "probable" coin identification. I had two people look at it today. The dealer will be open tomorrow and that should cement it down. I have a similar hammered coin in copper, and it is remarkably similar, so tomorrow is (hopefully) the day. Although it still is pretty much dog food.
 

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smokeythecat

smokeythecat

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Oh, it's "genuine", just not sure WHAT it is, for another 3 hours that is!
 

BLK HOLE

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Great find Smokey! You find the coolest stuff!
 

vferrari

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Yep, from viewing it yesterday under a loupe I can say three things - Silver/Silver alloy, definitely NOT a button, and the strike marks are consistent with other old world re-hammered silver and copper coins I have seen that have ended up in early new world settlements. The coin expert should be able to confirm that if not positively ID what originally was.
 

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smokeythecat

smokeythecat

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Ok, I have returned from the really knowledgeable coin dealer. So here goes...

1) It is definitely solid silver
2) In his words it is "extremely" old
3) A totally positive ID could not be made, as we all know somebody "messed" with it pre 1725 when the site was abandoned. His best estimate was it started out life as a 14th or 15th Century German Silver Pfenning

I'm happy with that. I figured it was so far messed with a 100% positive id would not be possible, but I'm happy.
 

Rubka888

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That is pretty cool! Actually really freaking cool! Too bad you can't get an exact ID
 

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smokeythecat

smokeythecat

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Maybe I'll find something over the weekend. I haven't cleaned up the CW stuff yet. It's almost nap time too.
 

vferrari

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Knowing that it started life as a hammered coin, as verified by the coin expert, that dates it to no later than the 1650 - 1675, which is when the last hammered coins were struck in Europe.
 

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smokeythecat

smokeythecat

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The two most recent hammered's I found were complete dog food. The copper Spanish I found last year was found along a semi-local road, and now this silver one. Both were horribly rough. The others I dug were much better condition, but they are all hard to find. I'm amazed I found so many within the last few years, but Maryland was founded in the 1630's with the Spanish first arriving but not staying in the 1500's.
 

tinpan

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Knowing that it started life as a hammered coin, as verified by the coin expert, that dates it to no later than the 1650 - 1675, which is when the last hammered coins were struck in Europe.

Hi 1 SKUDO Franciso Ximenez Order of Malta Silver hammered coin 1773 Used until the French Occupation in 1798 . Please explain ? TP
 

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