Fun with G.E.

[somehiker]

In other words ..."A Slam Dunk"

Thanks Frank. It was one of those nagging details I had been wondering about.

 

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[roadrunner]

Here is a pic of the view that I think fits.
Has at least 2 hills,could have had 3 in Waltz time. The third one would be the little hump on the left of the 2. Red could be in the afternoon sun.
There is a trail on the right hand side of the hill on right.
There is a mountain to the left.
And it is also in the same area as Hals.

 

[Hal Croves]

Slam dunk? Kinda like "mission accomplished"? I do hope that you one day find it, but I think that you are letting more recent "clues" shape your thinking. Post the source of that clue if you don't mind.

 

[somehiker]

Hal:

My reply was to the previous post by sgtfda, who answered my earlier questions....
"Anyone been to the "pit mine" yet ??
Does the sketch match any view from there ?"

Frank and some of the others taking part in these discussions had planned a hike out to the "Pit Mine" referred to in this thread....
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...88567-pit-mine-really-lost-dutchman-mine.html

"that clue" is the sketch attributed to Waltz which I'm sure you already know the history of.
So it is not a recent clue at all. But it's one that hadn't been mentioned before as being evidence for the "pit mine" being the LDM.

Can you give a source for this statement ?
"If you had the original clues you would know that the cave was also concealed by the Dutchman."

Waltz's mine has never been very high on the list of things I'd like to find.
But I've been hiking out there since 1996, and do keep my eyes open for any of the hundred or so clues associated with the LDM, just in case.
While at least one of those clues attributed to Waltz says that he partly blocked up the entrance to the tunnel, I have never seen where he was supposed to have concealed the cave.

Regards:SH.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Y'all,

In my opinion, that clue which is claimed to be at the Pit Mine, is not a clue at all the way it is being used. As far as we know, it was drawn by Jacob Waltz, but it has only been assumed that is what he could see from his mine. I have never heard that it was stated so by Waltz himself. Some other guy, who's name escapes me, started to refer to it as the gun sight clue. Now many claim that the gun sight clue fits the Pit Mine, when it is not a clue at all.

If you look at the drawing, there is no mistake that you are looking at Weaver's Needle from the north, so no this can not be seen from the Pit Mine. So there is no slam dunk, Jack actually threw an air ball.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Homar:

How do we know that the feature shown on the right is actually Weaver's Needle ?
After all, there is no name written on the sketch, and no arrow for directional information.
There are other peaks out there which have the same profile when viewed from the right direction.
We don't even know for a fact, that everything on the page should be viewed from the same location, do we.
I think the "gunsight" clue is a completely different one. I believe there was a photo posted once by Joe, showing Weaver's Needle as seen from the pit mine, which resembled a view through open sights. Perhaps he can re-post it here, and someone can match it with a G/E view.

Regards:SH.

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

We might want to throw into the mix that Waltz was dying, likely from pneumonia, when he drew that picture, if he drew it. It had been many years since he had been to the mine and I doubt his memory was working all that well. I have been with many people who were dying with pneumonia added to other ailments, and none of them were thinking clearly. "Help me" were the words they kept repeating. When that stooped, moans and groans were all they could get out. All clues attributed to Jacob Waltz are suspect in my book. Those that came from his deathbed and those that came after his death being the most troublesome for me.

I believe the "Gunsight" picture is posted here......somewhere. If not, it's on the LDM Forum sight. I'm at work, and my computer is out for repairs right now, so I don't have the picture available to me.

Found it:



Photo courtesy of David Leach.

This was taken from east of the Pit Mine, and at higher elevation. From lower down, it looks a lot like the "Waltz drawing".

Good luck,

Joe

 

[sgtfda]

Joe I've seen a photo from a lower elevation and looked right on

 

[markmar]

 

[Hal Croves]

I am beginning to see what I believe is the disconnect. Cactusjumper, will you tell everyone the history of that drawing... I mean post Dutchman.
I think that it will help quite a bit of people here.

Waltz/Walzer was not able to speak in the final days from what I have read. The drawing was simply one last effort to be understood.
I have had people die in my arms on more than one occasion. There is an urgency to communicate, and if the story were not true, I doubt the Dutchman would have tried so desperately to give clues to a hole in the ground in his last days.
He wasn't giving it to Julia as he only knew her by site. I believe that Rhieny was the intended person... But he failed to listen and to secure the location. I think that this haunted Rhieny and eventually drove him to suicide.
So... Tell the correct history of that drawing. My bet is that it is the real deal. What say you?

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar:

How do we know that the feature shown on the right is actually Weaver's Needle ?
After all, there is no name written on the sketch, and no arrow for directional information.
There are other peaks out there which have the same profile when viewed from the right direction.
We don't even know for a fact, that everything on the page should be viewed from the same location, do we.
I think the "gunsight" clue is a completely different one. I believe there was a photo posted once by Joe, showing Weaver's Needle as seen from the pit mine, which resembled a view through open sights. Perhaps he can re-post it here, and someone can match it with a G/E view.

Regards:SH.

Howdy Wayne,

It is more likely to be Weaver's Needle than any thing else, when you consider that the doodle was made by Jacob Waltz, and his clues revolve around it. A name is not needed when you can see that it's a perfect match. Panoramio - Photo of Weaver's Needle from the north

I would like to see other peaks which have that same profile.

If we don't know for a fact, that everything on the page should be viewed from the same location, why is it accepted as the gospel when coming from Jack San Felice, and why can it actually be Weaver's Needle when this clue is tried to make fit the Pit Mine?

The so called "gunsight" clue is in fact referring to the doodle left by Jacob Waltz. It is not a completely different clue. I could not find the name of the person who started to call it like that, but since Joe Ribaudo doen't lie, he could tell you who coined that phrase. Here is a quote from Joe:

"Someone who's opinion I respect very much gave the view from the mine the "gunsight" name."

I'm sure you can take that to the bank. He was referring to Jacobs doodle at the time. If you look closely at Weaver's Needle from the Pit Mine, the profile is reversed, so again, that clue doesn't fit at all.

Joe,

Jacob Waltz was not dying at the time he drew that map. It is said to have been made probably a month before his death, while trying to show Rhiney Petrasch how to get to it.

Homar

 

[393stroker]

Maybe the doodle is looking towards Weavers Needle from the southwest. And Waltz was trying to tell them to go to Tortilla Mt. in the background where the outline match`s the map, where the space is. Where Jesse Capen went.

 

[Hal Croves]

What I am trying to determine is just how soon after his passing Herman was sent for... I have... "Soon after.."
It helps to show the urgency and promise of the search that the trio were preparing for. But why include Julia? If Rhieny had all the clues why include Julia? Did she use her share of the gold money that she & Holmes stole to finance the expedition?
Sorry if this is off topic.

 

[393stroker]

Tortillia Mt. in the background.

 

[cactusjumper]

Howdy Wayne,

It is more likely to be Weaver's Needle than any thing else, when you consider that the doodle was made by Jacob Waltz, and his clues revolve around it. A name is not needed when you can see that it's a perfect match. Panoramio - Photo of Weaver's Needle from the north

I would like to see other peaks which have that same profile.

If we don't know for a fact, that everything on the page should be viewed from the same location, why is it accepted as the gospel when coming from Jack San Felice, and why can it actually be Weaver's Needle when this clue is tried to make fit the Pit Mine?

The so called "gunsight" clue is in fact referring to the doodle left by Jacob Waltz. It is not a completely different clue. I could not find the name of the person who started to call it like that, but since Joe Ribaudo doen't lie, he could tell you who coined that phrase. Here is a quote from Joe:

"Someone who's opinion I respect very much gave the view from the mine the "gunsight" name."

I'm sure you can take that to the bank. He was referring to Jacobs doodle at the time. If you look closely at Weaver's Needle from the Pit Mine, the profile is reversed, so again, that clue doesn't fit at all.

Joe,

Jacob Waltz was not dying at the time he drew that map. It is said to have been made probably a month before his death, while trying to show Rhiney Petrasch how to get to it.

Homar

I imagine they said "probably" was because no one knew for sure when he drew it.

My "gunsight" quote came from David Leach.

"I'm sure you can take that to the bank.

He was referring to Jacobs doodle at the time. If you look closely at Weaver's Needle from the Pit Mine, the profile is reversed, so again, that clue doesn't fit at all."

Some people think it matches pretty close, including me. For us it fits. Where's your own picture?

Take care,

Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Joe,

I would not call the exact opposite, a pretty close match. Some people, including you, can't handle the truth, so what would be the point in presenting the exact view? My picture will remain my own for now.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Homar:

"I would like to see other peaks which have that same profile. "

Here is one for example:



This is looking down and to the left:

View attachment doodle1.bmp

Took these a couple of years ago while on a "day off" hike.
If I had been thinking of Waltz's sketch at the time, I probably could have found a spot where I could get it all in the same view.

I'm pretty sure, without looking it up, that the "gunsite clue" is way older than Jack is.

Regards:Wayne

This is a crop from a photo by Azmula, posted some years ago, showing the same area from a different direction.

View attachment 914264

Not too difficult to see a "sombrero", is it ?

 

[393stroker]

Is that a valid attachment? I can`t see it. I can`t edit either.

 

[cactusjumper]

Howdy Joe,

I would not call the exact opposite, a pretty close match. Some people, including you, can't handle the truth, so what would be the point in presenting the exact view? My picture will remain my own for now.

Homar

Homar,

Yeah, that's probably true. Getting to the truth has never been something I strive for.

I would agree that your showing your picture from that area would be counterproductive........at least from your point of view.

Take care,

Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

Sorry Wayne, that's not the same crease.

Homar