Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

[mariner]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Darren,

Thanks. I actually do have a copy of Armstrong's report. I suppose that I had mentally dismissed those early Mexican bars because I was thinking about output from mines like Potosi. Too early in the day, out here, I guess.

Mariner

 

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[mad4wrecks]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Darren is that good looking guy holding the coin. I am that masked man underwater.

Cheers, Tom

 

[mariner]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Peerless,

Thanks for the AGI references. I remember looking at translations of the de Vera and Alcala records a couple of years ago, and am pretty certain that they did not describe the nature and value of the gold that the Santa Ana was carrying. I will have another look at them, though my Spanish is not good enough to comprehensively read these old records. I think I probably read them on one of these sites that provides translations of them, or might have read translations in one of Michael Mathes' books or papers, or in correspondence that we have exchanged from time to time.

Thanks again.

Mariner

 

[mariner]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Tom,

Sorry. It really was too early for me today!! I think I will go and have a nap!

Bob

 

[sphillips]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

The article indicates the galleons were attacked by English pirates near Cape San Lucas in lower California. Could the letters on the bar "SLM CO" mean "San Lucas Mining Co"? Just a thought, dont know if there was ever any mining in that area.

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Probably not. There is a reef near Borneo where Drake got stranded by the tide, and to slip off of it and prevent his hull from cracking, he threw 4 to 8 cannons off the Golden Hind to give it enough boyancy to be pulled off. I think a couple were later recovered by a local king.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Cuzco:
I heard a different version:
Drake dumped the guns to allow loading of spices that far exceeded the value of his guns, pound for pound.
And another version:
Six tons of cloves were loaded onto the ship. Later, half had to be tossed into the sea in order to free the ship from a reef.
Don....

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

http://www.indrakeswake.co.uk/Artefacts/cannons.htm

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Looking back, I note that I got into this same discussion about Drake four years ago:
http://www.treasurenet.com/f/index.php?topic=32927.0

 

[mariner]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Don,

Time flies when you are having fun. That previous thread more or less exhausted the discussion about Drake's lost guns, and anybody interested in the subject should just follow your link.

Mariner

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Mariner:
Imagine the thrill and value of finding one of Drake's cannons.....
Don........

 

[mariner]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Don,

On another thread recently, I posted a note about looking for a device that would penetrate through ten feet of salt-laden mud, in order to detect things like bronze cannons and silver bars. The wreck I am hoping is there is the ship that Drake took from Tello Rodrigo off Costa Rica, and left behind at New Albion when he went back to England. I am hoping that it might have been carrying a bronze cannon or two when it sank.

I am also hoping that it might contain some of the silver bars that Drake took from the Cacafuego.

We know that Drake left this ship behind from the testimony of his young cousin John, and it is easy to show that he had 85 people when he left Mexico and only 58-60 when he got to the East Indies. I believe that he left the other 25 along with the Tello bark, in order to winter on the Oregon coast and then continue the search for the fabled North West Passage.

Mariner

 

[FISHEYE]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

I have no problem holding a 70lb silver bar.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Mariner:
If you thinking about searching and salvaging anything along the California coast, I'm sure you'll first do your homework regarding the many agencies that you will be dealing with. And in the end, you may get stopped as Marx was in Drake's Bay or anyone today attempting to get in the area of the Brother Jonathan and other wrecks.
Don........

 

[mariner]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Don,

This wreck is on the Oregon coast, and I have been in regular contact with the State Archaeologist about it. You don't need permits here for carrying out remote sensing surveys, and if I can ever manage to establish the identity of this important wreck, then I don't suppose for a moment that I would be allowed to (or would want to) salvage it for profit. However, what a wonderful and important find it would be.

Incidentally, Drake was never in California. The only "evidence" that he was comes from the official Haklyuyt account, which places New Albion at 38 degrees. It is very easy to demonstrate that this account was deliberately falsified in at least five places, and the only two unpublished, hand-written detailed accounts of the voyage both place Drake's anchorage at 44 degrees, which is on the mid-Oregon coast. The official account was deliberately falsified to keep Drake's search for the North West Passage secret from arch-rivals Spain.

Mariner

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Mariner:
I would agree with your Oregon comment and it probably also applies to the State of Washington where there remains interest in one particular ship lost in the 1800s--but I digress from the thread--sorry.
Don....

 

[ghostdog]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

The article,POP Mech,says the" Content" went down in the California Headlands, this leads me to believe,after a little research, it could be somewhere off the coast of Marin county,Calif. I think there is a reef there,, where a number of ships dureing a storm have sunk,more than likely 1 on top of the other. The search area would probably be where the storm corridor is the strongest and constant to that location. Older weather data to present might be helpful. I am a land lubber, but I do enjoy all forms of treasure research.Gd luck in your searches.

 

[mariner]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

ghostdog,

Popular Mechanics can hardly be viewed as a reliable source for historic information.

Nobody knows yet what happened to the Content. She went missing immediately after the looting of the Santa Ana, and was never seen again, at least not by European eyes.

The "official" account of the voyage in Richard Hakluyt's 1589 edition of "Principall Navigations, Voyages and Discoveries of the English Nation" does not even mention her disappearance, and anybody reading it would conclude that the Content returned to England with the Desire. This was a deliberate misrepresentation, that I could address at some time.

The 1600 version, however, says "and night growing neere, we left the Content asterne of us, which was not yet come out of the road. And here thinking she would have overtaken us, we lost her companie and never saw her after." Later, in the East Indies, a pilot that Cavendish had taken out of the Santa Ana tried to send a letter to the Spanish Authorities saying that the Cointent had gone in search of the North West Passage. Cavendish hanged him. presumably this prisoner had overheard something. I can't think why he should have been lying.

The fate of the Content will remain a mystery until somebody finds the wreck, or her cargo. Last year, I posted on this forum pictures of a cast iron face mask of a woman, which I think is that of Queen Elizabeth, and which I think came from the Content. It was found on an Oregon beach. Also, about ten years ago now, somebody approached me with a story about somebody finding a cache of silver bars in a virtually inaccessible sea cave in the same area. This person claimed to have been shown and held one of the bars that was found, plus an engraved sword that was found with it. The sword was supposedly sent to the Smithsonian, who identified it as English and 16th century. They asked the finder to donate it, but he would not. My informant said that he had seen the sword and read the letter from the Smithsonian. I have been to the National Archives and tried to find a copy of the letter, but without success.

I have hit a blank wall in trying to trace the people involved in the find, and don't think there is enough evidence yet to start searching the Ocean in that area with detection devices.... too expensive without better information.

However, I am not sure how true the story is. That cave is now empty, but the silver was supposedly taken away by a group of miners from Arizona. That is why I was so interested in your photograph. Although it seems unlikely that a cache of silver should just lie in a sea cave undiscovered for centuries, there was a great earthquake off the Oregon coast in 1700 that caused the land to sink 6-10 foot into the Ocean. Thus a cave that was easily accessible in the late 1500s would have become almost inaccessible in the 1930s. I thought for a moment that your photo might have offered the break I have been hoping for, but I think not.

Good luck in your attempts to find the Content. Let us know if you find anything.

Mariner

 

[ghostdog]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

Mariner, I will post what I consider to be a very remote clue, thin at best.
The book,Who Murdered Frank Fish, page 13, gives a account of Frank Fish, finding evidince of a Engish settlement,not previously known,and items he found at this location. Frank dated the settlement to 1600,but could be earlier.This would be in Columbia,Calif,or vincity.One item he unearthed was a Spanish sword.Now,get out your map of Northern Calif.,place a straight rular on Columbia,Calif,with 1 end going to the ocean,this could be a good search area.

 

[mariner]

Re: Gold bars recovered in the 1930"s, 70 lbs+- average weight

ghostdog.

Interesting. It looks as if Fish's book is quite hard to get hold of, but I read a bit about him on the Internet, and I will try to find out why he thought it was an English settlement and why he thought that it dated from 1600. A Spanish sword hardly does it. I notice that Columbia is almost due east of Drakes Bay, and that Cermeno took a party inland in 1595 before returning to find that his ship had wrecked. I wonder what Fish considered a "settlement".

Thanks,

Mariner