Gold hunting metal detectors, which for a weekend hunter?

[Gold_Needle]

Hello all!,

Well, for a few years I have tried to win a metal detector on some website's contest but without luck.

I just might have to go out and buy one if I want to do any hunting.

The good thing about waiting all this time and reading posts at various sites and forums is that I have learned there is no one "all" detector. Each is strong in some areas and not so strong in others.

What I would like to hunt for is "gold." The price of gold has made weekend adventures worthwhile. Just a few ounces a weekend makes it a very good year. Also, as I live near beaches I would also like to do some beach combing with the detector.

So, the question is which metal detector for hunting nuggets and placer gold and some beach hunting

I would want it to go into the water and hunt as well. Not planning on falling into the surf or stream, just want it to be able to be submerged and hunt and not get damaged.

If you need more information about what I have in mind please ask.

Now, which do you all think would be a good detector or a few detectors to consider??

Looking forward to hearing your ideas and thoughts,

Thanks,
Gold Needle

P.S. Is it too much to hope that a detector is good at gold hunting and also finding meteorites?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Gold needle, there is no detector that finds ONLY gold. They will also find nails, foil, etc.... Unless you are in an area where human influence is very limited (middle of the desert, etc...) expect to find birdshot, nails, etc... when hunting nuggets.

As to a machine that can cross-over and .... one day you're hunting nuggets, and the next day you're hunting the beach: There are very few machines that can do that. The MXT is one "compromise" that comes to mind, but it excell in neither area. Ie.: there are better dedicated nugget machines, and there are better dedicated coin/jewelry machines. The reason is, the goals of each hobby (beach vs naturall occuring nuggets) are almost diametrically opposed to each other. The nugget hunter wants the electronics, coil design, etc... to find teensy (pin-head) nuggets. Nuggets, say, the size of your finger nail are very rare indeed. Most nuggets are tiny, and those that hunt them, get their net gold weight by many many of the more common teensy ones. But beach and coin hunters don't necessarily want the machine going off on every staple, BB, etc... They also want depth on coin and jewelry sized items.

Ironically, as sensitive as nugget hunters are to grain-of-rice sized targets, yet they don't find a coin any deeper (and perhaps shallower) than a dedicated coin machine. It has to do with the electronics and design, to achieve the goals of each pursuit. Thus, to make a machine that can flip back and forth with a switch, is no easy thing.

You can try the MXT, or .... get 2 machines: one dedicated to each.

 

[bakergeol]

Well as Tom has pointed out there is no one detector. As Tom suggests more than one detector will be the best solution. However, with these qualifications
1. can be used for nugget hunting
2. can be used at the beach
3. can be submerged

The Garrett Infinium(a PI) comes to mind. Typically as we look at machines that can do it all- usually there are better machines out there for one specific purpose. The Infinium is great at the beach but is not the best PI out there for nugget hunting.

Personally if one had the time ( several months away) I would wait for the Surfdevil to be released by Dave Emery.

P.S. I never won a detector on the Lost Treasure website either but folks do win.
George

 

[EasyMoney]

OOOOPS!

Wrong.

Go ask an MXT user. Or a GMT user.

Or an older Compass user. Those older Compasses were the absolute KING of nugget hunting for 10-15 years. Nothing could even get close to them, until the Fisher GoldBug came along. Compass also made the au 52 and au 2000 specifically designed primarily for nugget hunting. The au 2000 had two frequencies to chose from too, depending on which soil one hunted in..

There IS such a thing as "one detector". The MXT was originally the "White's Goldmaster GMT", a very serious nugget detector, one of the best. It has the same basic circuitry as the MXT.

The MXT has a relic mode, nugget mode, and coin mode, and much, much more. It is a VERY good nugget and coin detector, almost as good a nugget hunter as the Fisher Goldbug2 and the older Compass Goldscanner series. I give it a 4 1/2 out of 5 for nugget hunting compared to the GoldBug and the Scanners, not bad at all.

The White's MXT and the Compass Goldscanner and Relic & Coin detectors (both the same machine but designed with a different name so as to entice relic hunter's attention too) are AND were the best of all worlds of detecting, save for super-deep cache hunting and mostly beach hunting. They are THE SUPREME all-around detectors with the Compasses having a very slight lead, especially in target separation and discrimination. There is nothing else available that can match these two detectrors for this title. And they both have TID meters, plus the MXT has an iron % guage.

I have been to White's main factory here where I live and the Compasses side-by-side indoors or outdoors in all kinds of soil get better air test and slightly better ground depth in the bad ground here, but both the MXT and the Scanner series are "the all-around detector".

Minelab and Fisher, Tesoro, Nautilus, Garrett, etc can't even TOUCH them for this honor.

Yes, there IS one that "does it all", and there are two of them too. And the old Compass R&C that I own gets better depth than any Minelab Explorer II, SE, or Sovereign on dry land, and matches them on ocean beaches. It gets 14-16" air test on a nickel, depending on where it's tested. An MXT gets 12"

Hope this helps. And HH

 

[Willy]

I've gotta agree with the MXT being a bang-up gold detector. I used one up in Alaska's Brooks range in truly nasty ground and was popping nuggets down to 1/3 grain (I weighed them to be sure) with the 5x10" DD coil. That's hard core nugget detector territory. The XTerra 70 will match or exceed the MXT. Some Compass detectors will also match the MXT (like my X-100). If you're not going to be fully submerged, you might consider chest-mounting the detector. Most can, at the very least, be modified. ..Willy.

 

[Willy]

There are a few points to take into consideration. The first regards frequency and sensitvity to small gold vs. mineralization. Yes, the GMT could get down to 1/10 grain vs. 1/3 grain with the MXT, but it rapidly loses that ability when confronted with highly mineralized ground. 1/3 grain is pretty damn small and most detectors have no chance of seeing an object that small. There's ground that will shut down a high frequency detector so that it finds NO nuggets. Which, then, is the more capable nugget detector? High frequency alone doesn't necessarily make for a good gold detector. Another point, which ties into the previous one, is to look at ML PI's (or even a Garrett Infinium). They won't see anything as small as an MXT/GMT/GB2/X70 will, but are considered to be top gun nuggetshooters. Yup, they'll go deeper, in the appropriate ground, but if the criterion is sensitivity to small gold.. they then shouldn't be considered as nugget detectors, eh? As an aside, I've also used a CZ6a (10.5" coil and salt mode) with great success (nuggethunting in Ak) where other dedicated VLF gold detectors were unable to operate effectively. I even put a spanking on 2 other guys swinging ML SD2200d's. ..Willy.

 

[EasyMoney]

Au contrair Vito.

In fact, if you would contact George Payne, Eric Foster, Jack Gifford, and Keith Wills (one of the very finest of detector mod and repairmen in the world) and a host of other well-noted electrical engineers who design metal detectors, you will find that the higher frequencies are best used to find the very tiny nuggets, but do not do as well as the lower frequency, better ground penetrating, high gain larger nugget hunters finding larger nuggets. But, that is merely a "rule of thumb" as is attested to the fact that the smallest nugget ever found by a metal detector and documented and displayed was done by a Goldscanner Pro at 13.77 Khz, found in a 4" hunk of quartz and it being about the size of a "dot" on an "i". It is now displayed in a casino in Nevada somewhere. In fact, you are QUITE WRONG about this premise. It is a matter of electronics science (physics), and not of opinion.

As to the frequency changes from the GMT to the MXT I would suggest a quick call to White's Electronics in Sweet Home, Oregon. That will set the record straight so that you have the correct information.

It is really reasonably easy for me or any other tech to change the operating frequency of one circuit to another, and by using the very same circuit too and in the same box that it came out of. In fact, the truth is that I used to work on the design and production of White's detector circuitboards which was farmed out to one of the many electronics parts manufacturers in places throughout Oregon. A small transformer circuit is all that is needed to change the search frequency of a metal detector. In some detectors this is done by means of a pot sometimes, as in the case of a Nautilus or a Compass, both of which use "tuned coils", especially the Compasses. These two have a small circuitboard located inside the coil housing for this very purpose, or inside the control box.

The MXT was designed from the very circuit of the MXT and most people who have either one of them already know it.

My Goldscanner Pro and Scanner R&C both run at 13.77 and beat the pants off most nugget detectors running at higher freqs.

Give White's a call. Let me know what you find out

PS: Well spoken Willy. In fact, my cz-70 will find BB size nuggets at 4" and a GoldBug2 with it's extremely high frequency finds them at 6" just like my 13.77 Khz Compass. Frequency is not the only determining factor.

Electronics 101

 

[Ray in CA]

Don't let anyone tell you the MXT will not find tiny pieces of gold like the GMT, even with the 6x10 DD coil. That's all I found with my MXT (example below), but then again I probably didn't go over any deep gold while I had it.

The MXT is an amazingly smooth running machine over mineralized soils, and is also a great coin detector. The VDI on the display is very accurate excepting where it concerns mixed metals. Pull tabs are a pain to distinguish from a good target, but I suspect most other detectors have the same problem. But it is a great coin/jewelry and relic detector and the disc works pretty well. Can't go wrong with the MXT for what you want to do.

I loved my MXT but sold it to buy a Minelab 2100v2 because where I go prospecting most of the surface nuggets are pretty much hammered and I need a deeper sinking detector.

By the way, the nuggets below are about as small as I care to find them. They were barely a whisper (except the larger one) in my headset, which most detectorists would have probably ignored. But when I found these I was intent on finding gold in an area I had not yet found gold by detecting, so I was listening very carefully to every sound I came across and swinging the coil very slowly and meticulously.

If you want smaller nuggets you should be panning them, not detecting them.

Ray

 

[Willy]

I'm not an electronics engineer, but AFAIK the sensitivity of a detector is more dependent on the amplifiers and filters used than on the frequency. Also, coil voltage should make a difference (within inverse square or cubed(?) limits) and the specific frequency at which a particular metal shows most "reactivity". I suppose that one also has to take into account that most metals (naturally occurring or man-made) are alloys.. even gold. Here's a little something I dug up:The target signal returned to the receive coil can be thought of as composed of two components, one we call x and one we call r. The polarity of the x signal (its direction) tells us if the target is ferrous or non-ferrous. The r signal has only one polarity. Also, the ratio of the x and r signal tells us the target’s phase. In addition, the signal magnitude (which relates to sensitivity) of both x and r are a function of operating frequency.

A VLF detector by its very nature is only designed to respond to the r signal and ignore the x signal. Since the ground reaction primarily produces a x signal in the receive coil the VLF detector does not pick up the ground but only responds to the r signal of the target. Therefore, the VLF detector only needs the r signal for proper operation. However, for discrimination we need to measure both the x signal and the r signal to determine what the target is. Since we are using the x signal then we have to contend with the resultant ground signal pick-up.

The x and r target signals are frequency dependent and obey very predictable characteristics when the operating frequency changes. We know that the x component decreases as the operating frequency decreases. Above a certain frequency the x component reaches a maximum. The r component acts differently. It is maximum at one particular frequency and decreases if you go up or down in frequency. We call the special frequency at which the r signal is maximum, the target’s "-3db" frequency. It also turns out that at the -3db frequency the x signal is one-half of its maximum value. This special frequency is unique to each target and is different for different target.

The higher the conductivity of the target the higher will be the targets -3db frequency. Conversely, the lower the conductivity the lower the -3db frequency. The -3db frequency of the high conductivity target will also make the r signal peak at a high frequency, normally well above the operating frequency of the VLF detector. This will make the high conductivity target have lower sensitivity on the VLF detector because the r signal amplitude drops if we are significantly below the -3db frequency. Simply put, maximum sensitivity on a VLF detector would be if we position the operating frequency directly at the target’s -3db frequency. For example, a dime and penny have a -3db frequency of about 2.7KHz. This is where their r signal peaks and would be the best frequency for picking them up using a VLF detector. Nickels, on the other hand, have a -3db frequency, where its r peaks, at about 17KHz. Targets like thin rings and fine gold are higher still. Clearly there is no one frequency that is best for all these targets. The best you can do is have an operating frequency that is a compromise. Copyright ©2002, George Payne

Gary Finch on the best compromise frequency.

I've done a lot of research and field tests on this over the years, and the results have consistently indicated that a detector with an operating frequency between 10 and 15 KHZ does the best job on a wide variety of targets, from relics to gold nuggets. This is one reason Tesoro detectors are so popular as all around units.

My conclusions about operating frequency have come from years of tests, both the usual in-ground tests on buried targets, (which of course are always a little subjective, even in the most unbiased), and many scientific tests on buried targets to determine the amount of voltage response generated, using an oscilloscope and recorder, etc. (No big deal about this, I just wanted to learn the truth about it for myself, and had the necessary equipment).

I've talked with George Payne about this, and this was one reason why he designed the Treasure Baron as a 12.5 KHZ single frequency unit: after a lot of tests he came to the same conclusion. This was the optimum frequency for detecting all metals.
Pretty interesting, eh? ..Willy.

 

[EasyMoney]

Yes Willy, and I got about half way down reading it when I realized that it seemed a bit familiar. I have read this info before, but especially George's scrolls on coil configurations and how each one works and the different why's was what I was searching for at the time.

Yes, it's interesting to read. And yes too, that does explain a lot about how Tesoro detectors work so well in so many different soil applications. And yes too, when one familiarizes oneself well with the MXT it is an amazing detector, especially when fitted with an eliptical coil instead of the standard 9.5" which has a few problems with hotrocks. And that is another discussion.

HH Will

 

[Ant]

In a little over three years, I've found nearly a 1/2 lb of gold jewelry, over 80 finds (all on dry land). I use the Gold Bug 2. It finds coins and relics just as well. For small Gold, it’s the most sensitive dedicated Gold machine on the market. The GB2 won’t work on Cali’s wet black sand beaches, as is with most other machines besides PI machines.

I don’t dig much iron or nails. That’s because the GB2 can ID small bits of iron and it has a way to ID nails and similar shaped items. It has a long learning curve, but after it’s learned, it works great.

Not only are natural nuggets tiny, most of the gold jewelry we find is too. The DFX won’t find small gold chains and or bracelets that the GB2 will, I personally conducted test on this. Depth all depends on mineralization, the higher the mineralization, the less depth. Natural nuggets are mostly found in highly mineralized areas. Who wants to dig down 9” in rock hard caliche just to find a bullet anyway, not me?

To become a successful Gold hunter it takes dedication. It’s not like hunting for silver, which is much easier to find than Gold.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ant, you say "all on dry land" Just curious: for each piece of gold jewelry, how many pieces of aluminum are you having to dig? (foil, chopped tabs/can fragments) etc...?

 

[Ant]

Ant, you say "all on dry land" Just curious: for each piece of gold jewelry, how many pieces of aluminum are you having to dig? (foil, chopped tabs/can fragments) etc...?

That’s too variable of a question, so I’ll answer you like this.

The GB2 hits harder on small gold than the same size bits flat foil. The signal on small Gold ramps up and down with a smooth transition, unlike small bits of foil and the likes.

Coins give an identifiable signal too. I can ID pull tabs and other items by the subtle nuances that I’ve learned about the GB2.

I found 3 solid gold Sunday and one HGE ring with a huge fake ruby looking stone surrounded by fake diamonds.

Tom, if you look for silver, you find silver. If you look for Gold, you find Gold and Silver.

HH

Oh yeah, I only hunt on weekends. I have a full time job, that should tell you how much time spend at this hobby.

 

[Ant]

Hey Tom, this is common of what my targets look like when I hunt a demos looking for Gold and coins, about 50% trash to 50% keepers. When it comes to gold, pennies are keepers. But this is all subject to the area, you know what I mean.

Feel free to go to these links, they all had about 50:50 keeper to trash ratio. This is just a few to remind you, you can surf through my profile and see gobs more that I posted too.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,60201.msg431344.html#msg431344
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,65573.msg483496.html#msg483496
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,58711.msg416411.html#msg416411
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,66989.msg489274.html#msg489274
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,59561.msg430005.html#msg430005