Goood e-Trac, Goood e-Trac, Button Hoard!

[BioProfessor]

I have been looking for 19th century uniform buttons for a couple of years but just couldn't find them. And then there was yesterday!!!

Got permission to hunt a field just north of Guyton, GA. Sherman's army assembled about 6 miles north for his final assault of Savannah, GA. About 15,000 troops marched through Guyton over a 10 day period. Most of the area is closed to MDing by the State but there are still a few farm fields by the RR tracks that can be hunted. This field has probably been hunted by hundreds of people over the years. Didn't think there would be much there but I had no other place to go. Kinda glad I went.

This is NOT an ad for the e-Trac by holy crap. 3 hours in the field and I pulled 4 South Carolina Palmetto buttons (may be CW or may be 1870 Militia) and a Standing Liberty Quarter all at about 8-10". Now I'm all for depth and sensitivity but I dug about 40 targets in the field and only the aluminum slaw was 4" or less. This machine may kill me.

Daryl

 

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[woody50]

Really nice finds Daryl, just keep up the good work. I can understand that so much digging
is rough on you, but you just seem to keep going. I would think that a good shovel would
be important. How are the legs and back holding out?

I have had deep searching machines before and got tired of finding all that deep iron, sometimes
dug a couple of feet deep or even deeper. So gave up on the PI machines for normal hunting,
although still use them on the beach. I do use PI's for searching a searched out area on a great
field though, and just take my time then. (I am not saying that the E-Trac is a PI machine though).
On those places you dig then a bunch of iron.

 

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[woody50]

Holy Crap!!! I was curious of price for this button..wasn't sure if this is your button but the one is this link is not in very good shape as obviously dug an auction start bid was 600.00 an you found 4 maybe this should make Banner?? Congrats on your awesome finds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction_config.pl?noframes;read=273

Still don't understand why a good detectorist relates nice finds to $'s. Its the hobby and finds that
a person does NOT sell that make the collection great, not what they are worth. I think the worth
only shows the rarity of a find, and not what it means to find it.

 

[Baldingboy]

BANNER!!!

 

[Iron Patch]

Holy Crap!!! I was curious of price for this button..wasn't sure if this is your button but the one is this link is not in very good shape as obviously dug an auction start bid was 600.00 an you found 4 maybe this should make Banner?? Congrats on your awesome finds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction_config.pl?noframes;read=273

Look again, they are very different buttons.

 

[BioProfessor]

When a button used a backmark that spans a period of time. It is most times difficult if not impossible to tell exactly when a button was made and/or used. Sometimes it boils down to where the button was found and how that fits in with certain dates of activity.

So for a little information in that regard, here is what I know.

Daryl

 

[DKinPA]

Great day!! I agree this is banner worthy, but, if you're looking for pity for having to dig deep I think you came to the wrong place........LOL!!

Dave

 

[birdman]

Amazing finds!!!!!!!!

 

[BuckleBoy]

Darryl,

Saying that you found it in a known CW site is word-of-mouth. Still no guarantee of anything, really. (I'm not saying I don't believe you--but what I Am saying is that Correlation doesn't mean Causation. For some folks, everything is Colonial. For other folks, everything is CW. The site information doesn't prove anything. It makes certain things more likely, and other possibilities less likely. To me, it looks more like a housesite find--a coat that was thrown out. All I'm saying is that there is no way of knowing whether or not it was CW, based on the backmark, and that the button is valued accordingly. Your extra information is really not necessary, because it doesn't really mean anything. Your site information will not change the button's backmark any more than the fact that I found a CW sword belt plate at my KY button site could change the backmark of my KY buttons.

If this is a CW site--I want to know where the Lead finds are. You find 20 bullets for every button found in ANY Civil War site. And that Is a fact.


Best Wishes,


-Buckles

 

[BioProfessor]

Hi Buckles,

I never said that just because I found it in a Civil War site area it was Civil War. It is not "Word of Mouth" that there is a Civil War site within spitting distance of where the buttons were found any more than the Kennesaw, GA site is a "Word of Mouth" site. It is a State-Protected site. I have to assume that their records, maps, and data are better than mine. If they aren't convinced of its authenticity, they are spending a lot of resources on it for nothing. I don't think they have the money for it. Since it is protected, I can't hunt it. So I don't know what is there.

Where is the lead? Not where the buttons were. I can tell you where the cannon balls are. The guy that owns the land has quite a few and quite a few have been found by the neighbor in his plowed fields. Just because it was a training camp doesn't mean there was rifle/pistol use/practice. The belief in the area, based on the number of cannon balls that have been found, is that it was a camp for artillery training.

All I ever said or meant was that finding something that could be Civil War in an area known to have been an active Civil War site, adds to the likelihood that it COULD be civil war.

I am not saying that the backmark has to mean civil war. All I can say is that the site that gives the information about backmarks puts the manufacture of button backs with this backmark in the CW period. It could have been made during that period but not sold/distributed until later and it could be a SC Militia Button based on the date of usage - distributed in the 1870's maybe.

I have NEVER said anything about value. I have absolutely no interest in the value of the buttons. I never sell anything. Not even the $3000 coin I found. Just not why I detect.

Daryl

 

[BioProfessor]

Just one more thing Buckles,

I am not sure your ratio of bullets to buttons holds water everywhere. I hunted a Confederate site last week. There were 4 of us hunting. We found copper harmonica reeds, 2 ball buttons, 2 SC Palmetto buttons, 12 pewter buttons, 2 Eagle buttons, and one cuff button. Number of lead bullets - 1. I found 1 Enfield dropped button. Seems that in many Confederate camps, each soldier had to account for all the bullets they were issued each day at muster. Not many to find if there is a severe penalty for losing them.

Just my personal experience with a button to bullet ratio.

Daryl

 

[RELICDUDE07]

I dont think it was a lost coat,that just make no since to me ,unless you found them all in a 4 ft. area with fabric stuck to them..You said after 3 hours of searching ......And never posted how far apart you found them.Im sure it had alot of activity from the different troops over the years.I have never seen so many pocket spills in all my life as i see on tnet ,people think because they find 5 coins in the same area it must have been a pocket spill instead of 1 coin was lost in 1904 another in 1908 and 3 more in 1909 anyways i think if the dates are in the timeframe and you found them close to a state funded area works for me.... The lead bullet targets are always a easy target and first to go at a hunted out site ...

 

[BioProfessor]

We found five (4 for me - 1 for my hunting buddy) within 10 feet of each other. Just took us that much time to grid the area.

Daryl

 

[DD-777]

Nice finds.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Here is some news for you. According to Warren K. Tice's book, Uniform Buttons of the United States, 1776-1865, you have found a similar button to South Carolina Militia, Two Piece Cat No. SC262A2, used during the 1850's and 1860's.

The difference between yours and the one listed is that the book lists the back mark as "HORSTMANN BROS & CO. / PHILA" Yours has "PHIL", which makes it more likely 1870's.

According to other search results for the backmark "Input from other members on other forums citing Tice indicates it is probably more in the 1870-1880 time period".

That is still an awesome find!

 

[BioProfessor]

That fits.

Thanks!

Daryl

 

[BuckleBoy]

Hi Buckles,

I never said that just because I found it in a Civil War site area it was Civil War.  It is not "Word of Mouth" that there is a Civil War site within spitting distance of where the buttons were found any more than the Kennesaw, GA site is a "Word of Mouth" site.  It is a State-Protected site.  I have to assume that their records, maps, and data are better than mine.  If they aren't convinced of its authenticity, they are spending a lot of resources on it for nothing.  I don't think they have the money for it.  Since it is protected, I can't hunt it.  So I don't know what is there.

You misunderstand.  It IS word of mouth when Anyone online says that they found something in a "Civil War" site.  I could say that I found half my suspender clips in a Civil War site, but I'd be lying.  Some folks are selling "Suspender clips from CW sites" for 5-8 bucks each.  I guess that means I am a wealthy man.  

Word of Mouth really has nothing to do with what a find IS.  It is what it is, regardless of where it was found.  Where it was found May help ID a find, but when you get right down to it, anything can truly be found anywhere.

My whole city is a Civil War site.  There were many forts around the area to stop a confederate attack that never happened.  So just about anywhere in Louisville, from the Highlands, to Crescent Hill, to The University of Louisville, to Downtown and Old Louisville is within spitting distance of a Civil War site.  What does this mean? 

If you'd prefer to think of these finds as CW, then you should feel free to continue to think that, but all I can say in terms of ID of your buttons is that they are not CW time frame.

Again, see Tice for more information on your button.  It is in print, and it it is the best resource to use.


Best Wishes,


Buckles

 

[BuckleBoy]

Here is some news for you.  According to Warren K. Tice's book, Uniform Buttons of the United States, 1776-1865, you have found a similar button to South Carolina Militia, Two Piece Cat No. SC262A2, used during the 1850's and 1860's.

The difference between yours and the one listed is that the book lists the back mark as "HORSTMANN BROS & CO. / PHILA"  Yours has "PHIL", which makes it more likely 1870's.

According to other search results for the backmark "Input from other members on other forums citing Tice indicates it is probably more in the 1870-1880 time period".

That is still an awesome find!

Dang!  I forgot about the spelling of Philadelphia on the backmark.  Nice work.  Now Bioprof needs to get back out there and find the remaining button off that 1870s coat.

 

[AeroMike]

Daryl, I am speechless! you found not one but four of the button I have been after. All I want is a decent South Carolina and a decent Georgia button!!!!!!


Congrats, Daryl, you deserve it (even if you just recently found a medivel braclet )

 

[Sheldius]

This machine may kill me.

Daryl

Congrats. I agree, the E-trac is really a good machine. Finds much more than anything else I have used.

HH

 

[lairmo]

i would display those proudly!!!!