GW Inaugural Button in NC!! and a LC, IH, And A Couple Of Flat Buttons To Boot!

[JimBeHuntin']

Got out this past Saturday for my first hunt of the fall. Went to the site of an old farmstead that I researched last year. Have been waiting for cooler weather and the corn to be picked from this field. Spent about 3 hours zeroing in on the right location and then digging all signals. I was really happy with a nice Large Cent (but no readable date), a really rough IH (looks like 1901), a really rough wheat cent, two flat buttons, a suspender clip, a really corroded John Adams token, and other assorted stuff. It was a great afternoon out and I was pleased with the finds I made as a result of my research. Thanks for looking! Jimmy


PS: It turns out that the large button is a George Washington Inaugural button and my best find to date. Through keen observation from a tough photo ... these button experts made a great ID. Thanks to JohnnyI, Don in SJ, Iron Patch, Vermont Packrat, and everyone that helped with the Id ... I was totally unaware and was under the impression that it may be a "Dandy button". I have included a few new photos taken in sunlight but I opted not to attempt any cleaning at this time. Thanks again for the help and for taking time to care.

 

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[Don in SJ]

Congrats on joining the club Jim! Well Done!!

Update...I just checked Albert's book, Cobb's information and every piece of info I have (dozens of recent finds within the last 4 years) and that border is not on any GW buttons shown in any of the collections I have seen. You may have a new find! I am going to see a fairly large collection in about 3 hours from now and I will check to see if there is such a border in this collection. Stay tuned...I'll get back to ya!

I already mentioned that in my first post about the border 8), but does anybody else see the possible double strike of the Eagle?

Don

 

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[Iron Patch]

Re: GW Inaugural Button in NC!! and a LC, IH, And A Couple Of Flat Buttons To Bo

Congrats on joining the club Jim! Well Done!!

Update...I just checked Albert's book, Cobb's information and every piece of info I have (dozens of recent finds within the last 4 years) and that border is not on any GW buttons shown in any of the collections I have seen. You may have a new find! I am going to see a fairly large collection in about 3 hours from now and I will check to see if there is such a border in this collection. Stay tuned...I'll get back to ya!

I already mentioned that in my first post about the border 8), but does anybody else see the possible double strike of the Eagle?

Don

Yep, if you're talking about the the few points above, and over a bit, from the top right of the shield.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Great find Jim I bet you have trouble sleeping now I think you need to get back there, and give it a good looking at, could there be more of them

SS

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: GW Inaugural Button in NC!! and a LC, IH, And A Couple Of Flat Buttons To Bo

Congrats on joining the club Jim! Well Done!!

Update...I just checked Albert's book, Cobb's information and every piece of info I have (dozens of recent finds within the last 4 years) and that border is not on any GW buttons shown in any of the collections I have seen. You may have a new find! I am going to see a fairly large collection in about 3 hours from now and I will check to see if there is such a border in this collection. Stay tuned...I'll get back to ya!

I already mentioned that in my first post about the border 8), but does anybody else see the possible double strike of the Eagle?

Don

I'm not seeing it, but I never decide after just looking once. Sometimes with the second or third view it jumps out at you.

 

[hogge]

Checked the same info as Don. There is no border like it in either collection. I am also seeing the double strike. If you look to the left, of the left wing, it also appears there is another wing also. Probably stuck off center, to the left, and tried to be fixed. Awesome find and WELCOME to the GWI Club! Hogge

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: GW Inaugural Button in NC!! and a LC, IH, And A Couple Of Flat Buttons To Bo

It's starting to look like this was a crude attempt struck over a designed civilian button.

How does the size compare to most GWs?

 

[VERMONTPACKRAT]

Re: GW Inaugural Button in NC!! and a LC, IH, And A Couple Of Flat Buttons To Bo

It's starting to look like this was a crude attempt struck over a designed civilian button.

How does the size compare to most GWs?

When I get home from work tonight I will give up some measurements from mine. My button is missing the back shank, but I will weigh it also.

VPR

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: GW Inaugural Button in NC!! and a LC, IH, And A Couple Of Flat Buttons To Bo

It's starting to look like this was a crude attempt struck over a designed civilian button.

How does the size compare to most GWs?

When I get home from work tonight I will give up some measurements from mine. My button is missing the back shank, but I will weigh it also.

VPR

I'm curious, but I don't think it will be a big help because they probably vary a couple of mm. What is a shame it's not better.... but is what it is!

 

[VERMONTPACKRAT]

As Iron Patch said, this probably will not be much help....

1 3/8 inch, Exactly... Sorry I dont really have a better way to measure.

5.8 grams. No back shank.

VPR

 

[nova treasure]

Excellent finds ,

Nova Treasure

 

[johnnyi]

Don, I see what you're looking at on that double strike. (I also see now that what appeared to my eyes to be a feather was the illusion of the wing and apparently some abrasion). What makes me doubt the double strike is that in the light of day picture there are large patches pitting visible, and also the curious "feather" illusion that extends below the wing and corresponds to nothing in the design elements. Could what appears to be a second head be pitting? (I should learn by now that your eyes are generally better than mine .....but?)

At any rate, you pointed out already the difference in the border, which by itself makes this button unique, and I believe tied with three others as the rarest of all George Washington inaugural buttons!

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: GW Inaugural Button in NC!! and a LC, IH, And A Couple Of Flat Buttons To Bo

Don, I see what you're looking at on that double strike. (I also see now that what appeared to my eyes to be a feather was the illusion of the wing and apparently some abrasion). What makes me doubt the double strike is that in the light of day picture there are large patches pitting visible, and also the curious "feather" illusion that extends below the wing and corresponds to nothing in the design elements. Could what appears to be a second head be pitting?

At any rate, you pointed out already the difference in the border, which by itself makes this button unique, and I believe tied with three others as the rarest of all George Washington inaugural buttons!

So are there GW patterns only separated by any slight difference? Basically what I'm getting at is a pattern vs a variant. If this was a Rev military button it would be looked at as a variant and even though the collectors would like it, I don't think they'd be over the moon. But being a new GW pattern/type, that tends to say new discovery and very collectible. My personal opinion is the different border isn't that interesting to go as far as saying it's now among the rarest known, but I liked to hear any voice in favor of it. Like I said, or at least meant to imply, I know very little about GW buttons and maybe seeing it through Rev War button eyes isn't the right way to look at it? Thoughts anyone?

 

[Bubba65]

Great Hunt Jim way to go on GW button Banner to me!!!!!!!!!

Bubba65

 

[johnnyi]

"So are there GW patterns only separated by any slight difference? Basically what I'm getting at is a pattern vs a variant. If this was a Rev military button it would be looked at as a variant and even though the collectors would like it, I don't think they'd be over the moon. But being a new GW pattern/type, that tends to say new discovery and very collectible. My personal opinion is the different border isn't that interesting to go as far as saying it's now among the rarest known, but I liked to hear any voice in favor of it. Like I said, or at least meant to imply, I know very little about GW buttons and maybe seeing it through Rev War button eyes isn't the right way to look at it? Thoughts anyone?"

Patch, you make a good point, however on the GW buttons the variants, such as differences in borders, are listed with their own rarity number. For instance a WI 12 has variant "A" which has a border of 49 marks and is rarity 6, while variant C of the same button with a border of 63 marks is a rarity 2. etc.

 

[vayank54]

Some really cool finds. Congrats on the GW button. I found one years ago. I was digging an old house site in a field and got a signal that turned out to be an Eagle C button. While I was looking at it I noticed a big flat button sticking out of the ground. I glanced at it and put it in my pouch. I didn't realize it was a GW until after I got home.

 

[Admiral de Salee]

Re: GW Inaugural Button in NC!! and a LC, IH, And A Couple Of Flat Buttons To Bo

I haven't been watching this forum much in the past several months ('my Awful').
I'm glad I got back here today to see a GW Inaugural button, and possibly a very rare one.
CONGRATULATIONS!!

 

[IronSpike]

GW Banner Button

My vote is in

 

[romeo-1]

That's the best kind of find...one you didn't even know you had until later! Everytime I dig a crusty copper and cannot tell what it is in the field I always tell myself that it is the rarest of the rare and will confirm that when I get home...hasn't happened yet...except for a key date dime.

Wish I could add more to the discussion but I know nothing of these GW buttons except that I would be over the moon if I found one! Great find!!

 

[johnnyi]

"PS: It turns out that the large button is a George Washington Inaugural button and my best find to date. Through keen observation from a tough photo ... these button experts made a great ID. Thanks to JohnnyI, Don in SJ, Iron Patch, Vermont Packrat, and everyone that helped with the Id ... I was totally unaware and was under the impression that it may be a "Dandy button". I have included a few new photos taken in sunlight but I opted not to attempt any cleaning at this time. Thanks again for the help and for taking time to care."

Taking the time to care? Are you kidding, when you find something like this it's a thrill for all of us. It's like Christmas! so thank you! One thing though, stick Don's name up there in big letters because were it not for his eyes, I'd probably be looking at a lady in a skirt with one wing sitting by the sun with a feather in her toes By the way, it's not only "your best find to date", because as far as statistical rarity goes, (one known!) its anybody's best find to date!

 

[RelicRick]

Congrats on joining the club Jim! Well Done!!

Update...I just checked Albert's book, Cobb's information and every piece of info I have (dozens of recent finds within the last 4 years) and that border is not on any GW buttons shown in any of the collections I have seen. You may have a new find! I am going to see a fairly large collection in about 3 hours from now and I will check to see if there is such a border in this collection. Stay tuned...I'll get back to ya!

Hey guys...I have some updates as promised. First, I checked a very extensive GW collection belonging to a female friend of mine and there was no similar border at all on any of her buttons. I described the border to her and she had never seen or heard of that kind of border and she has been in "the game" for over 40 years.

I then had two other very formidable GW collectors check out this thread and I received the following response, "...We have talked about this a fair bit over the years. We don't think these things were made like coins...ie...pressed out by the thousands. Rather, maybe silver or blacksmiths would make them with punches and tool the borders and such by hand. If you remember that binder I showed you, there were dozens of similar buttons with identical main punches but slightly dissimilar dentification, borders and reverses, so what is a variety (if you see where we are going)?"

So that is what I have so far folks...I hope it helps. Happy hunting!