has montezumas tomb been found ...?

[kanabite]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

you see this is what you wrote to me , this is what you replied to my e mail : what am I suppose to think ? change your story if you will > explain your self if you must , i do not care . you have no power over me . tell them the things you see anyone could do if they only knew how. it is not magic it is knowledge. tell them all how you and you alone did some great and wondrous thing here, tell them to give you glory . i do not want those things . they are not mine to claim . i am a servant not a master , and i have been humbled.

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« Sent to: kanabite on: Feb 16, 2008, 05:31:38 AM » Quote Reply To This Topic Remove

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dont worry my friend i am william the commer , secound son of the creator,brother of christ ..yes many will die but not you and not me ...not now not then .. some day yes, some day no ...you say you under stand , then know me for who i am , i am montazzuma ,i am the 6000 years old shaman . i am back and yes they will answer for what they have done to mother earth ...
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" have i lost my way ? or am i just a being of lost ways ? "
© the blindbowman ,2007

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[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

...LOL ..da ....hahahahahha

beleive what someone tells you over the web and you prove your IQ before the ink is dry ! lol .....i knew what you would do , when i replyed ...


and you did ..

LOL ... as great as you want to beleive you are ask your self, why would i save you ?... why would i save me ....?


your a troll and troll are bitter ...

i dont care who you report the reply to .. you are the one that emailed me troll ..i am makeing fun of you .....now get your loser ass out of my post , .. you will do anything to try to slow down what is happening ,, thats good to know, i hope your infront of this large rock when it passes over what is left of you .... lol

think about what i said to you ...what if i have only told you the truth ,, ? lol

dont worry be happy , why it last !

your so much smarter then i am mighty Kanabite , then ask your self if site #1 is the real montezuma's tomb .and worth over 5 billion dollars why would i just give it away ....? or did i ...?

i enjoy rolling playing this is very very true is it a tool far beyond you .......and i am one of the best at it .. becareful it dosent make you say something that cost you your life ...i am a passifest and will not harm anyone .but there are many eyes out there that are watching ......
i see them danceing in the rocks above and they will be waiting for people like you ...

how could anyone fall for your act .... you suck at acting .....


it dose not matter what i beleive , its what my action cause that counts .. action reaction .....!

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

when this is all done and over , the fact will be truth and i will have discoverd the sites and they will be the real truth .... i do not want what you beleive i do ...watch and learn

your eyes can lie to you just as well ...

see my god is not the lie that was told to you , he has made me what i am and i do not beleive what they tell you . i beleive what i feel and know is the truth ...i am a touchnull , i felt what happend to christ . i have lived it ....hide human ,hide why you can ...christ ask god as his dieing wish to forgive the human race and God is held to his word , thats why he created me . i am not God , I anit christ ...LOL....LOL ...---...!

and he shell throw vast wealth at your ft and it shell own mankind .. and when you need him most he shell stand and watch as you did when his brother was dieing on the cross ..."open your eye you want to see what is comeing "

 

[kanabite]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

rage if you will , i am sorry ,i do not wish to cause you pain . you told me you were a shape shifter . the Navajo might call you a skin walker. i do not know . but i think you will not like the answer to what you seek. after all ,you claim i know nothing ,and you know it all. i will still pray for you . i hope you find peace my Indian brother .it is not a game . it is not an act .it is genuine concern . i will leave you now, to do what you will . because i want nothing from you .thank you for your time .

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

who i am dose not matter , I am a faceless being beyond what is seen , I am the godling within, as are we all ... i am no one ,i am unknown to your reality


i do not know it all ,or i would not be here ...

the echo is comeing....

walk in peace my friend ,walk why you can ...soon the great waters well come apone the earth ,and you will cry out ....and the echo will have meaning ...

and i shell not answer your crys . i can not hear them over those of my brother ...., he has showed me what it is like to be older then the earth and the heavens ....

behold your lost is not lost . his only son is not his only creation ! behold his word is the truth ...I anit christ ! how much he must hate the human race to have created me ....

 

[BILL96]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

BB,
You are so full of sh*t. I have tried to put you on ignore but you are just so damn funny I can't help myself, I keep coming back for a daily chuckle. You are better than the funny papers, You are really good , and don't forget to take that medication.
Bill

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

BB,
You are so full of sh*t. I have tried to put you on ignore but you are just so damn funny I can't help myself, I keep coming back for a daily chuckle. You are better than the funny papers, You are really good , and don't forget to take that medication.
Bill

shaaaa..... they well catch on ...



LOL everythings fair for a good laugh.....


i guess i am doing what i love Most ... enjoying life it self ....

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

rage if you will , i am sorry ,i do not wish to cause you pain . you told me you were a shape shifter . the Navajo might call you a skin walker. i do not know . but i think you will not like the answer to what you seek. after all ,you claim i know nothing ,and you know it all. i will still pray for you . i hope you find peace my Indian brother .it is not a game . it is not an act .it is genuine concern . i will leave you now, to do what you will . because i want nothing from you .thank you for your time .

navajo skin walker ...just another in the pack ,,,

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Greetings everyone,

While I probably have no business getting involved in this thread, I have a little bit to add. It appears that the discussion drifted quite far from the subject and there are some ruffed feathers, so let us take a step back, sip a fresh coffee (or cold brew if that is your personal preference) and remember that we do have many common interests, regardless of our differences.

I am not one of those altruistic types who turn up their noses at the thought of finding a mass of treasure, rather quite the opposite - I think finding a treasure is one of the greatest "rushes" one can get in life, far better than anything you can get out of a bottle or drug! Heck I still get a 'rush' out of panning out a gold nugget, or un-earthing a silver quarter when I was expecting a pull tab. As much as I enjoy treasure hunting, I do try to keep at least one foot on the ground and do diligent research before spending my time in the field. This brings me to my issues:

The lost tomb of Montezuma being in the Superstitions of Arizona? I have a hard time 'wrapping my mind' around that idea, as the Superstitions are quite a distance from Mexico City, where Montezuma had his throne. I will grant that it is POSSIBLE but it will take a good deal of evidence to convince me - and I am in agreement with our mutual friend Scott (Wood) that I have not seen anything in the Superstitions that is undeniably Aztec. There is a legend of the treasure of Montezuma being hidden in Arizona, but that legend does not point to the Superstitions, but to a mountain known as Montezuma Head which is in the Sierra Estrella (CORRECTION) - AJO mountains (AZ). I know of no such legend that points to Montezuma's treasure being hidden in the Superstitions.

Aztlan in the Superstitions? Again I find that I have a difficult time absorbing this idea as a possibility. I will grant that it is POSSIBLE but in this case as in the tomb of Montezuma, there are other locations which would suffice to fit the legend and easier to accept, for me. I don't see why Aztlan should be located in the Superstitions, but who knows?

Blindbowman mi amigo it SEEMS that over time, you have been trying out quite a variety of different theories as to what it is you believe you have discovered, ranging from the Lost Dutchman mine to Templar treasure, and the tomb of Montezuma, Aztlan etc and in each case there are problems with the various types of proof/evidence that is needed to make the case to the public. What might be enough evidence to convince you (personally) is likely not the same level of evidence that historians/archaeologists etc are going to demand before they will grant you the acknowledgement / honor / recognition /awards / fame you seek. You once posted something like "remove all labels" and this advice is excellent advice - for it SEEMS that you have been trying to make the discoveries you have "fit" with one theory or another, and have then found problems with each theory. I suggest that instead of taking the position that what you have found IS the tomb of Montezuma, Aztlan etc and then trying to make the evidence fit that idea, you first assemble and study all the evidence you have gathered, THEN examine every possibility so as to be able to rule out those which will not "fit" - like the old fictional detective Sherlock Holmes said, 'once you remove everything that is impossible, what remains must be the truth'. (Paraphrasing here, not an exact quote)

The tomb of Montezuma is quite a mystery, since he died while in the hands of the Spaniards, it seems probable that he was simply buried or cremated within the courtyards of the palaces where the Spaniards were being housed. As for the treasure of Montezuma - that is quite another case! The story goes that the treasure was packed off away from the capital, possibly north (a logical course considering that the neighboring tribes on all other 'fronts' were quite hostile to the Aztecs) where the Spaniards never found it. I suggest that you (or anyone interested) read the story of the legend of Montezuma Head... 8)

As for the location of Aztlan, is it not just possible that Aztlan is one and the same with Atlantis, and thus ought to be located out in the Atlantic Ocean, where it lies submerged today? I have read several versions of the tale of Aztlan, and one of those is almost the same story told by Plato for Atlantis, but from the opposite direction. A major problem with locating Aztlan in the Superstitions is there is no large body of water (like an ocean) lying between those mysterious mountains and Mexico City (then known as Tenochtitlan, the capital of the Aztec empire). Of course some simply point to the lake that surrounded Tenochtitlan as the "sea" crossed by the ancestors of the Aztecs, but crossing a lake is hardly such an epic incident that it would have been recorded in the oral sagas of the Aztec people.

Of course I could be completely wrong, and this is all just my own views. Good luck and good hunting my friends, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek - whether monetary or otherwise!
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[BILL96]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Oro,
I never did understand just why BB ever thouth that Montezuma was buried in the superstitions. You seem like a very well read guy, did the spanish ever mention what happened to Montezumas body after his death? it seems that they would have known and maybe jotted it down somewhere.
Bill

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Oro,

"The tomb of Montezuma is quite a mystery, since he died while in the hands of the Spaniards, it seems probable that he was simply buried or cremated within the courtyards of the palaces where the Spaniards were being housed."

Montezuma's body was turned over to the Aztecs.

Take care,

Joe

 

[BILL96]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

CJ,ORO
Don;t you think that the death and burial of such an important person would have been documented. This was the like trhe death of the president. The aztecs must have documented the burial or cremation. Even after his death the Aztec people and culture must have continued for some time. I'm sure their world was in turmoil but it was a huge empire, it must have taken many more years to completely collapse. It's a fasinating subject, need to do a litle more reading.

Bill

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Bill,

According to Bernal Diaz, who was there, Montezuma was killed by being struck with three stones thrown by his own people. He had been trying to calm them and they jeered him. After he died, they were given his body.

For the Aztec account of this event, you could read "The Broken Spears: The Aztec Account of the Conquest of Mexico".

I don't believe there is any documentation of what happened to Montezuma's body. If he was being jeered by his own people and, possibly, was the target of the stones, his body may not have been treated with respect after his death.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[BILL96]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Joe,
Found it, ordered it, look forward to reading it.
Thanks,Bill

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

you were all haveing to much fun makeing jokes to under stand the data being give to you ...




Montezuma(mythology)
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Montezuma was the name of a heroic-god in the mythology of certain Amerindian tribes of the Southwest United States, notably the Tohono O'odham and Pueblo peoples — not to be confused with the two historical Aztec Emperors of the same name in Mexico, Moctezuma I and Moctezuma II.

In the Tohono O'odham legend, at the beginning of time the Great Spirit finds clay by digging a hole; he then drops the clay into the hole again and out comes Montezuma, who assists him in bringing out all the Indian tribes, with the Apache last of all. It is said that all men and animals were speaking a common language in the early days; however a great flood destroyed everyone, with only Montezuma and his friend, Coyote, escaping. Because Coyote had warned him of the flood beforehand, Montezuma had fashioned a boat that he kept prepared on the peak of the Santa Rosa Mountains in Arizona. Coyote likewise made a boat for himself, by gnawing down a giant cane and stopping it with gum.

After the flood had subsided, Montezuma and Coyote meet again atop Monte Rosa, and Montezuma sends Coyote out four times, once in each direction, to find out how far the sea is. He quickly returned from the south and the west, reporting that it was nearby. The journey east took a bit longer, but eventually he found the sea there also. Finally, he journeys northward and never finds water before growing tired.

Meanwhile, the Great Spirit, helped by Montezuma, has again repopulated the world with people and animals. Montezuma is entrusted with the governance of mankind, but becoming proud and wicked, he rebels against the Great Spirit, dismisses Coyote, and commands mankind to build a house tall enough to reach Heaven. Before he can succeed at this endeavour, the Great Spirit casts it down with thunderbolts, causing a confusion in the languages of mankind.

Persisting in his wickedness, Montezuma commands all the temples be destroyed; in response, the Great Spirit punishes him by sending a locust to the east to summon the Spanish, who make war on Montezuma and destroy him.

This legend was related by chief Con Quien of the Tohono O'odham and published in the Indian Affairs Report of 1865, p. 131.

In 1694, natives told Jesuit Father Eusebio Francisco Kino that Montezuma built these cliff dwellings, now preserved as Montezuma Castle National Monument.Bancroft, writing later in the 19th century (Native Races vol 3), speculates that the name of the historical Aztec Emperors Moctezuma (more properly Motecuhzoma in Nahuatl) was the ultimate origin of the mythical hero-god's name — the name being "gradually associated in the minds of some of the New Mexican and neighboring tribes, with a vague, mythical, and departed grandeur", until "all the lesser heroes would be gradually absorbed in the greater, and their names forgotten. Their deeds would become his deeds, their fame his fame."

However, other references among the Arizona and New Mexico tribes indicate a belief in "Montezuma" as having been the name of a great king and law-giver of the remote past, who ruled over a vast empire including Mexico, and who is said to be buried inside a particular mountain in Arizona that allegedly bears his image.

Montezuma also figures prominently in the religion of the Pueblo Indians, who held that their god-king Montezuma was variously from Taos, Acoma, or one of the other pueblos, and was conceived from a beautiful virgin and a pinyon pine nut. Although weak as a youth, he was chosen to be their unlikely leader, and surprised everyone with his miracles, including the ability to produce rain. He taught the people their customs, and how to build the adobe pueblos. One day he kindled a fire that they were never to allow to burn out, then departed for Mexico (in some versions, on the back of an eagle), promising to return some day and save them from the Spanish.

U.S. Attorney W.W.H. Davis, who visited the Laguna Pueblo in 1855, was allowed a rare glimpse at some sort of idol or icon of their god Montezuma, whereof he gave a vivid description in his book El Gringo. According to Davis, this object was round, nine inches tall and in diameter, and made of tanned skin. The cover was painted half red and half green, and on the green side were triangular holes for eyes, round pieces of leather for the mouth and ears, and no nose. He said it was kept wrapped in cloth, and was sprinkled with a 'white powder'.

The Swiss-American ethnographer Adolph Bandelier asserted in the 1890s that these legends had been invented by the Pueblos fifty years earlier solely to impress American explorers, and were not really part of their religion; he cited a document purporting to be a secret plot to 'teach' the natives that they were the descendants of Emperor Montezuma for political purposes, during the Mexican-American War. However, other documents have since come to light showing that the Spanish too were quite aware of Montezuma's renown in the Pueblo region long before then — the earliest such recorded reference dating to 1694, when the natives told Jesuit Father Eusebio Francisco Kino that Montezuma had built what is still today known as Montezuma's Castle (Wilson 1999, p.16).

Finally, Llewellyn Harris, a Welsh-American Mormon missionary who visited the Zuni in 1878, claimed that they told him they were descended from Montezuma, who was himself descended from white men called "Cambaraga" who came from over the sea 300 years before the Spanish, and that they still had many Welsh words in their language (see Madoc for many more tales along this theme). However, these much more sensational claims have never been independently verified.


Montezuma also figures prominently in the religion of the Pueblo Indians, who held that their god-king Montezuma was variously from Taos, Acoma, or one of the other pueblos, and was conceived from a beautiful virgin and a pinyon pine nut. Although weak as a youth, he was chosen to be their unlikely leader, and surprised everyone with his miracles, including the ability to produce rain. He taught the people their customs, and how to build the adobe pueblos. One day he kindled a fire that they were never to allow to burn out, then departed for Mexico (in some versions, on the back of an eagle), promising to return some day and save them from the Spanish.

U.S. Attorney W.W.H. Davis, who visited the Laguna Pueblo in 1855, was allowed a rare glimpse at some sort of idol or icon of their god Montezuma, whereof he gave a vivid description in his book El Gringo. According to Davis, this object was round, nine inches tall and in diameter, and made of tanned skin. The cover was painted half red and half green, and on the green side were triangular holes for eyes, round pieces of leather for the mouth and ears, and no nose. He said it was kept wrapped in cloth, and was sprinkled with a 'white powder'.

The Swiss-American ethnographer Adolph Bandelier asserted in the 1890s that these legends had been invented by the Pueblos fifty years earlier solely to impress American explorers, and were not really part of their religion; he cited a document purporting to be a secret plot to 'teach' the natives that they were the descendants of Emperor Montezuma for political purposes, during the Mexican-American War. However, other documents have since come to light showing that the Spanish too were quite aware of Montezuma's renown in the Pueblo region long before then — the earliest such recorded reference dating to 1694, when the natives told Jesuit Father Eusebio Francisco Kino that Montezuma had built what is still today known as Montezuma's Castle (Wilson 1999, p.16).

Finally, Llewellyn Harris, a Welsh-American Mormon missionary who visited the Zuni in 1878, claimed that they told him they were descended from Montezuma, who was himself descended from white men called "Cambaraga" who came from over the sea 300 years before the Spanish, and that they still had many Welsh words in their language (see Madoc for many more tales along this theme). However, these much more sensational claims have never been independently verified.




this is the statement i was refering to ...
:However, other references among the Arizona and New Mexico tribes indicate a belief in "Montezuma" as having been the name of a great king and law-giver of the remote past, who ruled over a vast empire including Mexico, and who is said to be buried inside a particular mountain in Arizona that allegedly bears his image."

there is something you should know

it is IMHO my under standing of the events that took place ,that the vatcan was despanding the templar for a very hidden reason ... they had try to delite and record of native savages (or beast) be related to god fearing people of their chruch and religion . mainly trying to delite any dirrect link to the bible and book of Revelation

"and there well be 7 bowls that will pore out over the land .the 7 cibola sites ....and there well be 7 seals ,the saven caves of chicomoztoc . the 7th cave of chicomoztoc is still sealed .you do not have to beleive me , they do not have to grant me the permits .i can brake the 7th seal any time i wish and what you beleive or they beleive will not stop the Revelation .....

the bowl have been found and they are poreing out they have been made public .......the Ray dillman wax stamp was the seal of the templar that sealed the scoll of life . IMHO it is a record of bloodlines dateing back into the native american tribes ...this is what i beleive the chruch was tying to cover up ...when the templar found the scolls on the temple mont , the chruch want to destroy them and the templar woud not let them ....

can i prove this . i have no idea yet .. but if i brake the seal you will know with out a dout ...if i am right or wrong ......if the human race wants me to open the 7th seal . just say so . if you dont beleive thats ok .. i have a hard time beleiveing it as well ...

see there is a logical reason why i know what i know.....no this is not a joke ...7 bowls (bola) ,7 houses (caves ) 7 seals...

go ahead ,call me names tell me how much you know and what i dont know .. give me a reason to open the 7th seal ....i dis like the human race to start with .

say whats on your mind why you still can....

...you could cause 6.35 billion people to vanish ... what do you have to say now ...


welcome to Revelations ....

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Bill,

I believe you will enjoy the book. It comes from a unique perspective, with an understandable bias in telling the history from the Aztec viewpoint.

The book is quoted in many historical works. Here is one:

[The Spaniards remained in Tenochtitlán for at least four days before undertaking one of the more symbolic events of the conquest: taking Moctezuma prisoner. The Spanish justified this by arguing that the Aztecs had attacked Spanish forces at Veracruz. The seizure of Moctezuma followed established Spanish patterns employed in the Caribbean and introduced during their early days on the mainland. But the Aztec society was so complex, that the empire did not fall with his arrest. Francis J. Brooks writes that although Moctezuma was clearly a prisoner of the Spanish, the "political structure remained largely intact." Perhaps the population did not understand that their leader was a prisoner. The Aztec account, found in The Broken Spears, reveals that the other principal chiefs were angry at Moctezuma after he capitulated to the Spanish arrest; they "no longer revered or respected him." Cortés later explained that Moctezuma ruled "in the style of a prisoner." Dissatisfaction manifested itself in a variety of ways; not insignificantly, few Aztecs visited their leader. They adjusted to his capture but soon disagreed over how they should act. Were they to continue their functions with their lord as a prisoner, or were they to resist the Spanish challenge to their state? In the end, resistance evolved over the continued demands by the Spanish for more gold and for the Aztecs to end the practice of human sacrifice. Even as the arrest of Moctezuma provided the opportunity for the Aztec political leaders to consider changes within the Aztec political infrastructure, another event accelerated these changes.]

The History of Mexico by, Burton Kirkwood

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

"...you could cause 6.35 billion people to vanish ... what do you have to say now ..."

I would say we are all, rightfully, skeered. Please reconsider this cataclysmic move.



Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

go ahead ,call me names tell me how much you know and what i dont know .. give me a reason to open the 7th seal ....i dis like the human race to start with .

say whats on your mind why you still can....

...you could cause 6.35 billion people to vanish ... what do you have to say now ...


welcome to Revelations ....

You lost me on that one BB - I'm familiar with the book of Revelations, but your reference is far too esoteric for me.

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

i am just the one that found it , you are so smart yu tell me what it is .. this IMHO is what it is i have relate scoll with seven seal with the same masonic mark as the one found by Ray dillman ,, . you tell me how it got in the 7th cave ...? your so damn smart lets hear your answer....? i am just doing research of the sites and evidence i found .. what this scoll has to do with the chruch i dont know what its about . but they wanted it at all cost ...

if you dont know what revelations is i feel sorry for ya ...LOL .. i was just pionting out the common facters between these sites and revelations and the fact these could be what the cruch was looking for ...

your welcome to your own opioions . if this is not the 7th seal in the book of revelations you can lol at me if your wrong you and a vast amont of the human race could vanish from the face of the earth ...i wont judge anyone . i will just open it ,,, that a simple way to prove what it is ...sounds like a fair idea to me . LOL

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

i am just the one that found it , you are so smart yu tell me what it is .. this IMHO is what it is i have relate scoll with seven seal with the same masonic mark as the one found by Ray dillman ,, . you tell me how it got in the 7th cave ...? your so damn smart lets hear your answer....? i am just doing research of the sites and evidence i found .. what this scoll has to do with the chruch i dont know what its about . but they wanted it at all cost ...

if you dont know what revelations is i feel sorry for ya ...LOL .. i was just pionting out the common facters between these sites and revelations and the fact these could be what the cruch was looking for ...

your welcome to your own opioions . if this is not the 7th seal in the book of revelations you can lol at me if your wrong you and a vast amont of the human race could vanish from the face of the earth ...i wont judge anyone . i will just open it ,,, that a simple way to prove what it is ...sounds like a fair idea to me . LOL

When I said I'm familiar with the book of Revelations, I meant familiar as in my father was a minister and I attended Lutheran schools up until college. You can find about as many interpretations of the Book of Revelations as you can LDM legends - in fact, maybe more!

Whatever you have, I say open it and see what it is. I'm not a believer in the literal interpretation of breaking a physical wax seal and opening a physical book and ending the world. On the other hand, if I'm wrong and you're right, I've been fully prepared to meet my Maker for many years now.