has montezumas tomb been found ...?

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

BB, first let me have my choice of 300 of the most comely, intelligent maidens for myself, that would be a tragic waste, and as the human race has to start over again. I, and my gals, are wiling to do our part .

On second thought, can I invite Oro, Djuici, Cub, Cactus and my other friends in here etc etc to join me with their gals? We can start mankind over again with ME as the judiciary / Religious head.

I am fascinated by your reasoning.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Oroblanco]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Greetings,

Real de Tayopa wrote:

On second thought, can I invite Oro, Djuici, Cub, Cactus and my other friends in here etc etc to join me with their gals? We can start mankind over again with ME as the judiciary / Religious head.

Well I second your nomination for Judiciary/Religious leader, and humbly ask only to be the Treasurer for the new world.

Blindbowman mi amigo, is it not possible that some of what you are interpreting could be symbolic in nature, rather than literal? I have a reason for asking, as a fair case can be put forth that everything found "predicted" within the book of Revelations has already happened over 1500 years ago! Right down to the "four horsemen" since we know of the horrific plagues that swept over most of Europe etc. I mention this not to irritate you but to suggest a re-examination of your conclusions.

"His disciples said to Him, "When will the repose of the dead come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it." (Gospel of Thomas, 51)


Recall Ecclesiastes 3:15

Thank you Cactusjumper for the answer of what the disposition of the body of Montezuma was, I did not recall it. It is logical that since Montezuma was being very much disrespected to the point of being stoned to death by his own people, that his tomb might be nothing remarkable - in fact consider the fate of many of the captured enemy warriors, who ended up on the menu!

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Roy,

It was my pleasure, as it provided an excuse to revisit "The Broken Spears", as well as "The Conquest Of New Spain" by, Bernal Diaz.

There were a few Aztec accounts of the death of Montezuma. Here is story of Alva Ixtlilxochitl:

"On the third day, Motecuhzoma climbed onto the rooftop and tried to admonish his people, but they cursed him and shouted that he was a coward and a traitor to his country. They even threatened him with their weapons. It is said that and Indian killed him with a stone from his sling, but the palace servants declared that the Spaniards put him to death by stabbing him in the abdomen with their swords."

From "The Broken Spears".

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

A wise, old man once said:

Very tasteless - you could have expressed your point without the thoughtless joke. You obviously don't have anyone with special needs in your family - and especially a child!!

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

if you think for one secound i am retared you are a total fool . i agree montezuma's tomb may be just that where he rest , but if true then this is Aztlan , the real Aztlan .. and that makes it more then posable that these caves are in fact the seven caves of chicomoztoc ... the fact i could even relate the black death as posably comeing from this site is totally questionable but ,the recorded evidence says its more then proable.. this is scary to even beleive that the shaman of Aztlan could have found a way to incubate this kind of evil .....

i keep thinking abot the thousand and thousands of rotting scaifices being some kind of a resorce for the shaman .. it could have been cannibalism ,could used for makeing magic and spells and curses .....we dont know enough about this culture to under stand who or what they are .. and not always is the writen record ote man the hidden truth of this tribes ....


i agree the main histroy must fit the sites and it dose . you can not show me a grave of montezuma in mexico . yet i can show you where some of the tribes people gave a random location in AZ .. the supersitition are not that far from mexico and the valliy runs south and north between the supersititions and the center of mexico . with the under standing the tribes would have moved south to get away from the sickness they would not have gone very far . yet 300 miles is a long distence for women and childern of 7 tribes ...

there is most likely facts and evidence we do not know as of yet ..


i am not saying this is the oly answer IMHO it is the only so far that matches the evidence being found ...


i think the seven caves of chicomoztoc was what they were trying to hide .. kings come and go ..real shaman are very rare ...

even the fact that we found this site #4 and it matches the discribtion ofchicomoztoc . is beyond the normal odds of random relation between it and the other site #1 being in a area that could be AZtlan , we know for a fact Aztklan was some where north of mexico city and even could have been in sonora or AZ, AZ was part of the area known as sonora when new spain was founded ...yet the area was never clearly defind before it changed hands ...


i out right agree there is many lose ends and questions yet to be answerd .. but i do beleive we are looking at the eal Aztlan . and if this becomes the fact ,then this site #4 dose in fact fit the chicomoztoc describtion and relatationship to site #1 as well as the know histroy of Aztlan ...

what you beleive i up to you , i see enough evidence i can not rule out that this is not Aztlan at this piont ....in fact the amont of evidence is pileing up and its easy to set there and say it is not aztlan .. but these sites are fake and are real locations ....i beleive some people hat know more about these sites well prove it for me ...

thousands have got in search of these legends .yet who would beleive they could have all come from the same very small area hide within sight of each other in a mass of confussion ...

the logical answer is this is Aztlan ...as far as this sealed 7th caves ... good question what dose it hold , and why did they protect this site ...i know all about the walls of gold and yes its true i have seen the gold with my own eyes . but i beleive this is about the gold ...the shaman would have had no real need of gold ....other then the fine pwoerd gold that was ate as magic , or the small amont they were ,it would have had no real value to them ...


golden bowls and plates . i dont by that ...


there hs to be a more logical reason for them to have selected this site and kept it safe from the out side world..

any way you look at it if some of the legend is true then montezuma 2 took 3000 men to these sites and hide the treasure and then send the man in diffrent groups in diffrent dirrections ,knowing they would most likely be caught and killed , they did this to protect the treasure and montezuma's tomb . i dont know where the treasure is , it could be at any one of these sites it is most likely in this area of AZtlan it self by the acounts known .. yet untill these sites are opened and proven we just dont have any real evidence where the reasure is , but that said . if the site #4 is chicomoztoc we have some ideas of what could be at this site and why ...

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

A wise, old man once said:

Very tasteless - you could have expressed your point without the thoughtless joke. You obviously don't have anyone with special needs in your family - and especially a child!!

well stated and very true...

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

in your left hand you have the possibilities, and theories ....in your right hand you hold the facts and evidence ,when you mix the what you have altogather half will be meaningless and the other half will become parts of histroy over time , it could becme legend ,it could become a reality or histroical fact ...

but if we over see the possibilities and throw away some of those possibilies with out have insight as to what their true nature is and with out knowing what value these things or event have to the over all histroy of an area or location we our selfs become our worst enmeies .. we unknowningly lemit our research areas and the amont of data that can be collected ...

all facts started with the possibilities and the thoeries ...no matter how crazy these possibilities and theories may look to us at frist ,,

the light bulb of ideas could not be the simbolic it is today with out the possibilities oand theories of it inventor ...


he was a crazy old fool and i wish had the chance to have known him , but i was not born in his life time , so all i can do now is under stand who and what he was and try to relate to the creativity that made him so create ...

it is true i had the chance to teach creative art at 12 years old , that was not as scary as the idea of giveing up my studies of people like edison and albert ,newton and others .. to me learning was my passion ...

it still is ...

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

i beleive....

i beleive you all may have forgotten the most importain fact of all .. i enjoying my life ,its the only one i have here now ...i live my life with passion and love and a freedom few will every know or under stand i am alive in the full meaning of the word ... wrong or right dose not matter . when my brother ron set at his table and started to cry because i gave him the chance to go on expedition 2 with me . he knows he is dieing . but i gave hi part of my dream . i shared it with a lot of others you here on the web never see ...real or not i have already won ...

i know and under tand the value of life .i know the true meaning of love and family

i know and under stand the value of my dreams and what value dreams have to other people ...


there is real world and then there is a world and a reality that lives when in the hearts of mankind ...


if i am wrong about everything else .. i am not wrong about this ......enjoy your life as if each secound was your frist ....


i wish you could under stand me and what i feel and sence ...

stay safe stay free

 

[Old Dog]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

You make some good sense there BB.

I hope you continue doing exactly as you stated.
I posted in Tayopa.
It may explain my point of view.

Thom

 

[BILL96]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

I read somewhere that there never was a large aztec treasure. The whole story was just more propaganda spread by the spanish in order maintain the support ofthe king. Yes there was certainly small amounts of gold but not the giant ft knox that the spanish reported. what do you think??
Bill

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

BB: Of course I understand you,. why not? Your view is simply basic and true. You are not that complex my friend.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. I "do" have serious doubts on Djuicie, Cub, Cactus , and obviously, of course, Oro despite Beth's temporizing influence upon him.

 

[Old Dog]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Personally,
I think as you do Bill,
The Spanish were very Gold oriented.
They hauled off what was presented as the ransome for the King- Montezuma.
the rest was quickly hidden by the Aztec so it would have to have been a local thing.
Not a long drawn out public type caravan that would draw attention.
Even a funeral procession would have been suspect, and searched.

Just my humble opinion
Thom

 

[Cleopatra]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Gentlemen,
I wonder, while you have clearly done your homework as far as names, dates and locations are concerned. Have you studied rituals as well? I have been logging in here for a couple of days and I have read the posts on this thread as well as a couple others. I have seen some threats, warnings and outright bragging. My question is this..........

Is this being handled with the repsect it deserves? I hope that no one sitting around their den chain smoking Camels and slugging down Jack Daniels and breaking "ancient objects" or blundering into sacred areas in their Spongebob Squarepants boxer shorts, I'm with stupid t-shirt and a backpack filled with Cheetos, Budweiser and a Digital Camera.

It is clear that many of you do not respect eachother, but I hope you are showing respect for the people whose land you are on now, and for those who have gone before us.

8) Cleopatra

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

HOLA OD: I also doubt your sanity hehehehh

Seriously my friend, I tend to agree with you , so gather your 300 maidens and join us.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Gentlemen,
I wonder, while you have clearly done your homework as far as names, dates and locations are concerned. Have you studied rituals as well? I have been logging in here for a couple of days and I have read the posts on this thread as well as a couple others. I have seen some threats, warnings and outright bragging. My question is this..........

Is this being handled with the repsect it deserves? I hope that no one sitting around their den chain smoking Camels and slugging down Jack Daniels and breaking "ancient objects" or blundering into sacred areas in their Spongebob Squarepants boxer shorts, I'm with stupid t-shirt and a backpack filled with Cheetos, Budweiser and a Digital Camera.

It is clear that many of you do not respect eachother, but I hope you are showing respect for the people whose land you are on now, and for those who have gone before us.

8) Cleopatra

lol its more like brother kicking the shit out each other for fun .. when it comes down to a real degussion of evidence we can get it under control and these guys know there stuff well , i beleive each of them have some very good skills ... even if we dont agree 100% of time

have you ever got a new car and started to see more and more cars just like the one you got .. this is memroy by relationgship, i must often not only seek wild theories but beleive them for some time to relate to these types of evidence , it dose mean i beleive they are realiti . it just means i under stand i can relate to the legends and possably recover evidence most would walk past ....often i have set and looked at something for some time and never saw a detail yet the next time i set down there it is , right in front of me ... its the same thing with these guys . some times you got to trip over them to under stand their opioions ... some times they will throw you there opioion tied to a rock ....lol


to your question . its my under standing . i am not Apache . i am 1/3 mohawk and i sense more then anyone i have ever known . it would not be the land i would b herting . it would be me ... everything we do reflects who we are and who we will become .. ..

the last time i was there i called the hawk ... it is a hawk cry that i learn from a chiff of the mohawk nation , he was my dads best friend .. when i do that the wind stops moveing to let the hawk pass .. it make the hair on the back of my neck stand up ...lol the sound is so real people look up to see where it comeing from ...

i learn that when i was 7 ... now i can do over 6o brids and many other animals sounds as well as other sounds ...

it started as a kids game but i soon won all the time and the chiff gave me a black bead and told my father i would be a great shaman som day ... he was right i have saved two lives with just my touch ....

there is no one that i would walk past that if they needed help i would do all i could ....i will wait and make sure of site #4 before it is made public , i dont want some mineing copy to destroy the area ......

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

HOLA Cleopatra LUV: you posted --->

Have you studied rituals as well?
~~~~~~~~

Does living with the Yaqui Indians for 5 years in Sonora and with the Lacadones in Quintana Roo among others qualify? I might add a bit of intercourse with the cannibals in the Solomons as well as old China.\
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I hope that no one sitting around their den chain smoking Camels and slugging down Jack Daniels and breaking "ancient objects" or blundering into sacred areas in their Spongebob Squarepants boxer shorts"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nah, not me. "Don need no stinking ciggies nor Jack Daniels, pure creek water is good enough for me"

Shorts?? not here, only in the jungles to help keep the creepy crawlies off..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I'm with stupid t-shirt and a backpack filled with Cheetos, Budweiser and a Digital Camera"
~~~~~~~~~~

A T shirt well filled out can be exhilarating, but get rid of the cheetos and budwieser if you want to survive in the outback long enough to feed me peeled grapes while gently swinging me in my hammock.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is clear that many of you do not respect eachother, but I hope you are showing respect for the people whose land you are on now, and for those who have gone before us"
~~~~~~~~~~

You are wrong here , we reserve the right to criticize each other. You must admit that we are far more gentile than a political or religious group/ site.

As for showing respect, we do far more than you have shown in your post. You cannot explore in a region if you do not show respect and a liking for the local people, their customs, beliefs etc., which includes eating their food ,which at times isn't too elegant. sheesh, urp.

I have earned my wings ------>

so don't be so quick to judge, most of these gentlemen would be welcome on any of my expeditions, they have paid their dues also in one way or another.

Now how about a bit of data about yourself, you left your profile conspicuously empty.

Welcome aboard Gal.


.

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

"the right to criticize each other"

you had me rolling on the floor with that one ...i went around the world 3 times before i was 21 and i was married twice by that age ... i retired at 27 ...

i have been to places with no floors and less manners then cave men .....lol
a case of rum was $4 bucks and that was deleaverd ...

what he said .. welcome gal ...

if we couldnt throw rocks at each other we most likely build a fire and cook something ...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Greetings everyone,

Cleopatra, welcome. I think that you might be taking some of our good-natured ribbing of each other as some kind of serious insulting activity, which is hardly the case. There might well be some serious insult among them, but most of us just don't take this place that seriously. A "zinger" now and again can lighten up the mood!

Your verbal imagery of the prototypical 'treasure-hunter' as some kind of white-trash goon, busily smashing priceless ancient relics is about as far from reality here as you can get. Just an aside too, but do you really care what any one of us here is wearing while posting on a forum? What if these folks are not wearing anything but a smile!

Cleopatra wrote:

I hope you are showing respect for the people whose land you are on now, and for those who have gone before us.

Well speaking for myself, I am on my own property, not someone else's, and the sites we have been discussing are on public lands, not private lands. So yes in fact we are respecting the landowners, which are all of us American citizens. Ever heard of "amateur archaeologists"? As much as few here would admit to it in public, that is what they are. Of course speaking for myself, I don't mind if someone calls me a grave-robbing-gold-digging-greedy-looter, for to me such insults only shows they are jealous of my success!

I think you will learn that most of our discussion is revolving around THEORY rather than artifacts/relics recovered, which is not quite the same thing as looting a tomb. (Not that I would know precisely what looting a tomb is all about... ) Love your choice of the most illustrious name of Cleopatra, BTW.

Blindbowman mi amigo you mentioned that Mexico is near the Superstitions of Arizona - however that is misleading as to the actual distances involved. The capital city of the Aztecs, Tenochtitlan (founded 1325 AD by the way, an important timeline fact for that Templar theory) is quite a distance from the Superstition mountains of Arizona, and this is the place where Cortez had Montezuma under his control, not some place in northern Mexico. I can't seem to get a map photo to display this distance but I get 1253 miles in a STRAIGHT LINE as the crow flies, so we are talking a considerable distance from Tenochtitlan to the Superstitions. That fact does not make it impossible for Montezuma to have been entombed in the Superstitions, just it is going to take SOLID EVIDENCE to prove that theory. Considering your background in navigation mi amigo Blindbowman, I am a bit surprised that the distances involved between these places are so easily passed over by you?

Blindbowman wrote:

you can not show me a grave of montezuma in mexico . yet i can show you where some of the tribes people gave a random location in AZ ..

I also must disagree with your description of the legend of Montezuma's tomb being as some "random" site in southern Arizona when the legends I have found have a VERY specific mountain range and a VERY specific mountain - Montezuma's Head. This site is NOT within the Superstition Mountains, unfortunately for that theory. With your background in navigation, this appears to be either an oversight on your part or a deliberate 'fudging' of the information we have, and if that were the case we can only guess as to your motives - perhaps to better "shoe-fit" the theory to the facts, or perhaps to MISLEAD your fellow treasure hunters? I will assume that you would not choose to deliberately mislead your friends, and that it was a simple oversight.

At times there seems to be a tendency to want to dislocate famous old legends from their original and less-famous sites INTO the Superstition Mountains of Arizona. Several treasure authors have committed this rather dastardly little relocation over the years, as if the TRUE legends of the Superstitions were not nearly enough to suit anyone! I hope this practice has stopped once and for all, but who knows?

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

POSTSCRIPT: Here is a topo showing the location of Montezuma Head, the site associated with the legend of Montezuma being entombed in Arizona:
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=32.11479&lon=-112.70598&datum=nad83&u=4&layer=DRG&size=l&s=500

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Roy,

Assuming your 1253 miles is correct, and I do, and assuming a man can walk 3 miles per hour......fairly unencumbered, it would take a little over 34 days, walking 12 hours per day to make the trip.

Considering the terrain they would traverse, the weather and the hostile tribes surrounding the Aztecs, I believe we can safely assume that Montezuma is buried fairly close to Tenochtitlan.

It does, however, make for an exciting story getting him, along with a great deal of treasure, to the Superstitions. Someone should write a book.

Take care,

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

Greetings everyone,

Cleopatra, welcome. I think that you might be taking some of our good-natured ribbing of each other as some kind of serious insulting activity, which is hardly the case. There might well be some serious insult among them, but most of us just don't take this place that seriously. A "zinger" now and again can lighten up the mood!

Your verbal imagery of the prototypical 'treasure-hunter' as some kind of white-trash goon, busily smashing priceless ancient relics is about as far from reality here as you can get. Just an aside too, but do you really care what any one of us here is wearing while posting on a forum? What if these folks are not wearing anything but a smile!

Cleopatra wrote:

I hope you are showing respect for the people whose land you are on now, and for those who have gone before us.

Well speaking for myself, I am on my own property, not someone else's, and the sites we have been discussing are on public lands, not private lands. So yes in fact we are respecting the landowners, which are all of us American citizens. Ever heard of "amateur archaeologists"? As much as few here would admit to it in public, that is what they are. Of course speaking for myself, I don't mind if someone calls me a grave-robbing-gold-digging-greedy-looter, for to me such insults only shows they are jealous of my success!

I think you will learn that most of our discussion is revolving around THEORY rather than artifacts/relics recovered, which is not quite the same thing as looting a tomb. (Not that I would know precisely what looting a tomb is all about... ) Love your choice of the most illustrious name of Cleopatra, BTW.

Blindbowman mi amigo you mentioned that Mexico is near the Superstitions of Arizona - however that is misleading as to the actual distances involved. The capital city of the Aztecs, Tenochtitlan (founded 1325 AD by the way, an important timeline fact for that Templar theory) is quite a distance from the Superstition mountains of Arizona, and this is the place where Cortez had Montezuma under his control, not some place in northern Mexico. I can't seem to get a map photo to display this distance but I get 1253 miles in a STRAIGHT LINE as the crow flies, so we are talking a considerable distance from Tenochtitlan to the Superstitions. That fact does not make it impossible for Montezuma to have been entombed in the Superstitions, just it is going to take SOLID EVIDENCE to prove that theory. Considering your background in navigation mi amigo Blindbowman, I am a bit surprised that the distances involved between these places are so easily passed over by you?

Blindbowman wrote:

you can not show me a grave of montezuma in mexico . yet i can show you where some of the tribes people gave a random location in AZ ..

I also must disagree with your description of the legend of Montezuma's tomb being as some "random" site in southern Arizona when the legends I have found have a VERY specific mountain range and a VERY specific mountain - Montezuma's Head. This site is NOT within the Superstition Mountains, unfortunately for that theory. With your background in navigation, this appears to be either an oversight on your part or a deliberate 'fudging' of the information we have, and if that were the case we can only guess as to your motives - perhaps to better "shoe-fit" the theory to the facts, or perhaps to MISLEAD your fellow treasure hunters? I will assume that you would not choose to deliberately mislead your friends, and that it was a simple oversight.

At times there seems to be a tendency to want to dislocate famous old legends from their original and less-famous sites INTO the Superstition Mountains of Arizona. Several treasure authors have committed this rather dastardly little relocation over the years, as if the TRUE legends of the Superstitions were not nearly enough to suit anyone! I hope this practice has stopped once and for all, but who knows?

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

POSTSCRIPT: Here is a topo showing the location of Montezuma Head, the site associated with the legend of Montezuma being entombed in Arizona:
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=32.11479&lon=-112.70598&datum=nad83&u=4&layer=DRG&size=l&s=500

all good pionts of research . but have you considered the fact IMHO there was 3 montezuma's . and you are very right but the treasure of montezuma was said to be sent by montezuma ...i asume he did not take it him self ..the acount stated montezuma's son and 3000 of his men took the treasure northward and when montezuma was in tombed is not known .. he could have been put in the tomb days or weeks or even longer after his death and this would make sence if a mummification had been done wich this is a king , and it would be very unlikely that he was not mummified. in fact i would be totally shocked if he was not ...and if the stone tablets main reason for being made was to piont out montezuma's treasure or tomb with the under standing the chruch in santa ana had some part in this ,,,if not to just store the stone tablets ,it would make little to no logic for the stone tablets to havebeen made in the frist place yet we know for a fact the stone tablets are not fake and were made by a very skilled map maker ...in a spainish scale of messurement of vara ...300 mile distence i spoke of was between santa ana and the supersititionmts ..and you are correct it is a little of 1200 miles from mexico city . yet how far Aztlan was from mexico city is a matter of how far would you go to get away from the black death if it broke out in your home land ...IMHO it has little to do with the distence it self as much as it was to take the king back to his home land , and what better way to hide him then to take him to a place few knew about . its much the same as the legend of AZtlan being in the supersitition mt , this maybe the true reason Aztlan had not been found in the frist place ...

what leed freddy crystall to beleive the chruch stone tablets led to montezuma's treasure ....the chruch in santa ana did , thats where these stone tablets came from ...the same location the treasure trove list of tayopa came from ... and one acount of the massacre fits the discription of the massacre in the superstition mts ...

i totally under stand what you are saying Oro and i agree with the fact this is some distence from mexico city ...yet this distence maybe the only think that makes people beleive it was near mexico city and few would beleive it is were it has been found at this site #1

you can miss led people to beleive its near mexico city . its hard to move the mts them self ...

if there is confussion its not over where the sites are .. its who told who and why they were misled to beleive something that was not true ....


its not proveing montezuma tomb is in the superstitions , its proveing this is Aztlan and chicomoztoc . the indain legends say montezuma was taken back to Aztlan .. see my piont .. his body could have been sent back and the tomb seal at any piont after his death ...and you got to ask your self i the acount said motezuma's son and 3000 of his men . dose this mean montezuma 's 2 son ...i beleive it dose , for two reasons , one the treasure could have vanished and been hiden and they would have had a week head start before cortez enterd the city the secound time .. and if they had a head start and they knew this land , they could have taken the treasure to the supersitition mt and then misled cortez away from the treasure tomb . and then went back and got montezuma's remains ... this would tell me there were some people still loyal to montezuma....

in fact when you atke a good look at the details you have pionted out they make my over all case stronger ...lol

if i am right the 3000 men marched almost the whole way none stop to the superstition mts stright northward threw the vally.....they knew this route north because their home land was north ... it would make almost no common logic for Aztlan to be say 500 miles north of mexico city . this would be very unlikely ... if sickness was why they moved south it would be far more logical that it would a 1000 miles or more northward . and the supersitition mt are in fact as you have just pionted out ...i think i owe you a steak ...lol

in fact i would be very shocked if this ways not Aztlan , it would make good common sence if it was ...the idea 7 tribes would move south and go a few hunderd miles and then set up a new home land is foolish , i beleive it would have had to be at lest 25-30 days away and i find my self agreeing with CJ the secound time this week . i must be going crazy ,,,lol

you would have to take into acount these men were most likely the royal guard and would have been in good condition to make this trip with weight ...most likely not takeing common gold ore . it would have been the kings treasure .only .. the most valueable items ....i think this is part of the reason cortez was so pist it was gone ...

no ,IMHO Aztlan has been found and we should take a better look at what has been found at these sites ,, because they do in fact logically fit the legends better then any other site before them ...

the real question is are we going to talk about it the rest of our lifes or are we going to prove it ....if you look at the facts , one must prove the other , aztlan , chicomoztoc and motezuma's tomb has to all be in the same area .. i have pionted out a logical area that fits all 3 site , i dont think anyone else has ever done that !

many have thoeries to where Aztlan was . but it must fit all 3 of these legends to be the real Aztlan , i think cj made a good controlled guess ...and i do agree , 30-35 days away would be about right

they hide the treasure and then sent 3 groups of men west north and east to mis led cortez on a wild goose chase ,and then went back for montezuma after cortez was gone ...it worked like it was planed to happend this way ...

we dont know how the santa ana chruch found out about these sites , and tayopa ... there are some details still missing ... was the guadalupe de santa ana chruch the sister chruch of the one in the supersitition mt... if i am right and the massacre acount of tayopa is the same massacre in the supersitition mt then there was a chruch in the superstition mts . and the remains of what could be a chruch i found , could in fact be the same chruch , in the same area as all 3 sites ...this would make 6 or 7 legends that all fit this area ....and these 3 sites ....