Having Fun Again

[ECS]

GREAT info... THANKS!

Additional information on William Ross's Sheetz flintlock rifle and his action under Captain Thomas Beale during the Battle of New Orleans:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/5/30/the-sheetz-rifle
It is interesting to note Ross was buried in the St Girod Cemetery.

 

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[franklin]

Additional information on William Ross's Sheetz flintlock rifle and his action under Captain Thomas Beale during the Battle of New Orleans:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/5/30/the-sheetz-rifle
It is interesting to note Ross was buried in the St Girod Cemetery.

Thanks ECS. I like reading stories like this. Reminds of the Battle of King's Mountain and the long rifles from Tennessee and Kentucky.

 

[ECS]

Did you notice in that article that BEALE's RIFLES were composed mostly of men who had relocated to New Orleans from Virginia?
The Battle of New Orleans would have been a "perilous adventure" and also taking part in that battle was James Beverly Risqué and Pascal Buford.

 

[franklin]

Did you notice in that article that BEALE's RIFLES were composed mostly of men who had relocated to New Orleans from Virginia?
The Battle of New Orleans would have been a "perilous adventure" and also taking part in that battle was James Beverly Risqué and Pascal Buford.

The Battle of New Orleans would have been a "perilous adventure" but that happened before 1817-1822? It is odd though that most of the men were from Virginia and they were all businessmen in New Orleans. Usually businessmen worked together with pirates. Maybe Thomas Beale was a crack shot because getting a chance to shoot so many when they were being robbed on the high seas.

If the story was actually true? And I doubt it? But anyone of the businessmen or any of the pirates even Jean Lafitte could have came to Bedford County and/or Lynchburg and acted like Thomas Beale. That all depends on whether Robert Morriss actually knew Thomas Beale as a merchantman or not? Also whether James Beverly Risque saw him and inquired as to where his name came from because he did know him, after all he was almost killed by Thomas Beale in a gun duel. So many unanswered questions and no where to find the facts that will confirm an answer.

We know Thomas Beale most likely talked to General Jackson. If James Beverly Risque was his adjutant and bodyguard, it seems the two men should have met. Also Paschal Buford was in this battle. With only 2,000 or so men counting the Indians, you would think these men would have met?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Also remember that the PREZ was James Madison, Jr., who had his own SECRET "Coding/Cipher" system during the War of 1812... like TJ.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Further R & I indicate that JM used Keyword Polyalphabetic Codes Systems (with alphabet & numbers) & TJ used Numeric Tables Codes.

 

[ECS]

The Battle of New Orleans would have been a "perilous adventure" but that happened before 1817-1822? It is odd though that most of the men were from Virginia and they were all businessmen in New Orleans...

Raising a company of Virginians for a perilous adventure as Captain to fight the British does parallel the Thomas J Beale narrative if one substitutes hunt and buffalo for fight and British.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Raising a company of Virginians for a perilous adventure as Captain to fight the British does parallel the Thomas J Beale narrative if one substitutes hunt and buffalo for fight and British.

TRUE! Work that "angle"...

 

[ECS]

It is interesting that parallel events can be found that obviously influenced the Beale narrative story from Beale forming the militia unit of Virginians to the massacre of Ward's great uncle by Indians while inspecting gold and silver mines, but NO direct evidence has ever been produced that can conclusively prove that the Beale perilous adventure treasure story occurred outside of the dime novel job print pamphlet published by Ward.

 

[bigscoop]

As you guys know, all of this stuff has been hashed over time and time again, and while there still exist a very slim chance that the tale might have been in connection with some event concerning the aftermath of the War of 1812, the Adams Onis Treaty, etc., all that really matters is what can be directly connected to the tale, to which there still exist absolutely nothing.

 

[ECS]

Bigscoop, as you know, I hold the belief that Ward incorporated various events and family lore from the extended Risqué family bloodline (Hutter, Kennerly, Hancock), and his wife, Harriet's (Buford, Otey, Mitchell/Morris), and the Beale Papers was created from compiling these "connexions" and stories.
Ward and his Hutter cousins did have Confederate cipher and code experience, as well as spending time in St Louis (the Kennerlys had a mercantile business in St Louis and Julia Hancock, subject of the Risqué/Beale duel, married William Clark of Lewis & Clark.
The Shakespeare references came from Ward's father and cousin John William Sherman (printer of the Beale Papers who wrote a review of the dime novel as sub-editor of the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN), both members of the LYNCHBURG THESPIAN GROUP, and Poe's THE GOLD BUG, which would have been available at WARD & DIGGS BOOKSELLERS as well as other works.
...and the previous mention of Beale organizing a company as Captain for the perilous adventure of fighting the British in New Orleans, and Ward's great uncle being killed two years before the publication of the Beale Papers by Indians while inspecting gold and silver mines in Arizona.
Far two many connections to be mere coincidence.

"It don't take a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"- Bob Dylan

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"Hard rain's gonna fall"... yet! Follow that "train of thought", as it MAY WELL be part of the "cover-story". It DOES sound like "good "connextions"... heh!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

12 War of 1812 Vets are buried, here in L'burg... including JAMES BEVERLY RISQUE! There is even a web-site showing the "Honor" with a plaque of names on it... with JAMES BEVERLY RISQUE; already "posted" it. Think L'burg "History Page" even has a LISTING of men serving from L'burg,VA. Did Thomas Beale, Sr. come to L'burg to recruit Men of "INDEPENDENT MEANS" for the Battle of NO...? Dunno... WORTHY of R & I, tho.

 

[releventchair]

Bigscoop, as you know, I hold the belief that Ward incorporated various events and family lore from the extended Risqué family bloodline (Hutter, Kennerly, Hancock), and his wife, Harriet's (Buford, Otey, Mitchell/Morris), and the Beale Papers was created from compiling these "connexions" and stories.
Ward and his Hutter cousins did have Confederate cipher and code experience, as well as spending time in St Louis (the Kennerlys had a mercantile business in St Louis and Julia Hancock, subject of the Risqué/Beale duel, married William Clark of Lewis & Clark.
The Shakespeare references came from Ward's father and cousin John William Sherman (printer of the Beale Papers who wrote a review of the dime novel as sub-editor of the LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN), both members of the LYNCHBURG THESPIAN GROUP, and Poe's THE GOLD BUG, which would have been available at WARD & DIGGS BOOKSELLERS as well as other works.
...and the previous mention of Beale organizing a company as Captain for the perilous adventure of fighting the British in New Orleans, and Ward's great uncle being killed two years before the publication of the Beale Papers by Indians while inspecting gold and silver mines in Arizona.
Far two many connections to be mere coincidence.

"It don't take a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"- Bob Dylan

Too , a real place or familiar name lends an air of truth to fiction writings. Pretty standard.
Even alluding to a person or place in a manner enough to convince a reader , can convince a reader the reader " knows" something.

 

[ECS]

Too , a real place or familiar name lends an air of truth to fiction writings. Pretty standard.
Even alluding to a person or place in a manner enough to convince a reader , can convince a reader the reader " knows" something.

That explains the reason why Clay, Witcher, Coles, Jackson, and Chief Justice Marshall as well as Max Guggenheiner, Esq are mentioned in the narrative text, and also why the niece at whose house the "unknown author" received the Beale story from Morriss is not.

 

[franklin]

That explains the reason why Clay, Witcher, Coles, Jackson, and Chief Justice Marshall as well as Max Guggenheiner, Esq are mentioned in the narrative text, and also why the niece at whose house the "unknown author" received the Beale story from Morriss is not.

Question: Since Max Guggenheiner, Esq. was still living in Lynchburg, Va and the only name mentioned that did live in Lynchburg, Va at the time of the publication and it being in the newspapers daily---------would not you think that Max was in on the profits from the story? He would have had to know about it, I mean the story ran daily in the newspapers for over eighty days.

What if anything did he write down in his diary or journal about the "BEALE PAPERS" I would like to know.

Is there any diaries of anyone in the Lynchburg City area that kept one during 1885?

 

[releventchair]

That explains the reason why Clay, Witcher, Coles, Jackson, and Chief Justice Marshall as well as Max Guggenheiner, Esq are mentioned in the narrative text, and also why the niece at whose house the "unknown author" received the Beale story from Morriss is not.

Not a bad thing, as long as the text is classified as fiction or nonfiction so not to confuse the reader. Or the librarian.
Genre does not matter as much ....but is enhanced by introducing enough real elements; regardless of classification.

 

[franklin]

Question: Since Max Guggenheiner, Esq. was still living in Lynchburg, Va and the only name mentioned that did live in Lynchburg, Va at the time of the publication and it being in the newspapers daily---------would not you think that Max was in on the profits from the story? He would have had to know about it, I mean the story ran daily in the newspapers for over eighty days.

What if anything did he write down in his diary or journal about the "BEALE PAPERS" I would like to know.

Is there any diaries of anyone in the Lynchburg City area that kept one during 1885?

I just talked on the telephone with a grand nephew of Max Guggenheimer. He knows all about his great uncle. He says he was a Captain in the Confederate States of America's Army. He went on to mention all of his businesses and enterprises. I asked him about his name being in a book written in 1885 by James Beverly Ward and the ad for the book ran over eighty days in the Lynchburg Newspapers. I asked him did he know anything about this? His reply was no. I asked him did Max his great uncle keep a diary or journal and he said he knew all about his great uncle and no he did not keep a diary or journal.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The Battle of New Orleans would have been a "perilous adventure" but that happened before 1817-1822? It is odd though that most of the men were from Virginia and they were all businessmen in New Orleans. Usually businessmen worked together with pirates. Maybe Thomas Beale was a crack shot because getting a chance to shoot so many when they were being robbed on the high seas.

If the story was actually true? And I doubt it? But anyone of the businessmen or any of the pirates even Jean Lafitte could have came to Bedford County and/or Lynchburg and acted like Thomas Beale. That all depends on whether Robert Morriss actually knew Thomas Beale as a merchantman or not? Also whether James Beverly Risque saw him and inquired as to where his name came from because he did know him, after all he was almost killed by Thomas Beale in a gun duel. So many unanswered questions and no where to find the facts that will confirm an answer.

We know Thomas Beale most likely talked to General Jackson. If James Beverly Risque was his adjutant and bodyguard, it seems the two men should have met. Also Paschal Buford was in this battle. With only 2,000 or so men counting the Indians, you would think these men would have met?

Well, watched the History Channel on Telly, this AM. 1st Invasion: War of 1812; had Battle of NO. Gen. Jackson sent out a "call" for men of ALL races, colors (Free or not), Pirates, etc. to defend NO, and they did. Brits lost quite a few, KIA; Americans lost only about 13 (KIA); many WIA or POW... Thomas Beale's Rifles were POW on a Brit ship... YET! Did Thomas Beale Sr. or Pierre Lafitte come to L'burg seeking recruits for the Battle of NO...? Jean ALWAYS stayed at home in NO at THE TEMPLE in the French Quarter with his "loot/bounty" from the "High Sea"; later MAYBE moving the LaFitte "loot/bounty" to St. Loo & then MAYBE Virginia. This TRUE "event" COULD HAVE been utilized for BBP being a COVER-STORY. JBR bought a LOT of land around L'burg... did he tell Gen. AJ...? Did JBR have land, in the Fla. "Pan-handle"...? Is that why JBW's kids/JBR Grand-kids moved there...? Are they buried there...? I think Buford, Beale, Risque, Jackson, the Lafittes DID know each other... they MAY have drank a few Bee Ale, at Thomas Beale, Sr.'s Tavern... down in NO. Dunno.

 

[ECS]

Not a bad thing, as long as the text is classified as fiction or nonfiction so not to confuse the reader. Or the librarian.
Genre does not matter as much ....but is enhanced by introducing enough real elements; regardless of classification.

"Historical" fiction with the names of real people was dime novel norm during the same time period of the Beale Papers publications.