How is your update going ?

[trdking]

Love the head tails tobacco token! That is some straight up unstarched territory your in right there. Pound the sand out of that place

 

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[vferrari]

The most important thing to note with the update is that the FE numbers and the F2 numbers do not correlate directly. That is FE at zero does not equal F2 at zero. The information posted out there is sketchy and ML is no help with their documentation and marketing blather, but what people are finding is that you can think of FE iron bias as a sort of small range fine tuned adjustment whereas F2 is a much broader range than FE and the F2 numbers less than 4 represent settings BELOW FE = 0 and the numbers of F2 greater than 6 are above FE = 9! In other words, FE iron bias settings 0 - 9 reside almost entirely within the F2 iron bias settings of 4 to 6! In addition, to the difference in range of the F2 filter vs. FE, I think F2 has a different filtering algorithm which results in less unintentional masking of non-ferrous at high settings which could explain why ML was comfortable setting the default of F2 at 6 for ALL modes.

Another thing to realize, is that FE=0 and F2 = 0 does not mean the iron bias filter is turned off. In multi IQ there is always some minimal level of iron bias filtering taking place, apparently. I did not realize this until people started trying to explain the difference between the FE and F2 filters resulting from this update. It seems the only time iron bias filtering is removed is when you are operating in single frequency where as ML puts it, iron bias is "not available".

HH HTH

 

[CoinHunterAZ]

Minelab says to use F2 with all metal. What function does it serve when not in all metal? I wonder how many here always hunt with all metal turned on all the time?

 

[Iron Buzz]

I haven’t done the update yet because I can’t find our computer mouse,

Maybe this will help: https://appligent.com/keyboard-accessibility-mouse-alternatives/

 

[HighVDI]

Minelab says to use F2 with all metal. What function does it serve when not in all metal? I wonder how many here always hunt with all metal turned on all the time?

I always run in all metal.

 

[Donut]

Get a mouse trap

 

[Iron Buzz]

The most important thing to note with the update is that the FE numbers and the F2 numbers do not correlate directly. That is FE at zero does not equal F2 at zero. The information posted out there is sketchy and ML is no help with their documentation and marketing blather, but what people are finding is that you can think of FE iron bias as a sort of small range fine tuned adjustment whereas F2 is a much broader range than FE and the F2 numbers less than 4 represent settings BELOW FE = 0 and the numbers of F2 greater than 6 are above FE = 9! In other words, FE iron bias settings 0 - 9 reside almost entirely within the F2 iron bias settings of 4 to 6! In addition, to the difference in range of the F2 filter vs. FE, I think F2 has a different filtering algorithm which results in less unintentional masking of non-ferrous at high settings which could explain why ML was comfortable setting the default of F2 at 6 for ALL modes.

Another thing to realize, is that FE=0 and F2 = 0 does not mean the iron bias filter is turned off. In multi IQ there is always some minimal level of iron bias filtering taking place, apparently. I did not realize this until people started trying to explain the difference between the FE and F2 filters resulting from this update. It seems the only time iron bias filtering is removed is when you are operating in single frequency where as ML puts it, iron bias is "not available".

HH HTH

Wow! Where did you find all that information? Another forum? Insider information? Sounds like you're talking facts and not mere speculation, for the most part.

Prior to the update, I had set FE iron bias to 3, under the belief (right or not) that while I wanted some iron bias, I didn't trust it completely at the default of 6 (I use Park 1 exclusively for my hunting). Given that I'd rather dig a few bottlecaps and square nails if it means not missing some good targets, what would I set F2 at?

 

[sgoss66]

Iron Buzz -- as vferrari noted, but not "explicitly," FE=0 is the same setting as F2=4. So, if you were running FE = 0 before, and you run F2=4 now, you are running the same setting. Since you were running FE=3 before, I'd try F2=5. From there, you might try gradually bumping F2 downward, as you get used to the "falsing."

To elaborate (for those interested)...

The lower you go with your F2 setting, the more "iron falsing" you should hear, BUT, on the other hand, the better your machine will also be able to "unmask" a coin that is lying near an iron target. Reason being, high iron bias settings can "filter out" a good target next to an iron target, by assigning the entire "composite" target (the iron target and good target) an "iron" ID and tone.

I think a good rule of thumb is to run HIGH iron bias, as a newer EQX user. Doing so, you won't dig as much iron (iron targets will ID more "solidly" as iron), and thus if you hear something that "sounds good," there is a better chance it is indeed "something good" -- i.e. a non-ferrous object. BUT -- the caveat is, you also should be aware that a coin that is co-located with a nail will be more likely to be assigned an IRON tone, when running a high iron bias setting (as I mentioned above).

THEN, as you gain some experience with the EQX's audio, you will get better at learning the difference between a high-tone iron "false," and a high-tone emanating from a good target. At that point, you can then begin dialing down your FE (or F2) setting. YES, you will hear more "iron falsing," but since your experience with the machine will allow you to be better able to tell a "false" high tone from a "good" high tone, you can deal with the extra "noise," while in the mean time you are increasing your odds of having any non-ferrous target that is lying near an iron target report as two distinct targets (a low-tone/high-tone mix), instead of the machine just reporting it as one low-tone (iron) target.

What it boils down to is, as you learn to recognize a high tone that is an "iron false," from a high tone that is actually a non-ferrous target, you can begin to use your BRAIN -- i.e. your knowledge of the EQX's tones -- as the "filter," and thus rely less on the EQX's "electronic filter." Exactly where you choose to set that "break point" (i.e. do you want the MACHINE to filter out the iron falses, or do you want to let your BRAIN filter them out), is up to each individual and their experience and comfort level with the EQX's language. Personally, I like to minimize the ELECTRONIC filtering, and let my BRAIN do as much of that "filtering" as possible, but -- without overwhelming myself with noise/false tones. Gradually, as my experience with a new machine increases, and I learn more and more of how to "filter" (ignore) the falsing mentally, and treat it as largely "background white noise," I can then "tolerate" more "falsing" without becoming overwhelmed and mentally fatigued. And again, there's a payoff to dealing with the "noise" -- you allow yourself the opportunity to allow the machine to point out a few more good targets to you (those high-tone/low-tone mixed type of signals) than you otherwise might have (with iron bias set high).

As vferrari has said elsewhere, there is no "free lunch;" there is always a tradeoff. Set bias high, experience a quieter hunt, but potentially miss a few coins that are co-located with iron. Set bias low, and you'll experience a "noisier" hunt, but you might nab a few extra coins, that otherwise would have ID'd as iron, if you had been running a high iron bias setting.

Hopefully, that was clear enough to be understandable!

Steve

 

[smokeythecat]

On really trashy sites (not parks) with permission I use a shovel! Really! Sometimes there are 50 targets in a 2' x 2' area!

 

[dirtlooter]

thanks Steve, a little easier to understand for someone like me now.

 

[cudamark]

Minelab says to use F2 with all metal. What function does it serve when not in all metal? I wonder how many here always hunt with all metal turned on all the time?

With me, it's not 100% all the time, but, most places, yes. The main place I don't detect in all metal is a modern (as in not old enough for silver) urban park or school. I cherry pick there by only going for 22 and up, along with 12 and 13. It's just not worth looking for anything else in my book. The trash to treasure ratio is just not good enough to spend that much energy.

 

[pulltabfelix]

Its really not the machine. It's the conditions and your skills. Ground moisture, lack thereof, soil temperature, swing speed, air humidity, grass or foliage height, distance of the coil off the ground, iron or other mineralization of the ground. SOMETIMES the FREQUENCY of a different machine will make a difference, but I have gone behind myself repeatedly on some sites I have all to myself and have found very nice items. Sometimes it's even a matter of the "tilt" of the coil over the ground.

This is a very repeatable thing.

I agree with you smokey. There are so many variables and I will add a few more. did you noise cancel properly, are you using the proper modes for your hunt site, did you ground balance over a target free piece of ground, were you hot and tired?

I am now trying to determining the proper settings, bin values for relic hunting in a specific area near a civil war battle. Little things like not ground balancing properly between mode changes can give you different TID's for identical targets. Frequency changes and dept of target can do the same thing. It is up to our brain to sort all these things out. Then considering all that evaluating if FE2 is as good, better or worse than FE is a challenge.

 

[vferrari]

First, shout out to Steve (sgoss66) for expanding on my post and giving a very detailed yet understandable explanation on this new iron bias filter and settings.

Basically, F2 is a more powerful/expanded version of FE which gives you more choices when attempting to trade off reduced falsing (higher settings) versus minimizing masking of non-ferrous near the ferrous you are filtering (lower settings). There are no absolutes, no free lunches. You should plan on testing this out on your own to see what works. You may want to set yourself up to be able to interrogate iffy targets with different filter settings to see what happens, you might be surprised to learn that a higher F2 setting might actually enable you to better hear that non-ferrous signal lurking in the falsing muck like the ring that was found as described in this thread: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/equinox/617705-minelab-2-0-success.html. Also, don't automatically assume that the 0 settings are the way to go. It appears that some level of iron bias filtering is always applied in multi, so experiment around. Even no disc/all metal/no filter zealots (like me ) have found that a couple of notches of F2 may actually be called for in some situations. But I am still learning how to use F2 in different situations.

Minelab says to use F2 with all metal. What function does it serve when not in all metal? I wonder how many here always hunt with all metal turned on all the time?

What ML is driving at is that the new F2 filter is designed to accentuate the ferrous grunt and de-emphasize the high tone falses of different ferrous/mixed ferrous targets. In order to hear that confirmatory ferrous grunt, you need to be in all metal. If you choose to run the filter with iron disc on, the result will be less falsing, but when a false does sneak through you either need to be able to recognize it for what it is, or use AM to hear the confirmatory ferrous grunt. Also know that the filter is not perfect, it can get fooled by deep iffy targets so if you are using a stronger setting, it may just push that deep borderline non-ferrous target signal into the ferrous region EVEN IF IT IS NOT IN THE VICINITY OF FERROUS. Soil conditions, moisture, target orientation, composition, and depth all play a role and the filter is just making an educated guess and then manipulating the signal you hear in your headphones and the number it decides to display. The best discriminator is still your shovel and eyes. When in doubt, dig it out always applies.

Wow! Where did you find all that information? Another forum? Insider information? Sounds like you're talking facts and not mere speculation, for the most part.

Prior to the update, I had set FE iron bias to 3, under the belief (right or not) that while I wanted some iron bias, I didn't trust it completely at the default of 6 (I use Park 1 exclusively for my hunting). Given that I'd rather dig a few bottlecaps and square nails if it means not missing some good targets, what would I set F2 at?

Steve and I already covered most of the bases, but if you want to get confirmation and to avoid running afoul of TNET rules regarding referencing other forums and non-sponsor sites, lets just say that google is your friend and the detailed answers are out there if you use some precise search terms. This information apparently comes from a combination of folks who have tester or other inside connections with ML and from speculation based on detailed real world testing of the new filters.

Since, the scales are different between FE and F2 iron bias filtering (i.e., 9 levels of FE filtering essentially fall between 4 and 6 based on the "experts in the know" [not me]) the best I can say is FE3 lies somewhere between F2 4 and 5, approximately.

HTH

 

[IDXMonster]

Get a mouse trap

I should’ve known that was coming from somewhere....

 

[Iron Buzz]

Thanks for clarifying that, Steve. I just read the updated manual about F2 and see that I read it too quickly the first time, and missed a couple of things that have been talked about here, such as having the All-Metal mode on. It also talks about what you just paraphrased regarding the tradeoffs. Quoting the updated manual here:

The Iron Bias FE Setting provides some control over the Target ID response. A lower Iron Bias setting will allow the natural response to dominate which means that the target is more likely to be classified as a non-ferrous target. A higher setting will increase the likelihood that the target is classified as iron.The Iron Bias F2 Setting provides tone and Target ID response adjustment for a wider range of ferrous targets, including some types of crown cap bottle tops that Iron Bias FE is less effective for. Iron Bias F2 is best used in All Metal Mode, with iron tones audible.The Iron Bias FE and F2 settings have a range from 0 to 9. Iron Bias is only available when the operating frequency is Multi

n environments with dense iron trash, a higher Iron Bias is recommended in order to mask them. In areas where you do not want to miss any non-ferrous targets amongst iron trash, a lower setting is recommended. This will cause more ferrous targets to be detected and mis-identified as desirable non-ferrous targets.The Iron Bias FE and Iron Bias F2 settings profiles are independent. When Iron Bias FE is selected, the Iron Bias F2 setting has no effect, and vice versa.

 

[CoinHunterAZ]

Now if Minelab would just come out with an A3 Aluminum Bias... I'd be in MD heaven. My arch nemesis is the flattened aluminum wine screw caps.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Now if Minelab would just come out with an A3 Aluminum Bias... I'd be in MD heaven. My arch nemesis is the flattened aluminum wine screw caps.

You are not alone.

 

[cudamark]

I did my update yesterday and went on a wet/dry sand beach hunt (no water). I ran it in F2 @ 6 and found a lot less bottle caps than I usually find with the stock FE that comes with Park 1. It's not going to completely eliminate bottle caps in this new F2 setting, but, any help is welcome. I didn't make any good jewelry find either, so, more testing is in order. It was about a 5 hr hunt, and I found $5.40 in change, a couple of pieces of junk jewelry, a hot wheels car, some stainless hardware from boats, 3 keys, and a .22 shell casing. Lot's of junk on this section of beach too. Pull tabs totaled 34, nuggets (melted can clumps) 21, numerous bits of aluminum foil and copper fragments, and 3 bottle caps. The only iron I dug was a large nut on a broken bolt (both real rusty) down a good 10 inches. Heading over to England tomorrow, so, packing everything up and won't be beach hunting until I get back. I'll let you know more then.

 

[sandmartin]

I did my update yesterday and went on a wet/dry sand beach hunt (no water). I ran it in F2 @ 6 and found a lot less bottle caps than I usually find with the stock FE that comes with Park 1. It's not going to completely eliminate bottle caps in this new F2 setting, but, any help is welcome. I didn't make any good jewelry find either, so, more testing is in order. It was about a 5 hr hunt, and I found $5.40 in change, a couple of pieces of junk jewelry, a hot wheels car, some stainless hardware from boats, 3 keys, and a .22 shell casing. Lot's of junk on this section of beach too. Pull tabs totaled 34, nuggets (melted can clumps) 21, numerous bits of aluminum foil and copper fragments, and 3 bottle caps. The only iron I dug was a large nut on a broken bolt (both real rusty) down a good 10 inches. Heading over to England tomorrow, so, packing everything up and won't be beach hunting until I get back. I'll let you know more then.

leave some of the gold sovereigns for me bud!

 

[cudamark]

leave some of the gold sovereigns for me bud!

Hey, you can go out and find them any time! I only have a week!