Indian Artifacts......

[j.d. in the usa]

Hi heres a goosd pic of the IA's that were found this week, I cant take credit for finding them to my amazement my 7 year old daughter found them in the stream bed we walk through to get to "bullet hill" she also found a huge assortment of marbles which ill be posting pics of them today also... jd

 

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[tracey]

very nice finds. you have a good hunting partner!

 

[hikermike]

Nice finds!!! My son and I have a pretty good collection of indian artifacts. We have been collecting them for years and years. It's almost as fun as detecting!! Good luck and keep up the good work!!!H.H.

 

[Daniel in Ak]

thats way cool...I love finding arrowheads,and I even dig for indian pottery,which can be so gorgeous also.Heck all those Indian Artifacts are cool.Tell her congrats.

 

[Copper]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing the photos of your native American artifacts.

I just asked this question on another post but will also ask it here. How does one know if an arrowhead is ancient or of modern manufacture?

I was just curious because so many are offered for sale on ebay and many times I've been tempted to buy some.

Thanks,

Copper

 

[j.d. in the usa]

thats a good question how would you tell other than finding them yourself? my brother in law is the one who taught my kids what to look for other than the obvious arrow head i would have thought they were just rocks. but if anyone has answers i would like to know also. jd

 

[Zeke]

Real ones will have a patina on the surface of the rock/flint from being in the ground..... Fake ones wont. You can see this on ones found in a plowed field. If the plow hits it and breaks or chips the artifact, it will be shiny where the chip is and duller on the surface. Some rocks take on the patina better than others. Ones made of quartz dont. One way to see this is take a point you have found that is broke in half.......dont do it to a whole point!!!!......and chip it on the edge. Where you chip it will be a totally different color.

Also......it takes a very seasoned flintknapper to produce a good point. The nicer ones(real) will be symetrical and thin. I've seen alot of fakes that are thick and lopsided. And then again......I've saw some modern points that are thin, symetrical, and well made....just didnt have the patina on them.

You have to be careful nowdays as to what you buy. Some points can go into the 5 figure mark according to their age,type, kind of rock, and how well they are made. A good book to get is Overstreets Price Guide to Indian Arrowheads. Its put out yearly with tons of pics of about every different point known to exist....along with prices for different stages of condition. I havent gotten one in awhile but a Clovis point in excellent condition was priced at around 20,000 in a guide I have from the 90s.

 

[Copper]

Thanks j.d. in missouri for your comment. I liked it very much.

There may be a way to tell the age. I'll do some checking around and see what I can find. It's obvious that yours are the real thing because you actually found them yourself. But on ebay, who knows?

One neat thing about metal objects is one can tell the age to a large extent by the corrosion of the metal. For example, shipwreck coins and artifacts are literally permeated by salt.

Thanks again and I think your collection is awesome. Keep up the great work.

Copper

 

[spotz]

NIce stuff. Congrats. NO trip to the "Barber Shop" today? Spotz

 

[Copper]

Thanks Zeke for your comments (we were posting at the same time I guess), they are most helpful.

Copper

 

[Ocean7]

stream beds are among best place to find them, and cornfields. Talked to a Am. Indian at a summer crafts fest. who had a big display of arrowheads. Asked where he found them. He told me to sift silt along creeks in areas where Indians were known to be. Cool finds! Wonder if you have any petrified wood out there?

 

[treasure_lady]

Your helper did great! She has a sharp eye!

 

[Copper]

Here's an arrowhead I was given years ago. It was found in southeast Michigan ca. 1930's.

It has a hole bored about halfway into it. The hole is on an angle like it was for a barb.

Can anyone tell me anything about this point? It's about 2 3/4 inches long.

Thanks,

Copper

 

[Talos]

Little kids are excellent treasure hunters. They're lower to the ground, and they try to pick up everything! Coins, arrowheads, used chewing gum, half-eaten candy bars, etc. They key is to set them in "discrimination mode."

 

[j.d. in the usa]

wow got alot of great info thanks guys thanks for the nice comments copper! jd

 

[Zeke]

Here's an arrowhead I was given years ago. It was found in southeast Michigan ca. 1930's.

It has a hole bored about halfway into it. The hole is on an angle like it was for a barb.

Can anyone tell me anything about this point? It's about 2 3/4 inches long.

Thanks,

Copper

Let me find one of my old Overstreets books and I'll try to ID it for you.

 

[ColonialDude]

Real ones will have a patina on the surface of the rock/flint from being in the ground..... Fake ones wont. You can see this on ones found in a plowed field. If the plow hits it and breaks or chips the artifact, it will be shiny where the chip is and duller on the surface. Some rocks take on the patina better than others. Ones made of quartz dont. One way to see this is take a point you have found that is broke in half.......dont do it to a whole point!!!!......and chip it on the edge. Where you chip it will be a totally different color.

Also......it takes a very seasoned flintknapper to produce a good point. The nicer ones(real) will be symetrical and thin. I've seen alot of fakes that are thick and lopsided. And then again......I've saw some modern points that are thin, symetrical, and well made....just didnt have the patina on them.

You have to be careful nowdays as to what you buy. Some points can go into the 5 figure mark according to their age,type, kind of rock, and how well they are made. A good book to get is Overstreets Price Guide to Indian Arrowheads. Its put out yearly with tons of pics of about every different point known to exist....along with prices for different stages of condition. I havent gotten one in awhile but a Clovis point in excellent condition was priced at around 20,000 in a guide I have from the 90s.

While I agree on MOST of your points...some I don't. Most fake points you see are not lopsided and thick. Just the opposite. Most modern made points are very thin, and almost perfect in every way...the high end ones anyhow. On that note, not many people reproduce junk. The goal is to reproduce high grade pieces, usually the high dollar items....clovis points, dovetails, etc. they are usually always larger than the typical point of that type, and made of very high grade materials, etc. While most can't "fake" a patina...some people these days have been doing a pretty darn good job of it.

Anyhow, not many people are going to fake a $10-$15 lopsided, thick, crappy point.

Also, while I agree that by taking a broken point and flaking it, you can see the changes in the material, thus making it easier to compare...but there are so many variations of chert/flint, it's pretty hard to do this for a beginner. Take Flint Ridge for example....there are thousands of colors, lustres, textures, etc. I'd personally found ancient points in the field, that if I hadn't found, I'd almost think they were modren made based on the lustre and how fresh the flakes appeared to be....and I've got 15 years of collecting and archaeology under my belt.

Of course, with time, you begin to see patterns and it's pretty easy to spot most fakes...but there are many damn good knappers out there punching out the fakes....and some are pretty hard to tell!

My biggest disagreement with your post however is "Overstreets" book. It's complete garbage. That series is so full of modern/fake/replicated points it's disgusting. Completely useless for referenece material, and the prices are absurd, and nothing close to what you'd fetch at market.

 

[Copper]

WessThompson
While most can't "fake" a patina...some people these days have been doing a pretty darn good job of it.



So, what would you advise for us novice collectors? Should we all get into finding our own or is there a way to purchase genuine points?

 

[ColonialDude]

So, what would you advise for us novice collectors? Should we all get into finding our own or is there a way to purchase genuine points?

Well, first off, I don't claim to be a pro either..as one can always learn something everyday in this hobby, but I do have a lot of experience....and that just comes with time, and handling artifacts.

There are a few things you can do to better educate yourself and to better arm yourself.

First and foremost, I'd recommend collecting relics from your state or geographical region only...for starters anyhow. Most people do this anyhow, but some collect from all over North America. If you focus on one area though, it won't seem so daunting, and will help a great deal.

Learn the flint types that are in your area...there are a couple of good books out on the subject. Once you know what types of flint to expect in your area....then you need to understand which materials are used with specific point types. Many points are made from the same materials more often than not...ie....you would not buy a vanport point made from Genessee chert/flint....as the chances of it being authentic are slim to none. Here in Ontario, Canada...I wouldn't buy a clovis made from Kettle Point chert...as that material source was under water, and not available to paleo indians...again, pretty much guaranteed to be a fake.

Learn the flaking patterns on specific point types...for example...many paleo pieces have broad parallel flake scars. Not likely you'll find these patterns on a meadowood point from the woodland period.

Get some raw material (chert) from your local area and play around with it as suggested by someone. Flake it. See what the texture, colours, lustre, etc are. You'll start to learn what a fresh flake scar looks like. You'll see the difference between a patinated piece of flint vs. a modern flaked piece.

Attend as many artifact shows as possible. Speak to as many people as you can. View as many collections as you can. Seek out known modern replica's to study and try to look for patterns with modern pieces.

I don't recommend buying any pieces right away...not any pricey items anyhow. E-Bay is loaded with fakes, and buying over the web period is difficult as pictures are not always clear, and sometimes you can't tell authenticity without holding a piece in your hand and looking at it under a magnifying glass. Black lights will help reveal modern work.

If you do buy, as a rule of thumb if the price is too good to be true, it is. This is not ALWAYS the case...but better to be safe than sorry. If you see a birdstone you know would sell for $3000....and the guy asks for $500.00 from you...move on.

It's such a huge topic, with so many points to cover, I am sure I've missed a lot...

I should also mention to join your local archaeological society...a place where you won't see any fakes, and can learn a lot. In the U.S. there are associations for authentic relics...but...some can always slip under the radar.

If you have any quesitons...feel free to ask me...or others who might know. If you have something you want to buy, and are unsure...shoot me an e-mail and some pics and I can help.

Hope this helps a little...and you'll see with time, you'll be pretty well armed. It's all about getting out there and educating yourself. There will always be people who want to make money off of you and rip people off when there is money to be made....sad, but the harsh reliaty of the world we live in.

 

[Copper]

Thanks WessThompson, that was very informative.

I know there are lots of fakes. Years ago one could buy modern reproduction points for 5 cents each. As I recall, some tribe in Arizona was making them by the tens of thousands and selling them to tourists and mailorder companies. I heard they had a machine to make them.

Question: How would one find the most likely places to hunt for arrowheads? Are there historical maps available that show were the largest concentration of tribes were located?