indian relic?? new member needs help IDing...

[Bama Ron]

Could use some help identifying this "indian head". Found this in 1974 in a creek bank running thru my neighborhood in Oak Ridge, Tn. Showed it to the head of archaeology for the state of MS and to Dr. Janet Rafferty at Miss. State Univ., also state Geologist in MS. Dr. Rafferty thought it might be a form of statue art.

Apparently the object is made from "grog"?, not sure of spelling but the same material pottery was made of. The head is life-size and eyes, ears, nose and mouth features are clearly visible though the picture quality is not that good.

I've been to museums from coast to coast and have never seen anything like it. Any opinions and who would be a good person to have it authenticated for me. Appreciate your help.
Bama Ron

 

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[pickaway]

There have been stone human head effigies found.Here in Ohio they link them with the late woodland culture.Sure is neat find.Hopefully someone here will be able to help ya out.Nice find...& welcome the the site.

 

[Flintfinder of Mo.]

Bama, welcome to the forum. I am just blown away by that. It is a killer artifact. I will see what I can dig up on it. I have seen that face before, but I think it was on a pot. thanks for putting it on, very interesting. john

 

[SouthernGirl]

WOW that awesome

 

[SoIll]

My buddy found a head made of flourite, but it's only an inch. If you are wondering if that's real I'd say yeah. Unless you found some points or something with it it would be hard to date. It's either wooodland or mississipian though.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Bama, welcome to the forum. I am just blown away by that. It is a killer artifact. I will see what I can dig up on it. I have seen that face before, but I think it was on a pot. thanks for putting it on, very interesting. john

I've seen that face before too, but it was after some buddies and I had finished off some pot.

Seriously though, that is an awesome looking piece. You can definitely make out the face. I hope you can find out something about it and let us know what you find out. Also, welcome to the board. Hope to see more of your finds.

 

[Bama Ron]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I actually had an archaeologist from the Oak Ridge area that I sent some pictures to tell me that it was a hunk of concrete that had some "features" on it. I know that it's real, I'm just trying to get more information on it. The state archaeologist from MS told me nothing like it has been recovered from MS to his knowledge.

I've been collecting for years in AL, MS, TN, GA, KY and MO and have numerous points, about 1,800 lbs. of petrified wood, fossils and a few Civil War artifacts. I'll put some pics up in the future of my points. Here's a few pics of my wood, found locally in Madison County, MS.

 

[seger98]

Neat find, can't wait to see if John can find anything out about it!

 

[bean man]

WOW! That's cool.

 

[archaeon]

awesome find! face clearly visible, and NOT a geofact in my humble opinion.could be a type of death mask?

 

[Carolina Points]

Very interesting piece, I also can't wait to see what you find out. I don't believe that it is a geofact and I DON"T think its Fake either. Good luck i think any one would have picked it up and done the samething that you are trying to do.
Clint

 

[Neanderthal]

Could use some help identifying this "indian head". Found this in 1974 in a creek bank running thru my neighborhood in Oak Ridge, Tn. Showed it to the head of archaeology for the state of MS and to Dr. Janet Rafferty at Miss. State Univ., also state Geologist in MS. Dr. Rafferty thought it might be a form of statue art.

Apparently the object is made from "grog"?, not sure of spelling but the same material pottery was made of. The head is life-size and eyes, ears, nose and mouth features are clearly visible though the picture quality is not that good.

I've been to museums from coast to coast and have never seen anything like it. Any opinions and who would be a good person to have it authenticated for me. Appreciate your help.
Bama Ron

It's not grog. "Grog" is fired and then ground up pottery, usually used for tempering other pottery. It was especially popular in woodland and Mississippian time periods. I keep looking at the patterns and the features don't look like anything I'm familiar with as being Native American. It may be, it's just not ringing any bells with me from the image.

One possibility is that it's not Native American at all. There have been many clay figures that have been recovered, made by settlers and other folks (especially out of Kaolin clay). Not all crockery vessels, pipes or earthenware ceramics we find were made by the aboriginals. The same for dolls, figurines, game stones, etc, etc, etc.

It may help to see different angles of your item. More information is needed. Is the clay tempered? If so, with what? Has it been fired? Are you sure it's even earthenware? Are there tooling marks?

 

[Cannonman17]

Large clay pieces didn't really lend themselves very well to stautary type artifacts, too often air bubbles in the clay would cause anything of more than moderate thickness to explode when being fired. Grog is just something that they added to new clay vessels to strengthen them, made from ground up older pottery pieces. Interesting looking piece, I would like to see more pics of it for sure.

 

[wannabeafinder]

I know I'm probable wrong about this but the head looks African American to me. The features are strong in the nose which could be Native American but the lips are way off. Could this possible be someone carving a likeness of themself or a lost loved one? Taking history into account could this be a piece that a slave may have started to remember a loved one. Just a thought.

 

[*Molly*]

I know I'm probable wrong about this but the head looks African American to me.

I agree..I hope you find out for sure, interesting no matter which era or person its from.

Molly.

 

[Bama Ron]

I appreciate everyones interest and I'll get it out in a day or so and take some better pictures at some different angles. Several local experts have told me that it is made of grog. It has quartz and silica inclusions that are very evident if you look at the backside which was damaged some years ago. The state geologist (David Dockery) stated that it is definitely not a stone native to TN or MS and he wasn't sure what it was.

There's a crazy story concerning it that explains how it was damaged.

After I found it, it basically sat on a shelf in our den. In 1980 my parents moved to Greenville, AL and unfortuantely got divorced in 1983. As what happens during times like that, things disappear (like my indian head). Neither of my parents claimed to know what happened to it. In 1991 at a family gathering in Greenville the conversation turned to artifacts and the mississing head. At that time another family member stated that a 2nd cousin of mine (AB), who happened to be a local law enforcement officer and artifact collector had a head exactly like the one we were discussing. I immediately called AB, described the head and asked if he had it. He stated that my cousin (CC) had given it to him. Supposedly CC was deer hunting one day, stood on a rock and looked down and noticed the face. My cousin was using it as a door stop for his front door and the damage on back is from sliding back and forth on a hardwood floor for who knows how long. When my law enforcement relative got it, he said my cousin had thrown it out in his yard because he felt like he had experienced "bad luck" since it was in his house. I stated that if he was experiencing bad luck it was because he was a thief and that I would like my head back. AB was reluctant saying it was the centerpiece of his collection at which time I told him that I planned to go to the sheriffs office in the morning and file a stolen property report on it.

AB said come get it. I was there in 10 minutes and I've had it ever since. I've been asked to take it to a local artifact show in Tupelo the first weekend in Feb. Hopefully someone there will have more information on it. Here's a couple of older pics.

 

[Flintfinder of Mo.]

resized

 

[Carolina Points]

Those are really nice artifacts that you have displayed in them 2 frames thanks for showing those as well.
Clint

 

[Jonnyreb]

The material from looking appears to be the stuff a lot of home made brick was made from here in the Southern States before they could aquire factory made bricks. Other than that opinion/thought, I just dont know. I never seen anything like it. I'm sure its old...BTW!! I'd like to see more pics of your points!!
Looks like some killer paleo in there!!

 

[Bama Ron]

I agree the head looks similar to very old brick material. The state geologist stated that it was not a stone native to MS or TN and he couldn't identify it. A couple of local experts said it appeared to be a type of grog material. It could have been made by pioneers or someone long ago of African descent, like someone suggested. Oak Ridge is near Knoxville and alot of history occurred in that part of east tennessee.

The points from the smaller frame I found in the St. Louis - Merrimac River area. The points in the larger frame came from TX, MS and a couple from KY.

Here's a couple of pics of a blade? I bought this past July while on vacation in Wasilla, Alaska at a relic shop. Not sure if it's old but it appears to be. Only paid $50 for it and I mainly value it as a momento of my vacation. The smaller, pink point is my latest find from a gravel bar in a stream adjacent to the Natchez Trace in north mississippi.