It was in the 2nd year of the CONFEDERATE WAR...

[Rebel - KGC]

No....and to quote you on many occasions......"other then speculation, none of it can be directly connected to the Beale Pamphlet story." It is funny what portions of the story people are willing to accept and decline dependent on their personal area of interest. However, in all of it there are no direct connections to the story itself. People are simply picking and choosing what they wish to believe from the dark. Not a single piece of evidence exist to support the story at all. You know this.

So Robert E. Lee knew Buford? No connection to the story at all and yet you have chosen to pretend that there is. Hutter, again, no connection to the story at all, not even a reference, and yet you have chosen to believe that he is connected to the story. In short you are doing exactly the same thing you have often been so vocal about when condeming such stretches of imagination. Just saying....there exist no evidence to support anything beyond a simple dime novel unless you wish to hug the local lore.

WRONG! CONFEDERATE WAR "theory" is VERIFIED by local historical events/people; both Hutter Bros & Ward are descended from J.B. Risque, of "THE DUEL" (Grand-sons). YES, Gen. Robert E. Lee & Paschal Buford were FRIENDS... and US Army Vets; Buford from War of 1812, and Lee from Mexican War. The connections ARE REAL... BUFORD is in the Beale PAPERS. Hutter..? a GRANDSON of JB Risque! "Hugging" the local lore is OK with me... MORE than YOU got, eh...?

 

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[bigscoop]

WRONG! CONFEDERATE WAR "theory" is VERIFIED by local historical events/people; both Hutter Bros & Ward are descended from J.B. Risque, of "THE DUEL" (Grand-sons). YES, Gen. Robert E. Lee & Paschal Buford were FRIENDS... and US Army Vets; Buford from War of 1812, and Lee from Mexican War. The connections ARE REAL... BUFORD is in the Beale PAPERS. Hutter..? a GRANDSON of JB Risque! "Hugging" the local lore is OK with me... MORE than YOU got, eh...?

WRONG! "There is no evidence, in existence anywhere, to support anything other then the dime novel theory. Not a single piece of evidence exist anywhere that can be directly connected to the Beale story." These are the sad facts, my friend. All else is just unsupported chatter, speculation, and wishful thinking. Wish it were otherwise but it isn't.

 

[ECS]

WRONG! "There is no evidence, in existence anywhere, to support anything other then the dime novel theory. Not a single piece of evidence exist anywhere that can be directly connected to the Beale story." These are the sad facts, my friend. All else is just unsupported chatter, speculation, and wishful thinking. Wish it were otherwise but it isn't.

You have taken us through the Adams-Oni- Champ d' Asile- Lallemand- Lafitte- Girard- Patterson- Bonaparte- opium mystery tour of the Beale Papers with NO supporting evidence for the French connection theory except for the use of the word "connexion". Is that not considered unsupported chatter, speculation, and wishful thinking?
The two principal characters and the "unknown author" are Virginians, the Beale Papers were copyrighted, printed, published by Virginians, to be advertised and sold to a localized community of Virginians. Those are the basic facts of the 1885 Beale Papers.

 

[bigscoop]

You have taken us through the Adams-Oni- Champ d' Asile- Lallemand- Lafitte- Girard- Patterson- Bonaparte- opium mystery tour of the Beale Papers with NO supporting evidence for the French connection theory except for the use of the word "connexion". Is that not considered unsupported chatter, speculation, and wishful thinking?
The two principal characters and the "unknown author" are Virginians, the Beale Papers were copyrighted, printed, published by Virginians, to be advertised and sold to a localized community of Virginians. Those are the basic facts of the 1885 Beale Papers.

To be even more accurate, we have no idea who the unknown author/author was, none at all. For all that is "known" he/they could have been from anywhere. We only know who's name is on the copyright but this in no way insures that he was in fact the original author. You can "assume" Ward was the author but that can't be proven and might even be wrong as many copyrights are owned by second parties. So when you really get down to "the facts" there's really nothing to support much of anything. You're only assuming to know who wrote the tale and why and how they wrote it.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

To be even more accurate, we have no idea who the unknown author/author was, none at all. For all that is "known" he/they could have been from anywhere. We only know who's name is on the copyright but this in no way insures that he was in fact the original author. You can "assume" Ward was the author but that can't be proven and might even be wrong as many copyrights are owned by second parties. So when you really get down to "the facts" there's really nothing to support much of anything. You're only assuming to know who wrote the tale and why and how they wrote it.

"TRUISM" in TH'ing/R & I: When YOU, "Scoop" have NOTHING to REALLY "say"... start attacking others. I have ENOUGH local proof, and I'm sticking with it. STOP the attacks!

 

[bigscoop]

"TRUISM" in TH'ing/R & I: When YOU, "Scoop" have NOTHING to REALLY "say"... start attacking others. I have ENOUGH local proof, and I'm sticking with it. STOP the attacks!

I don't know what you see as attacks? I'm simply being that same devil's advocate that all of you have so often been throughout all of these threads. No attacks at all, just pointing out the entire lack of supporting evidence to any of the existing theories. You can call it whatever you wish but word of mouth and lore and hearsay does not establish any measure of fact. If it did then there would be 100 accurate solutions to the tale and most of the great legends would be long since solved.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I don't know what you see as attacks? I'm simply being that same devil's advocate that all of you have so often been throughout all of these threads. No attacks at all, just pointing out the entire lack of supporting evidence to any of the existing theories. You can call it whatever you wish but word of mouth and lore and hearsay does not establish any measure of fact. If it did then there would be 100 accurate solutions to the tale and most of the great legends would be long since solved.

LOL! You want FACTS...? Will try from FACTS in History; FACT ONE: Major Ferdinand C. Hutter was CSA PAYMASTER, from Lynchburg, worked in Richmond, Va. AND! In the "SECOND Year, of the Confederate War", RM told the author of the Beale PAPERS, "The SECRET"... AND! The Author was SUDDENLY called to Richmond, Va. Sounds like Maj. F. C. Hutter, being called to Richmond, Va. for an emergency; was it 1862, or 1863...? FACT TWO: Maj. Edward S. Hutter was in Danville, Va.; saved Vattel's LAW OF NATIONS (SECRET Book of CSA Gov't), bringing it to Lynchburg, Va. FACT THREE: Both Hutter Bros, & James B. Ward are GRAND-sons of James Beverly Risque. MORE, later... on what the Hutter Bros. were doing in Lynchburg, Va., after the CONFEDERATE WAR... FACTS!

 

[ECS]

...
The two principal characters and the "unknown author" are Virginians, the Beale Papers were copyrighted, printed, published by Virginians, to be advertised and sold to a localized community of Virginians. Those are the basic facts of the 1885 Beale Papers.

Whether the BEALE PAPERS are a dime novel with ciphers or a cover story for another event, the job pamphlet is about Virginians with Virginia locations and was originally sold and advertised in only one Virginia town.
The "unknown author" could have provided a date for that meeting with Morriss, but , instead, made a reference, on purpose, to the CONFEDERATE WAR.

 

[bigscoop]

Whether the BEALE PAPERS are a dime novel with ciphers or a cover story for another event, the job pamphlet is about Virginians with Virginia locations and was originally sold and advertised in only one Virginia town.
The "unknown author" could have provided a date for that meeting with Morriss, but , instead, made a reference, on purpose, to the CONFEDERATE WAR.

Sure, but that's pure speculation, nothing more. I gotta tell you, and this after many-many years of research and investigation in several different areas......today I'm of the mind that Sherman wrote the Beale Pamphlet and that he simply passed the copyright onto Ward to deflect the attention away from himself and his long history of writing such works. It really doesn't matter where/how Sherman came across the idea for the pamphlet but in my mind it is the only theory that has any legs.

 

[ECS]

....today I'm of the mind that Sherman wrote the Beale Pamphlet and that he simply passed the copyright onto Ward to deflect the attention away from himself and his long history of writing such works. It really doesn't matter where/how Sherman came across the idea for the pamphlet but in my mind it is the only theory that has any legs.

Which brings back to the extended family whose only history with Beale began with the duel with Risqué, and with Pascal Buford during the Battle of New Orleans. After that?
Who is the real protagonist of the Beale Papers-Beale, Morriss, or the "unknown author".
The story of Beale really begins in the 2nd year of the Confederate War, when Morriss divulges the tale to the "unknown author" who transcends into penury in search of the treasure.
20 years after the end of the Confederate War(1865), he presents the story to Ward who secures the copyright, has copies printed by Sherman, who advertises the work for sale for 50 cents ONLY in his Lynchberg newspaper.
Why did the "unknown author" wait for 20 years after the Confederate War to reveal his tale?
From 1865, Federal troops enforced Reconstruction throughout the South until US President Hayes withdrew the last troops, April 1877, ending that era of holding Dixie down.
Remember, after Lee's surrender, all assets of the Confederacy became the property of the United States government.

 

[ECS]

Sherman was James Beverly Wards Uncle.Another question is why James Beverly Ward's father, Giles Ward could have been the author of the Job Print Pamphlet. Then Giles could have passed the story down to his son JBW.

James Beverly Ward's mother was Adeline Eliza Risqué, daughter of James Beverly Risqué and wife Elizabeth Kennerly.

 

[bigscoop]

Look, all of these family connections mean nothing in the big picture as none of it can be directly connected to the Beale pamphlet by any means other then speculation. You can continue to try to suggest all the connections you wish but the bottom line is that it's all pure speculation. After 125 years the only thing that remains is a simple dime novel.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Look, all of these family connections mean nothing in the big picture as none of it can be directly connected to the Beale pamphlet by any means other then speculation. You can continue to try to suggest all the connections you wish but the bottom line is that it's all pure speculation. After 125 years the only thing that remains is a simple dime novel.

HA! What do YOU have, eh...?

 

[ECS]

Look, all of these family connections mean nothing in the big picture as none of it can be directly connected to the Beale pamphlet by any means other then speculation. You can continue to try to suggest all the connections you wish but the bottom line is that it's all pure speculation. After 125 years the only thing that remains is a simple dime novel.

There had to be a purpose of mentioning Buford's Inn and Robert Morriss, as well as the Confederate War by the "unknown author"- why else would those related to Buford and Morriss who copyrighted, printed and published for sale, include those names in the Beale Paper tale.
The family connection MUST mean something!

 

[bigscoop]

There had to be a purpose of mentioning Buford's Inn and Robert Morriss, as well as the Confederate War by the "unknown author"- why else would those related to Buford and Morriss who copyrighted, printed and published for sale, include those names in the Beale Paper tale.
The family connection MUST mean something!

Or just as easily not. Could be the unknown author made mention of the second year of the war simply because that's when he first learned the secret, just as he claims in the pamphlet. No big mystery here, no other reason for making mention of it unless you create it all on your own, just as you have done. Morriss, Bufords, why not use them to craft the story? A lot of fiction novels use known landmarks and known residential resources in the crafting of their tales. What makes you think the Beale Pamphlet was any different? Absolutely nothing connecting any of it to the Beale pamphlet beyond what is in the pamphlet. Not one shred of supporting evidence anywhere to suggest that it was anything other then a simple dime novel. And we all know this.....something you've often pointed out yourself.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Or just as easily not. Could be the unknown author made mention of the second year of the war simply because that's when he first learned the secret, just as he claims in the pamphlet. No big mystery here, no other reason for making mention of it unless you create it all on your own, just as you have done. Morriss, Bufords, why not use them to craft the story? A lot of fiction novels use known landmarks and known residential resources in the crafting of their tales. What makes you think the Beale Pamphlet was any different? Absolutely nothing connecting any of it to the Beale pamphlet beyond what is in the pamphlet. Not one shred of supporting evidence anywhere to suggest that it was anything other then a simple dime novel. And we all know this.....something you've often pointed out yourself.

BEYOND the "BP"...? HA! We DO have "supporting evidence"... it is called local, FACTS in history; MORE than YOU have for your "French connections", eh...? Know why it is NOT a "Dime Store novel"...? Have you SEEN one from "back then"...? ALL DSN are ILLUSTRATED! "BP" is NOT illustrated... NO "treasure map... NOTHING! Ciphers...? BAH! Just RUSES... it is a CONFEDERATE SECRET SERVICE "thing"... you wouldn't understand.

 

[bigscoop]

BEYOND the "BP"...? HA! We DO have "supporting evidence"... it is called local, FACTS in history; MORE than YOU have for your "French connections", eh...? Know why it is NOT a "Dime Store novel"...? Have you SEEN one from "back then"...? ALL DSN are ILLUSTRATED! "BP" is NOT illustrated... NO "treasure map... NOTHING! Ciphers...? BAH! Just RUSES... it is a CONFEDERATE SECRET SERVICE "thing"... you wouldn't understand.

I appreciate what you're saying Reb, but all the same there is absolutely nothing to support any of it beyond "pure speculation." There is absolutely nothing to support all the local lore other then he-said-she-said and most of this coming from sources that have profited from the tale in one way or the other. All of this has to be set to the side for obvious reasons and once it has been there is nothing that remains to support any of the claims. Point is simply this....regardless what theory you choose to support there's nothing concrete to support the theory, nothing that can be directly connected to the story. "It's all just pure speculation and wishful thinking."

And Sherman wrote several dime novels, some of those even revolving around treasure which was a common theme of his. By having Ward act as the agent Sherman was probably hoping the local traffic wouldn't connect him to the creating of the tale which would likely expose the fictional work and kill potential sales. Locally they have squeezed every ounce of life out of the story but in the end there is absolutely nothing to support an of the local lore and legend. You can claim Confederate Secret Service cover up but it is simply another in a long line of unsupported claims. Absolutely nothing to connect this theory to the Beale Pamphlet story whatsoever. And those are just the only old hard facts surrounding the Beale pamphlet story. All else has been created from the minds of men. Wish it wasn't so but it is.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I appreciate what you're saying Reb, but all the same there is absolutely nothing to support any of it beyond "pure speculation." There is absolutely nothing to support all the local lore other then he-said-she-said and most of this coming from sources that have profited from the tale in one way or the other. All of this has to be set to the side for obvious reasons and once it has been there is nothing that remains to support any of the claims. Point is simply this....regardless what theory you choose to support there's nothing concrete to support the theory, nothing that can be directly connected to the story. "It's all just pure speculation and wishful thinking."

And Sherman wrote several dime novels, some of those even revolving around treasure which was a common theme of his. By having Ward act as the agent Sherman was probably hoping the local traffic wouldn't connect him to the creating of the tale which would likely expose the fictional work and kill potential sales. Locally they have squeezed every ounce of life out of the story but in the end there is absolutely nothing to support an of the local lore and legend. You can claim Confederate Secret Service cover up but it is simply another in a long line of unsupported claims. Absolutely nothing to connect this theory to the Beale Pamphlet story whatsoever. And those are just the only old hard facts surrounding the Beale pamphlet story. All else has been created from the minds of men. Wish it wasn't so but it is.

And SO! UNsupported claims for the "French Connection", too; eh...?

 

[bigscoop]

And SO! UNsupported claims for the "French Connection", too; eh...?

Nope.....and that's just it. There's no supporting evidence to anything beyond a simple dime novel. All else has simply been created by the minds of men in their pursuit of something more. It's like claiming solution to the remaining ciphers. It's all in one's own head and nowhere else.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Nope.....and that's just it. There's no supporting evidence to anything beyond a simple dime novel. All else has simply been created by the minds of men in their pursuit of something more. It's like claiming solution to the remaining ciphers. It's all in one's own head and nowhere else.

SIMPLE DSN...? NO copies around here... your "French connections" in DSN...?