It was in the 2nd year of the CONFEDERATE WAR...

[Rebel - KGC]

SO! RM gave "THE SECRET" to the "unknown" author of the "JOB PRINT" (Maj. FC Hutter, in MHO) in the 2nd Year of the CONFEDERATE WAR, then died at the home of his niece, Mrs. David Saunders... in 1863; a WIDOW!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[franklin]

SO! RM gave "THE SECRET" to the "unknown" author of the "JOB PRINT" (Maj. FC Hutter, in MHO) in the 2nd Year of the CONFEDERATE WAR, then died at the home of his niece, Mrs. David Saunders... in 1863; a WIDOW!

The problem with all of this is David Saunders wife lived in Bedford County. How did Robert Morriss die in Lynchburg, Va on Rosalyn Street at her home? She was in the 1830, 1840, 1850 and 1860 Census of Bedford County as living in the Northern Section of the County.

If we could find her farm maybe Robert Morriss is buried there.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

COULD be that being widowed (since June, 1851), she had the L'burg Roslyn Street/Place, in 1863, too... dunno. WHERE in the northern part of B'ford County...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OK, R & I indicates The "Farm" MAY have been Pleasant Grove on Kantz's Corner Road; the "Manse" was still standing, & the Saunders Family Cemetery is there; you can do a "Find-a-Grave" for Col. David Saunders (Sr.) and see the family cemetery; THIS info comes from BEDFORD'S VILLAGES: Lost & Found by The Peaks of Otter DAR. It is between Bedford City & Owen's Market on Rt. 460 EAST, going towards L'burg from B'ford; KCR is on your RIGHT...
is DS, Jr. there...? Is RM...? ROAD TRIP!

 

[ECS]

It may be because that was the type of pots that were found washed out on North Goose Creek back during the forties or fifties.

The Goose Creek in Kentucky?
Salt Making Clay County, KY
Goose Creek Salt Works Village

 

[ECS]

SO! RM gave "THE SECRET" to the "unknown" author of the "JOB PRINT" (Maj. FC Hutter, in MHO) in the 2nd Year of the CONFEDERATE WAR, then died at the home of his niece, Mrs. David Saunders... in 1863; a WIDOW!

Robert Morris's niece, Anzoletta (Angeline) Warwick Saunders had five children, four boys, one girl.
The youngest in 1863, was John M W Saunders at age 16, the next, Daniel J W Saunders , 21.
Were either of them present when the "unknown author" was given the Beale story letters and ciphers by Robert Morriss during the "2nd year of the Confederate War"?
Did Robert Morriss ever share the Beale story with any member of the Saunders family, they were his caretakers during his last years, if not, WHY?
...AND, did the members of this Saunders KNOW the "unknown author"?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ALL good questions... I don't remember RM showing ANYTHING; just telling THE SECRET. UK if RM shared ANYTHING with the rest of the Saunders family; not "privy" to that info...? Dunno if the UK author was known to the rest of the Saunders family... NOTHING indicated. Just a "story" by JW Sherman...?

 

[ECS]

Sarah Morriss died at the Ward house, Harriet Otey Ward knew the Morriss's since childhood and J B Ward was a nephew of the Morriss's by marriage, which leads to other good questions.
Why was Robert Morriss at the widow Saunders's house, and not at Ward's?
Was there any relationship to the Ward's and Saunders?
Did James Beverly Ward know the "unknown author" during the "2nd year of the Confederate War" , which was 20years before he was presented with the completed Beale Papers manuscript by the "unknown author"?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I do not think that "JB" Ward EVER saw the "completed" JOB PRINT; I think that John William Sherman wrote it ALL up after interviewing Maj. Ferdinand Hutter (CSA), who got THE SECRET from RM... LOTS of "extra" info was gained from TRUE, AUTHENTIC Tales of the WEST that THE "INNER" COMMITTEE of family & friends of RM, who died in 1863... put together in @ 1882. The VARIOUS "style" of "authorship" compiled into one by JW Sherman of THE VIRGINIAN (C. Button) indicate that. (Male/Female "viewpoint" like "MANLY BEAUTY" from Anne Royall). The part on Robert Morriss is STRICTLY Mrs. Cabell... other "hints" prevail. ALL MHO. AND! YES, "JB" Ward DID know Maj. Ferdinand Hutter... they were COUSINS! 1865, CONFEDERATE WAR is over; 20 years later, THE SECRET is released in 1885. Hmmm... MAYBE, a Robert MORRIS/James David Saunders is "Key", dunno

 

[ECS]

Are referencing Anne Newport Royall for the "manly beauty" description of Thomas Beale?

 

[Garry]

Sarah Morriss died at the Ward house, Harriet Otey Ward knew the Morriss's since childhood and J B Ward was a nephew of the Morriss's by marriage, which leads to other good questions.
Why was Robert Morriss at the widow Saunders's house, and not at Ward's?
Was there any relationship to the Ward's and Saunders?
Did James Beverly Ward know the "unknown author" during the "2nd year of the Confederate War" , which was 20years before he was presented with the completed Beale Papers manuscript by the "unknown author"?

I have often wondered why Sarah Moriss’s burial was paid for by James Beverly Ward. What was their connection?

ECS wrote: “J B Ward was a nephew of the Morriss's by marriage”. This certainly piqued my interest! I may be misreading something and I wanted to make sure I’m not missing something.

As I read the statement it appears to me the following would apply.

If James Beverly Ward was a nephew by marriage, it would mean that his wife Harriet Emeline Otey was a niece of the Morriss’s?

I have Harriet Emeline Otey’s parents as John Buford Otey and Angelina M Brown??

If the above is true it seems we have four possibilities that make Harriet Emeline Otey a niece of the Morriss’s.

1. Robert Morris is John Buford Otey’s brother.

2. Robert Morris is Angelina M Brown’s brother.

3. Sarah Morris is John Buford Otey’s sister.

4. Sarah Morris is Angelina M Brown’s sister.

None of these possibilities seem likely to me and I would appreciate any clarification of exactly how James Beverly Ward is a nephew by marriage to the Morriss’s and where I’m off the track with my interpretation.

The best candidate in my eyes might be that Sarah Morriss’s sister is Angelina M Brown but that would seem to contradict the belief that Sarah’s Morriss’s maiden name was Mitchell. I haven’t found or been shown any document that Sarah’s maiden name was Mitchell although it seems to be widely accepted.

Thanks, Garry

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Are referencing Anne Newport Royall for the "manly beauty" description of Thomas Beale?

Correct.

 

[ECS]

I have often wondered why Sarah Moriss’s burial was paid for by James Beverly Ward. What was their connection?

ECS wrote: “J B Ward was a nephew of the Morriss's by marriage”. This certainly piqued my interest! I may be misreading something and I wanted to make sure I’m not missing something...

If James Beverly Ward was a nephew by marriage, it would mean that his wife Harriet Emeline Otey was a niece of the Morriss’s?...
None of these possibilities seem likely to me and I would appreciate any clarification of exactly how James Beverly Ward is a nephew by marriage to the Morriss’s and where I’m off the track with my interpretation...

Those are very good questions, Garry.
Another member who had done the research told me that Robert Morriss was Ward's uncle by marriage and I accepted that as fact. Maybe I should have questioned his information as some has become suspect.
What we do know is that Ward's wife, Harriet knew the Morriss's since her childhood being raised 4 miles from Buford's.
The Ward's also gave their children a related "family" name for a middle name-Ella RISQUE Ward 1844, Ferdinand KENNERLY Ward 1852, and Annie MORRISS Ward 1853, who married William Johns who worked at ADAMS BROS & PAYNES on whose letterhead James Beverly Ward applied for copyright of the Beale Papers.

Angelina M Brown's parents were Shadrack Brown and Hannah Mitchell Brown, Sarah Mitchell was Hannah's sister. Harriet Emmeline Otey Ward called Sarah Mitchell Morriss "aunt", and that seems to be how Robert Morris was Ward's uncle by marriage.

Dr Thomas Mitchell of Bedford county married Ann Dandridge Saunders in 1826, the daughter of Col David Saunders, and built the manse, OAKLAND for her. They had one son, John Saunders Mitchell.
Anzoletta's husband, David Saunders was the brother of Ann Dandridge Saunders Mitchell.

 

[Garry]

Those are very good questions, Garry.
Another member who had done the research told me that Robert Morriss was Ward's uncle by marriage and I accepted that as fact. Maybe I should have questioned his information as some has become suspect.
What we do know is that Ward's wife, Harriet knew the Morriss's since her childhood being raised 4 miles from Buford's.
The Ward's also gave their children a related "family" name for a middle name-Ella RISQUE Ward 1844, Ferdinand KENNERLY Ward 1852, and Annie MORRISS Ward 1853, who married William Johns who worked at ADAMS BROS & PAYNES on whose letterhead James Beverly Ward applied for copyright of the Beale Papers.

Angelina M Brown's parents were Shadrack Brown and Hannah Mitchell Brown, Sarah Mitchell was Hannah's sister. Harriet Emmeline Otey Ward called Sarah Mitchell Morriss "aunt", and that seems to be how Robert Morris was Ward's uncle by marriage.

Dr Thomas Mitchell of Bedford county married Ann Dandridge Saunders in 1826, the daughter of Col David Saunders, and built the manse, OAKLAND for her. They had one son, John Saunders Mitchell.
Anzoletta's husband, David Saunders was the brother of Ann Dandridge Saunders Mitchell.

ECS,

Thanks for the reply and the updates.

I've been avoiding digging too deeply into the Otey genealogy. I've worked with "Our Kin" but there are a lot of holes and from the family trees I'm seeing, there is also a lot of confusion and a lack of solid sources in most of the online trees.

Anyway I'll try again.

You noted that "Angelina M Brown's parents were Shadrack Brown and Hannah Mitchell Brown, Sarah Mitchell was Hannah's sister" Of course Angelina M Brown was Harriet Otey's mother and James Beverly Ward's mother-in-law. That would be a pretty good connection.

Lots to chew on.

Thanks again,

Garry

 

[ECS]

...

You noted that "Angelina M Brown's parents were Shadrack Brown and Hannah Mitchell Brown, Sarah Mitchell was Hannah's sister" Of course Angelina M Brown was Harriet Otey's mother and James Beverly Ward's mother-in-law. That would be a pretty good connection...

That does explain why Harriet Emmaline Ward's Aunt Sarah was at the residence of James Beverly Ward at her time of passing.

 

[ECS]

...

You noted that "Angelina M Brown's parents were Shadrack Brown and Hannah Mitchell Brown, Sarah Mitchell was Hannah's sister" Of course Angelina M Brown was Harriet Otey's mother and James Beverly Ward's mother-in-law. That would be a pretty good connection...

Sarah Mitchell Morriss was present during the Beale visits mentioned in the job pamphlet, and would have known about the iron box, the letters, and the ciphers.
It is very possible that Sarah told the Ward's what she knew about the Beale story a few years before Robert Morriss told his tale to the "unknown author" while at the widow Saunders house.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Sarah Mitchell Morriss was present during the Beale visits mentioned in the job pamphlet, and would have known about the iron box, the letters, and the ciphers.
It is very possible that Sarah told the Ward's what she knew about the Beale story a few years before Robert Morriss told his tale to the "unknown author" while at the widow Saunders house.

When did Sarah Mitchell Morriss die & where is she buried...? When did Robert Morriss die & where is he buried...?

 

[Garry]

That does explain why Harriet Emmaline Ward's Aunt Sarah was at the residence of James Beverly Ward at her time of passing.

I apologize for the genealogy posts that probably bore most of you to death. My justification is that Robert Morris along with Thomas Beale are the two most prominent figures in the Beale treasure pamphlet. Robert, we know is a real person and Thomas Beale, we’re not at all sure about.

I think the more “facts” we can uncover, regarding Robert’s life, the better understanding we will have of his possible involvement in the story. No more of my soapbox!

I did a rough and dirty search on Shadrack Brown and his family. We find the following marriage.

Shadrack Brown married Hannah Mitchell on October 18, 1887 in Bedford County, Virginia. (Some indicate that they believe the date was actually October 15). They were married by James Mitchel and the record identifies Hannah Mitchell as the daughter of John Isaac Mitchell.

So far so good.

In our scenario, we have Hannah and Sarah Morriss as sisters. This would mean that Hannah and Sarah Morriss's father was John Isaac Mitchell.

We also have Shadrack and Hannah’s daughter as Angelina M Brown (Mother of Harriett Emeline Otey)

Looking a little farther, we find that Shadrack Brown and Hannah had left Bedford and were living in Abbeville, South Carolina by 1800 and on February18, 1815 Shadrack wrote his will in which he named Hannah Brown as his wife and he named his two children. The will was entered into probate on March 2, 1815 in Abbeville.

I’m posting a portion Shadrack’s will that names his wife and two children.

Source: Abbeville, South Carolina - Index and Will, Vol 1, 1787-1815 (Ancestry.com)



The problem is that there is no mention of a daughter, Angelina M. Brown, which is critical to our scenario. I didn’t pursue the father of Hannah Mitchell and the alleged sister, Sarah Mitchell Morris since it appears to me we are on a false path.

There are numerous Mitchells and Browns that show up in the Bedford marriage records and I could find no compelling reason why Shadrack and Hannah were singled out to tie Angelina and Sarah to Shadrack and Hannah other than the fact that we have the Brown name and the Mitchell name being joined.

I could be wrong and I hope that if anyone who has additional information or different thoughts, they will share them.

Garry

 

[ECS]

...

Angelina M Brown's parents were Shadrack Brown and Hannah Mitchell Brown, Sarah Mitchell was Hannah's sister. Harriet Emmeline Otey Ward called Sarah Mitchell Morriss "aunt", and that seems to be how Robert Morris was Ward's uncle by marriage...

What is interesting is that there were several Shadrack Browns and Hannah Mitchells in several state during the time period of the Beale Papers, but Hannah and Sarah were the daughters of John Issac Mitchell of Bedford county, Virginia.
Hannah Mitchell Brown, Sarah's sister, was born in 1760 and died 1848 in Bedford county, Virginia.
http://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/john-issac-mitchell_31260416
http://www.bufordfamilies.com/Buford Henry.htm

 

[Garry]

What is interesting is that there were several Shadrack Browns and Hannah Mitchells in several state during the time period of the Beale Papers, but Hannah and Sarah were the daughters of John Issac Mitchell of Bedford county, Virginia.
Hannah Mitchell Brown, Sarah's sister, was born in 1760 and died 1848 in Bedford county, Virginia.
http://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/john-issac-mitchell_31260416
Henry Buford

ECS,

Interesting links! They will certainly help me flesh out my Buford and Otey Trees.

I found it interesting that Hannah Mitchell had a sister Sarah Mitchell. Maybe nothing (Sarah was a very common name for the time period) but worth looking into.

Thanks,

Garry